(06-15-2022, 12:18 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Didn’t they decide this already when they gave him a guaranteed deal for next year? He looks like a great LONG-TERM project to me. Closer to contributing already than anyone we’re going to draft at #26 but with considerable development still needed.
I have to say I do not see what you see. He has been in the league for 6 years and shown virtually no improvement. It would be one thing if he was good at something (like Frank with defense) and he needed to get the rest of his game up to speed, but I'm not sure what that would be? I guess he was not terrible with the Warriors, but he seemed useless here once he got his contract.
(06-15-2022, 01:54 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Moving what goal posts? You inserted yourself into the conversation that had goal posts and changed them yourself all while being aggressive in your wording.
I didn't realize it was a closed conversation.
I made the simple statement that if we need to open a roster spot I don't think it matters which player we remove. You consistently reply that it matters what we replace those guys with, which had nothing to do with my point.
I did not realize "who cares" is aggressive wording. I'm sorry if I triggered you.
Also, I would contend that the one who resorts to using aggressive wording is the one who is triggered.
(06-15-2022, 02:25 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Also, I would contend that the one who resorts to using aggressive wording is the one who is triggered.
You literally made the following reply to Branduil:
Because any addition we bring to the roster requires figuring out who goes to make room. I don’t know why you don’t understand that.
Setting aside the arguably aggressive tone in that statement, that is what I replied to. How is saying it does not matter which of those 5 guys is removed is not relevant to the conversation? It was in direct response to your statement. In fact you literally just agreed with that sentiment in your response above. Is "who cares" that much of a trigger? I meant in the same way as "I don't think it matters" or "why does it matter". Would those have been better? I had no idea it would send us down a rathole in which you tell me I'm dumb because I don't care who we add to the roster.
I guess it's cool that we're starting dumb arguments about roster spots 11-15 instead of roster spots 5-10, like we normally do. Seems like that's a sign of team progress.
For the record, the only thing I think we need 100% agreement on around here is that the great Dorian Finney-Smith is a treasure and nothing even remotely disparaging about him should ever by typed in this space. But that's obvious fact, and the rest of these things are all opinions, of course.
(06-15-2022, 02:41 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]You literally made the following reply to Branduil:
Because any addition we bring to the roster requires figuring out who goes to make room. I don’t know why you don’t understand that.
You quote my reply to Branduil without using the reply as well, this is what he said:
Quote:I don't understand why you guys care so much about the 15th spot on the roster.
I very regularly match aggression with the words used by the aggressor. Which what I said, did just that. He inserted himself in a conversation I was in saying he didn't understand why I cared. I said, I don't know why you don't understand that. Matched aggression. Sure, I could have left it alone and gone on, but we all have our hang ups.
(06-15-2022, 02:41 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Setting aside the arguably aggressive tone in that statement, that is what I replied to. How is saying it does not matter which of those 5 guys is removed is not relevant to the conversation? It was in direct response to your statement. In fact you literally just agreed with that sentiment in your response above. Is "who cares" that much of a trigger? I meant in the same way as "I don't think it matters" or "why does it matter". Would those have been better? I had no idea it would send us down a rathole in which you tell me I'm dumb because I don't care who we add to the roster.
The conversation being had wasn't about who is the 15th man, it was about
should Burke go, it was also about
should Boban go. It was not about should we let Boban
OR Burke go. So you AND Branduil moved the goal posts if you think it was about either/or.
Cato on Josh Green grade
Green’s emergence occurred in the weeks prior to our midseason grades. In the months that followed, Green averaged more than 18 minutes while playing in every one of the season’s final 50 games. His most electric moments came in those early weeks; opponents began playing him for the pass and, at times, daring him to shoot. He shot about 35 percent on 3s in those final 50 games, and I believe he’ll continue growing more confident and effective behind the arc. But there’s more development needed, not just more made jumpers, but more defensive consistency, more purpose when driving and simply more impact in his minutes. Because he’s still 21, there’s reason to believe he’ll get there.
And Frank
Ntilikina, remarkably, is only 23 years old. There’s probably still untapped development for him in the coming seasons. It would be helpful to streamline his role; he needs to view himself as a 3-and-D wing, not the point guard he was drafted as, someone who can meaningfully attack closeouts and make high-level passing reads, not someone tasked with creating or initiating offense. That, plus his developing jumper plus his defensive ferocity, could turn him into an every-game rotation player. His development also could stall, which would probably mean he’s out of the league within a couple seasons. But when we discuss Nico Harrison’s tenure, it was smart work to sign Ntilikina to a non-guaranteed second year. If he were unrestricted this summer, another team might have seen enough to toss him something slightly above the league minimum. Instead, I’m pretty certain he’ll be back with a chance to showcase those needed improvements.
(06-15-2022, 02:46 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I guess it's cool that we're starting dumb arguments about roster spots 11-15 instead of roster spots 5-10, like we normally do. Seems like that's a sign of team progress.
For the record, the only thing I think we need 100% agreement on around here is that the great Dorian Finney-Smith is a treasure and nothing even remotely disparaging about him should ever by typed in this space. But that's obvious fact, and the rest of these things are all opinions, of course.
Man, if only he had gotten just 1 DPotY vote!
(06-15-2022, 02:46 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I guess it's cool that we're starting dumb arguments about roster spots 11-15 instead of roster spots 5-10, like we normally do. Seems like that's a sign of team progress.
Nature of fan discussions. Mavs just made the WCF and it seems like no one is willing to touch the core rotation. That leaves us with end of the bench guys. Don´t really agree with that logic but imagine the reaction if I would start a thread and suggest a trade that includes DFS.
(06-15-2022, 03:37 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Nature of fan discussions. Mavs just made the WCF and it seems like no one is willing to touch the core rotation. That leaves us with end of the bench guys. Don´t really agree with that logic but imagine the reaction if I would start a thread and suggest a trade that include DFS.
I’m willing to touch more than 11-15, it’s just thst that was what others wanted to talk about. Luka and JB (only because signing him is the ONLY option right now) are the only trade pieces I will not touch. Others, we can talk about the validity of trading them for sure (most of them we have, which is why it makes sense to move down the roster!).
(06-15-2022, 03:42 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]![[Image: joke-i-dont-get-it.gif]](https://c.tenor.com/jjFdcf_sN1wAAAAM/joke-i-dont-get-it.gif)
I’m much closer than I have been with DFS. I really like the development of him attacking the close out. I hope to see even more of that next season and then he would be a complete player that I would want to lock down as an untouchable. I think he can get there, which is also a step in your direction too!
Also, I am aware that you were trying to lighten the mood.
(06-15-2022, 01:11 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]That's what I thought you meant, just making sure.
I think anyone involved with the team (or closely observing) would hope that Ntilikina gets at least one more season here to see if he can truly blossom and claim a regular role. I think he has shown enough to earn that hope.
I share your level of intrigue over Chriss's play style and potential skillset, but don't know that he has shown enough to qualify for that same tier (Ntilikina's tier).
In a separate but related point, I speculate that if you asked the coaching staff what they'd prefer, the top three guys on this list they'd want to keep would be Ntilikina, Burke and Brown (in some order). Those are the three who already seem closest to understanding what it takes to simply be a professional basketball player. Obviously Boban qualifies here, too, but he just flat-out isn't a type of player who can function in today's game. This is compounded by the obvious decline in his game that has occurred during his time here in Dallas.
Maybe most importantly, I'm not sure Cuban cares about any of that more than he cares about the hike in his tax bill (even if it is just for one year) that would come with some of what's being suggested around here.
But it's all guessing at this point.
I think your take is eminently reasonable. Mine may well be wrong. But to the extent I’m not seeing eye to eye with you, it’s mostly because
1. I view Chriss as a Nico/Kidd decision. The summer signings not so much. Burke not at all.
2. Chriss has the potential to be what I view as a much rarer quantity—another Maxi (or Maxi light). None of the other guys qualify as hard-to-find types. Defend the rim, switch screens, and stretch the floor. If he can do even 2 of the 3 there’s a spot for him here. And there’s a chance he can become average at all 3, given time, which would make him valuable.
3. I fear Burke burned bridges with his no-inoculation stance. My view on that stuff = whatever. But I don’t think my view is the NBA norm.
I wonder if Philly would accept a Sterling Brown for Embiid trade. It would address our needs in the front court and the 6ers would get a basketball player(?) in return.
(06-15-2022, 03:09 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]You quote my reply to Branduil without using the reply as well, this is what he said:
I very regularly match aggression with the words used by the aggressor. Which what I said, did just that. He inserted himself in a conversation I was in saying he didn't understand why I cared. I said, I don't know why you don't understand that. Matched aggression. Sure, I could have left it alone and gone on, but we all have our hang ups.
The conversation being had wasn't about who is the 15th man, it was about should Burke go, it was also about should Boban go. It was not about should we let Boban OR Burke go. So you AND Branduil moved the goal posts if you think it was about either/or.
You know what, after looking back at those posts I think your right, I was a little triggered. Branduil asked a fairly innocuous question regarding why multiple posters were talking about something so much. Although not directed at you specifically, apparently it triggered you enough to A, make a statement that you yourself have contradicted, and B, to effectively call Branduil an idiot for not understanding said statement (which you yourself don't agree with).
I guess I didn't like to see what looked to me like a Mod/regular poster bullying another one, and maybe that impacted my choice of language. For future reference regarding your concern with aggression:
asking why folks are talking about something != calling an individual poster stupid
(06-15-2022, 04:04 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]I think your take is eminently reasonable. Mine may well be wrong. But to the extent I’m not seeing eye to eye with you, it’s mostly because
1. I view Chriss as a Nico/Kidd decision. The summer signings not so much. Burke not at all.
2. Chriss has the potential to be what I view as a much rarer quantity—another Maxi (or Maxi light). None of the other guys qualify as hard-to-find types. Defend the rim, switch screens, and stretch the floor. If he can do even 2 of the 3 there’s a spot for him here. And there’s a chance he can become average at all 3, given time, which would make him valuable.
3. I fear Burke burned bridges with his no-inoculation stance. My view on that stuff = whatever. But I don’t think my view is the NBA norm.
Chriss is a spare who probably won't be on any NBA team to start next season
![[Image: anger-angry.gif]](https://c.tenor.com/s9HsnsQ6hGAAAAAC/anger-angry.gif)
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/cS2fJX2AAT2sE/giphy.gif)