Curious about the KP for Lowry trade proposal. Would it be a straight up deal or would Toronto throw in draft capital?
Also, if THJ wants to go to Miami, would you consider a sign and trade of THJ for Dragic and Oladipo?
How about Brunson and 2022 2nd round pick for Mitchell Robinson and 2023 1st round pick (either our pick back or their own...least favorable)?
We sign Richaun Holmes and Norman Powell with salary cap space
Luka
Lowry
N. Powell
DFS
Holmes
Dragic
Oladipo
Green
Maxi
Robinson
D. Powell and T. Terry rounding out the bench
Still have rMLE at your disposal
To me, that's a contender for an NBA championship. A mix of youth and veterans. We would also have the ability to make future trades by getting draft capital from Toronto and New York.
(07-26-2021, 08:06 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]So if there's no KP trade, we probably have about $20 million to sign another playmaker. We can bump that to about $21.5 million if we dump Burke somewhere. Is that enough for someone like Conley?
I have it at $20.6 and no, that isn't enough for Conley. I have heard two national guys say they could see JRich being attractive to Utah. I think they need a PG more than a two, but Utah has a limited ability to do anything if Conley leaves.
3 days until the draft; 7 until free agency opens.
(07-26-2021, 08:10 AM)Mavs03 Wrote: [ -> ]Curious about the KP for Lowry trade proposal. Would it be a straight up deal or would Toronto throw in draft capital?
Also, if THJ wants to go to Miami, would you consider a sign and trade of THJ for Dragic and Oladipo?
How about Brunson and 2022 2nd round pick for Mitchell Robinson and 2023 1st round pick (either our pick back or their own...least favorable)?
We sign Richaun Holmes and Norman Powell with salary cap space
Luka
Lowry
N. Powell
DFS
Holmes
Dragic
Oladipo
Green
Maxi
Robinson
D. Powell and T. Terry rounding out the bench
Still have rMLE at your disposal
To me, that's a contender for an NBA championship. A mix of youth and veterans. We would also have the ability to make future trades by getting draft capital from Toronto and New York.
You can't S&T THJ while signing Holmes and Powell with cap space.
Just a thought experiment. What about the process Mavs edition. In the unlikely scenario that they can add Leonard and he is out for the season. Trade KP for the best possible picks and young players. Use the year to develop the young players. Kawhi comes back and you have a young and talented team with two superstars and a bunch of rookie contracts.
Is this a big no because Luka wants to win now? Or acceptable because it would increase the chances to win in the next 3-5 years.
(07-26-2021, 08:06 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]So if there's no KP trade, we probably have about $20 million to sign another playmaker. We can bump that to about $21.5 million if we dump Burke somewhere. Is that enough for someone like Conley?
So based on Dan's math, JRich opting in would be another player in addition to Conley which would leave 35.5 minus 11.6 available, which is roughly 24 mil. That would allow you to sign him for roughly 3/78. I think if Utah lets him go, that is in ballpark of his market.
(07-26-2021, 09:39 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Just a thought experiment. What about the process Mavs edition. In the unlikely scenario that they can add Leonard and he is out for the season. Trade KP for the best possible picks and young players. Use the year to develop the young players. Kawhi comes back and you have a young and talented team with two superstars and a bunch of rookie contracts.
Is this a big no because Luka wants to win now? Or acceptable because it would increase the chances to win in the next 3-5 years.
I have been hoping they'd think this way for the past 2-3 seasons (I think they found Luka too quickly, and he got too good too quickly, in a way). That's why I was so excited when they opted to carry four (4!) rookies last season.
But, he really is ready now, and it's getting clearer by the day. They almost beat the best team in the Western Conference in round 1, imo. I think they're actually better than we realize. I think it's probably time to think more in terms of "now"...for better or worse. Once Luka signs that extension, the clock really does start to tick.
(07-26-2021, 09:39 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Just a thought experiment. What about the process Mavs edition. In the unlikely scenario that they can add Leonard and he is out for the season. Trade KP for the best possible picks and young players. Use the year to develop the young players. Kawhi comes back and you have a young and talented team with two superstars and a bunch of rookie contracts.
Is this a big no because Luka wants to win now? Or acceptable because it would increase the chances to win in the next 3-5 years.
The biggest issue with this plan is getting picks and quality young players for KP. Right now people are excited abut an S&T trade for Lowry, which is a complete salary dump. In fact most folks proposed a Kawhi for KP S&T if we managed to get Kawhi. It's possible that many of us are completely undervaluing KP right now, but most likely at best he is a neutral asset.
(07-26-2021, 09:43 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I have been hoping they'd think this way for the past 2-3 seasons (I think they found Luka too quickly, and he got too good too quickly, in a way). That's why I was so excited when they opted to carry four (4!) rookies last season.
But, he really is ready now, and it's getting clearer by the day. They almost beat the best team in the Western Conference in round 1, imo. I think they're actually better than we realize. I think it's probably time to think more in terms of "now"...for better or worse. Once Luka signs that extension, the clock really does start to tick.
My thoughts as well. They should have done it when they drafted Luka. Now it would really hurt to sacrify one of Luka´s early prime seasons to make up for it.
On the other hand. The free agent market this summer is not really tempting me at all. Wouldn´t be upset if they use capspace to add some young talent.
In the end it is not going to happen anway. They did not add guys like Harrison to slow down the roster building process around Luka. He was added to land the big names.
(07-26-2021, 09:53 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Wouldn´t be upset if they use capspace to add some young talent.
I'll probably be for "adding young talent" until Luka is in his 30's, myself. That's a broad scope though.
I think young players who are already usable in the playoffs are exactly what you want. I'm just not interested in giving playoff rotation players up for chances at the draft roulette wheel is all.
Now, if they HAD picks already, I might still hope they take those spins - not sure. I just think it would be counterproductive to give away actual players for picks right now.
I´m ready for The Nicocess. I don´t read too much into anything at the moment. We don´t know what they are thinking. Draft night will be the first indication of where this might be headed. Just adding a pick would be unusual. Making an early decision on Brunson would be unusual. Trading Kleber for a pick to clear space for a Collins/Markkanen could be a move? And there is always the possibility that they actually do move Porzingis.
(07-26-2021, 09:36 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]You can't S&T THJ while signing Holmes and Powell with cap space.
Well if that's the case, I wonder if Dragic would consider coming to Dallas for the rMLE?
Luka
Lowry
N. Powell
DFS
Holmes
Dragic
Terry
Green
Kleber
Robinson
D. Powell, T. Bey, and N. Hinton rounding out the bench
I love our starting 5.
(07-26-2021, 10:40 AM)Mavs03 Wrote: [ -> ]Well if that's the case, I wonder if Dragic would consider coming to Dallas for the rMLE?
Luka
Lowry
N. Powell
DFS
Holmes
Dragic
Terry
Green
Kleber
Robinson
D. Powell, T. Bey, and N. Hinton rounding out the bench
I love our starting 5.
I'm not sure why he would want to with Luka and Lowry already on the roster? I mean you are probably staggering those two and always have one on the court. He can probably get the MLE somewhere and be more involved in running an offense.
Also, Lowery is a win now move. Not sure we would want to trade Brunson (who is the only high quality shooter on the bench) for Robinson, who is a bit of a project. A starting frontcourt of Holmes/DFS backed up by Powell/Maxi seems just fine to me.
(07-26-2021, 06:06 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Someone who not only has great PPP on plays rolling to the rim, but someone who
1) sets great screens,
2) changes the entire spacing of the floor with his "roll gravity,"
3) is not switchable against (you can't put a smaller player on him without getting punished), AND
4) knows how to make himself available when the ball handler is doubled on the screen.
I know what he does. I just doubt that you need to pay 15M/year for this skill or that the rim-roller makes the guard, rather than the other way around. It´s not Dwight Powell that makes Luka. If the other team wanted Powell to have zero points, they´d do it. If the other team doesn´t want Luka to have 60, then Powell gets five open dunks.
If you are getting called an elite rim-roller, it´s basically a backhanded compliment, cause it usually means that you can´t shoot, play great defense and are completely reliant on your team mates getting you easy buckets.
Yeah you are still pretty good at something in basketball, that is why people want to give you five million dollars to do it. But they don´t want to give you 15M or 25M dollars, unless it comes with offensive (shooting) talent or elite defense.
So since we already overpay Dwight Powell for his services, there is no way we can even consider adding another center at more than a rookie salary. We have already committed 42M to Porzingis/Powell. If you add another 15 for Holmes, we pay over half our available money to three centers, while we have one guy on the whole roster that can create off the dribble for himself and others.
I literally think that trading KP for a 33-34 year old Kyle Lowry is nuts. I really do.... It seems that these KP trades just are going down the hole of "well, if we can get a can of beans for him, let's do it." Oh my word. (I don't think that Kyle Lowry is a can of beans, but I'm talking about the direction these trades are heading toward.)
I like Kyle Lowry and I'd love to have him on this team, but I'm not giving him $25-30 mill/year, as Woj predicts his contract will be.
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...50017?s=20
I think if we come out of the off-season with Lowry as our big signing, we are in for Luka leaving in 3 years...and if we trade KP for it, and are running the superstar duo of Lowry and Luka, I wouldn't blame Luka for leaving at all. I don't dislike Lowry at all, but I don't want to over-rate him either.
To me, we are into the full on "grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" scenario for a lot of people with KP. I think a lot of people have gotten so irritated with him that it's literally more emotional than intelligent right now. I'm reminded of a quote...from all people, Jerry Jones. "Don't let your money get mad." The meaning is to warn against talking yourself into emotional driven decisions that are not factually smart...and I think that's exactly where a lot of people on this board are with KP.
I think trading KP for a player in their 20s (anywhere) that is a clear cut #2 to be here long-term is totally acceptable, but trading him for a dude on the last leg of his career, starting a max deal, just isn't wise, to me. I could completely be wrong, but I can't go there with you.
(07-26-2021, 10:59 AM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]I literally think that trading KP for a 33-34 year old Kyle Lowry is nuts. I really do.... It seems that these KP trades just are going down the hole of "well, if we can get a can of beans for him, let's do it." Oh my word. (I don't think that Kyle Lowry is a can of beans, but I'm talking about the direction these trades are heading toward.)
I like Kyle Lowry and I'd love to have him on this team, but I'm not giving him $25-30 mill/year, as Woj predicts his contract will be.
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...50017?s=20
I think if we come out of the off-season with Lowry as our big signing, we are in for Luka leaving in 3 years...and if we trade KP for it, and are running the superstar duo of Lowry and Luka, I wouldn't blame Luka for leaving at all. I don't dislike Lowry at all, but I don't want to over-rate him either.
To me, we are into the full on "grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" scenario for a lot of people with KP. I think a lot of people have gotten so irritated with him that it's literally more emotional than intelligent right now. I'm reminded of a quote...from all people, Jerry Jones. "Don't let your money get mad." The meaning is to warn against talking yourself into emotional driven decisions that are not factually smart...and I think that's exactly where a lot of people on this board are with KP.
I think trading KP for a player in their 20s (anywhere) that is a clear cut #2 to be here long-term is totally acceptable, but trading him for a dude on the last leg of his career, starting a max deal, just isn't wise, to me. I could completely be wrong, but I can't go there with you.
I wonder whether Lowry also finds it difficult to secure that 75-90M deal for three fully guaranteed years. His agent also seems to work overtime, linking him with every team under the sun.
Ujiri doesn´t strike me as a slow mover (Greetings Nene), so the fact that he was not able to move Lowry on at the TDL, might not only have been a case of finding the right trade package, but also securing an extension guarantee from Lowry. Imho teams probably value him more at around 60-65 for three full years, maybe 50/2. I think it would be nuts to give him 90/3 fully guaranteed.
(07-26-2021, 06:53 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]Regular season stats for players with over 39 games played and with at least 2 attempts taken with the pick and roll play (no rookies have qualified).
RH tops in frequency at 35.5% followed by Theis at 33.1%
KP is at 13 with 18.6%, Collins is at 19 with 16.7%
Point per possession has RH running 3rd at 1.30, Gobert is tops with 1.34
JC is 6th with 1.22 and KP at 15 with 1.12
RH is third on FG percentage with 64.2%, first is Gobert at 71.4%
JC is 11th at 54%, KP at 17 with 48.5%
Score frequency has RH at 64.8%, good for third, while Gobert takes first place at 67.9%
Collins is 10th at 54.4% and KP is at 48%, good for 18th spot
FT frequency has RH running 8th with 14.8% while Gobert is tops with 26.6%
JC is 10th at 12.7% and KP is at 16th with 7.4%
And-One frequency has RH at 5th with 4.7% while once again Gobert is tops with 6.9%
Running behind RH is JC at 6th at 4.4%, while KP is 11th at 2.7%
Perecntile:
Gobert = 86.6
Adbayo at 84.9
RH at 83.6
That looks elite to me.
Now imagine how much Luka can elevate RH's game even further.
Unfortunately I don't think nba.com differentiates between a roll man and a pop man. They're all just lumped into roll man. If you go off of that, shit we got the rolling god Maxi Kleber here at 1.45ppp in 19/20. Kevin Love is just a popper and has insane ppp the past 2 seasons getting inflated from 3s. JC's roll man stats from 19/20 should be a better indicator cause last year's numbers were mostly sharing the floor with Capela and the usage dropped by over half.
(07-26-2021, 10:59 AM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]To me, we are into the full on "grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" scenario for a lot of people with KP. I think a lot of people have gotten so irritated with him that it's literally more emotional than intelligent right now. I'm reminded of a quote...from all people, Jerry Jones. "Don't let your money get mad." The meaning is to warn against talking yourself into emotional driven decisions that are not factually smart...and I think that's exactly where a lot of people on this board are with KP.
Thing is that the other side of the argument feels the same way. Well...at least I do. I think a lot of people are still enarmored with the idea what KP could be and refuse to accept that he simply isn´t the player we wanted him to be. If I would tell you that I would like to get rid of a player that misses 1/3 of the games each season and has the worst net rating among rotation players most people would agree with me. But not in KPs case.
Same thing happens when we talk about his role on offense. People are mad about THJs iso/midrange attempts but want to see more of them from KP who has similar or even slightly worse efficiency numbers on those attempts.
It really comes down to the individual. If you rank KP based on his performance in Dallas it makes sense to move him. If you are out on him because of the injury risk you probably want to trade him at all costs. If you think of him as a young and talented player with a lot of potential you obviously want to keep him.
(07-26-2021, 10:59 AM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]I literally think that trading KP for a 33-34 year old Kyle Lowry is nuts. I really do.... It seems that these KP trades just are going down the hole of "well, if we can get a can of beans for him, let's do it." Oh my word. (I don't think that Kyle Lowry is a can of beans, but I'm talking about the direction these trades are heading toward.)
I like Kyle Lowry and I'd love to have him on this team, but I'm not giving him $25-30 mill/year, as Woj predicts his contract will be.
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...50017?s=20
I think if we come out of the off-season with Lowry as our big signing, we are in for Luka leaving in 3 years...and if we trade KP for it, and are running the superstar duo of Lowry and Luka, I wouldn't blame Luka for leaving at all. I don't dislike Lowry at all, but I don't want to over-rate him either.
To me, we are into the full on "grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" scenario for a lot of people with KP. I think a lot of people have gotten so irritated with him that it's literally more emotional than intelligent right now. I'm reminded of a quote...from all people, Jerry Jones. "Don't let your money get mad." The meaning is to warn against talking yourself into emotional driven decisions that are not factually smart...and I think that's exactly where a lot of people on this board are with KP.
I think trading KP for a player in their 20s (anywhere) that is a clear cut #2 to be here long-term is totally acceptable, but trading him for a dude on the last leg of his career, starting a max deal, just isn't wise, to me. I could completely be wrong, but I can't go there with you.
I don't think you are looking at this right. Lowry is a UFA. We can sign him outright (don't need to trade KP). If we decide to do a S&T for KP, that will not be for Lowry, it will be for cap space. The recent proposal floating around (I might be the one who floated it) is to sign Holmes and Powell with that cap space. So a better way to look at the KP trade is KP/JRich for Holmes/Powell. You did not trade him for a young #2 (those guys are going for massive hauls that we don't have) but you did trade him for a young defensive anchor and a potential #3. I think most people around here would pull that trigger, if for no other reason to move on from the KP health uncertainty.