MavsBoard

(06-01-2022, 04:03 PM)michaeltex Wrote: [ -> ]I've seen the talk about salary cap restrictions if you S&T Brunson, but if you just sign him then trade after December 15th but before the TDL, are the team's cap restrictions still in place?

What triggers the "hard cap" at the 155M-ish apron is a sign-and-trade, or a use of the bigger MLE. So after signing Brunson and landing at about 175M, they can trade all they want and operate in that range, or even higher if they want, just so long as they don't do a snt (or big MLE). Non-SNT trades all year for the Mavs would just use normal rules, with the 125% margin being the limit on additions for the Mavs. Just can't bring in a player via SNT.

As for the base year alterations to Brunson's matching salary, those would end Jan 15.

(06-01-2022, 12:57 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder if WAS wants to get off of Gafford's contract, now that they have KP taking the minutes, and if so, what he might cost. He might be seen as too expensive for a backup in WAS. But his big raise doesn't hit until next season.

His contract has a future big extension. So Mavs can send pick and/or small salary player like Green, Brown, etc. but the salary jumps in 2023.

It doesn't move Powell, but it might address the need for a better center.

The structure of Gafford's contract (small number in 22 and bump in 23 when Maxi and Powell are FA's) would be a really smart cap management move.  No need to dump either of our current centers now as their expiring contracts might come in handy at the TDL.   Plus, do we have enough history to really say we trust Gafford in a playoff series?  Until he proves himself and we get to the TDL, I might prefer Gafford join a center position that is more of a bullpen/committee approach.  2023 might be a different story though as Dallas can make some decisions about 2/3's of the committee.

A couple of other things...Gafford is not a fantastic rebounder.  In fact team defensive rebounding went down by over 3 boards per game when he was in versus when he was out.  He is a high level shot blocker and until this past season scored well as a defender.  21/22 saw a drop off there.  The biggest challenge to me is figuring out what Washington might want from us.  I don't see Green or any other low dollar guy nor the 26th pick being all that attractive.  They need a starting level PG.  If you take Brunson off the table, we'd need to find a third team that has a PG and has more use for Green/26 than they do for Gafford.  For instance, Brogdon ends up in DC and Green/26 is part of the compensation Indy gets from Washington.  Washington has $4mm and $5.2mm TPE's that carry to February should they be necessary.  

One other note.  If you did something like this on the cheap AND if Philly really would take THJ (with Green hurt) and Bertans for Tobias, you've taken a bunch of non-contributors to the recent run and turned them into Gafford and Harris adding paint protection and another player who can create some for themselves in the front court.

LOL here we go for fantasy trades that work capwise at least 

Powell + Saddiq Bey + DET #5 --> Chicago

Green + Brunson S&T $25 million  --> Detroit

Bertans + THJ + DAL #26 + DAL 2027 no 1 --> Utah

Gobert + Lavine S&T $38 million --> Dallas

(06-01-2022, 03:22 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]This makes taking a swing at him way more interesting....

But I also feel that if the Magic move him then there's a good chance he's just not right.

Yeah he´s basically expiring after next season. $7.6M over last two years is nothing. Will be very interesting to see what Orlando does. Given the Ivey #1 buzz, maybe their frontcourt won´t have that much of a logjam afterall.

(06-01-2022, 05:27 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]LOL here we go for fantasy trades that work capwise at least 

Powell + Saddiq Bey + DET #5 --> Chicago

Green + Brunson S&T $25 million  --> Detroit

Bertans + THJ + DAL #26 + DAL 2027 no 1 --> Utah

Gobert + Lavine S&T $38 million --> Dallas

(06-01-2022, 02:22 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Pinson is peanuts. And maybe all three of them wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have Burke, Brown and Chriss giving you little to no minutes.  We just have two many small salaried players with no upside taking up spots.

So, sure, that is a big part of it, but how are we supposed to create the pipeline that FGump is talking about when 2 spots on the roster are taken up with guys JKidd has no intention on using? Frank, Green, Burke, Brown and Chriss (Pinson up until now) are all guys in that pipeline. 


We need starters, backups, then developmental/injury insurance players (should have some proven vets in the injury replacement spots too, so not all developmental players are necessarily injury replacements). Leaves little room for cheerleaders and “the superstar’s friend that we can’t touch or our superstar will head into a tailspin and never recover”. Heck, we hired Steve Nash’s friend to be the equipment manager, why can’t that be Pinson or Boban? How about co-equipment managers? Pay them as much as you like, who cares?

Go get Isaacs.....  He is the perfect athletic wing that the Mavs need.  It's a health risk.  But so was Marion at the time.  So was Chandler at the time.

Dalton Trigg put up a trade idea that I like better than something I proposed a while back.  I thought Sacramento might like Hardaway as a win-now (OK, play-in now) type piece in a deal for Holmes and Harkless.  Expiring Harkless is there to make the money work.  He is a Duffy guy and free after the current season.

Trigg's deal sends out more assets but replaces Harkless with Barnes.  Many commentators have said we need both a center and a competent scoring wing.  This deal accomplishes both.  Barnes is absolute money on corner 3's, but also creates nearly half of his 2-point shots unassisted.  That would give us one more guy (besides a PG) who can create for himself while also able to play off the ball competently.  His TS% in in the 91st percentile.  He was terrible defensively this last season, but has been at least average in the past and has had seasons where the good O and average D balanced to a plus performer.  Sacramento might be willing to deal because Barnes is entering the final year of his contract and could walk for nothing next summer.

The compensation that Trigg proposes for Holmes/Barnes is:

THJ
Green
22 Pick or 25 pick
Powell

As we know, Holmes fits into our TPE on draft night, so including Powell would be optional for Sacramento.  Sacramento has the 37th overall, so the 22 pick could be a swap.  The Kings have a $4mm TPE, so the Green part of this could create a small TPE.  Barnes is 30 and trading for him means you will be dealing with 31 year old Barnes (Schwartz) next summer for a new contract.  We are adding two competent playoff rotation players here without giving up anyone who contributed to the WCF run.  Playoff rotation probably looks something like:

Holmes/Maxi       Boban
Barnes/DFS        Bertans/Chriss
DFS/Bullock        Brown
Brunson/SD        Frank/Pinson
Luka/SD             Burke

(06-02-2022, 09:24 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Dalton Trigg

Just saw this proposal. 

Kings perspective: Powell is overpaid back-up center, bonus is he is expiring. Not a lot of value here. THJ is good and they could use his shooting - although they have Davis, who is a very similar score first guard.  In a sum they decrease their cap space in 2023/24 (projected to be big) by some 10 mil. Big question is, what they do with #4. If they get one of the top 3 bigs or trade it for a good PF, than Barnes might not be needed. I think just throwing in Green and #26 is light for Kings and they might get better offers elsewhere. 

The question is than back to Mavs - is this package good enough to kill long term trade flexibility by sending 2025 (or later) pick? Are Barnes and Holmes really good enough to be starters on a contender? I am not really convinced.

To sum it up - I would immediately do it, if the price is this years pick (add whatever second rounders needed). If the price is later pick, I am not so enthusiastic.

I like the thought of the Trigg deal. If we made it, I would believe we upgraded our team a bit. I hope for a better result this offseason, but could get behind this. With Barnes expiring, I do wonder if he would resign here, maybe another WCF run keeps him interested?

I did find an interesting trade elsewhere, it was a part of a full Portland rebuild offseason. The Mavs part was like this:

Out:
Green, Bertans, #26

In:
Winslow, Nurkic (snt 3/36 a flat 12 per), #59

Would you do this? Winslow would be a decent fallen angel prospect (backup wing) and Nurkic would be a competent C that isn’t paid so much that he has to play if he’s not effective. The second gives us a jumpstart on the undrafted list of players. This is also a deal I wouldn’t mind, although Nurkic’s injury history is a bit scary. However, as long as he’s ready to go for the playoffs, Powell can get us there. 

This would be another last resort type deal I would make, it is also problematic in the sense that with a snt, it has to be made in FA and picks will be made beforehand. Something that was a battleground around here last year.

In the vein of "trades proposed elsewhere," I saw this one on a Charlotte-focused site, in an article proposing ways to move Hayward:

• Mavericks get: Gordon Hayward
  
• Hornets get: Davis Bertans, Dwight Powell
  

Comments?

(06-02-2022, 10:30 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]In the vein of "trades proposed elsewhere," I saw this one on a Charlotte-focused site, in an article proposing ways to move Hayward:

• Mavericks get: Gordon Hayward
  
• Hornets get: Davis Bertans, Dwight Powell
  

Comments?

 I hope it was proposed by MJ himself, cause I think that´s about the only way this trade could ever happen.

(06-02-2022, 10:30 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]In the vein of "trades proposed elsewhere," I saw this one on a Charlotte-focused site, in an article proposing ways to move Hayward:

• Mavericks get: Gordon Hayward
  
• Hornets get: Davis Bertans, Dwight Powell
  

Comments?

As long as we have the starting C already in hand, sure, I’d do it. It puts us back in the all offense, little defense days unless that starting C is Gobert level.

(06-02-2022, 09:24 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Holmes/Maxi       Boban
Barnes/DFS        Bertans/Chriss
DFS/Bullock        Brown
Brunson/SD        Frank/Pinson
Luka/SD             Burke

No argument with your proposal but I do have a question...


Brown/Pinson/Burke/Frankie/Chriss are all nightly DNP-CD guys, or at least were last season.(I skipped Boban because, well he's Boban.) I know there were injuries and what not, but is there really any upside to these guys other than towel waving?

Frank did good work on CP3 in Round 2 and I think he might make a contribution if he can fix his shooting and Burke has been able to occasionally go into microwave mode. I know it's not a priority, but isn't worthwhile to stir the bottom of the lineup to maybe find something more "develop-able"?

(06-02-2022, 10:45 AM)michaeltex Wrote: [ -> ]No argument with your proposal but I do have a question...


Brown/Pinson/Burke/Frankie/Chriss are all nightly DNP-CD guys, or at least were last season.(I skipped Boban because, well he's Boban.) I know there were injuries and what not, but is there really any upside to these guys other than towel waving?

Frank did good work on CP3 in Round 2 and I think he might make a contribution if he can fix his shooting and Burke has been able to occasionally go into microwave mode. I know it's not a priority, but isn't worthwhile to stir the bottom of the lineup to maybe find something more "develop-able"?

Yes, and with the trade proposed, we’d still have lots of small avenues to get that pot churning. Still have the tp-mle, would have had the tpe to use and there are still vet mins to be handed out, right up to the hard cap.

(06-02-2022, 09:24 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Dalton Trigg put up a trade idea that I like better than something I proposed a while back.  I thought Sacramento might like Hardaway as a win-now (OK, play-in now) type piece in a deal for Holmes and Harkless.  Expiring Harkless is there to make the money work.  He is a Duffy guy and free after the current season.

Trigg's deal sends out more assets but replaces Harkless with Barnes.  Many commentators have said we need both a center and a competent scoring wing.  This deal accomplishes both.  Barnes is absolute money on corner 3's, but also creates nearly half of his 2-point shots unassisted.  That would give us one more guy (besides a PG) who can create for himself while also able to play off the ball competently.  His TS% in in the 91st percentile.  He was terrible defensively this last season, but has been at least average in the past and has had seasons where the good O and average D balanced to a plus performer.  Sacramento might be willing to deal because Barnes is entering the final year of his contract and could walk for nothing next summer.

The compensation that Trigg proposes for Holmes/Barnes is:

THJ
Green
22 Pick or 25 pick
Powell

As we know, Holmes fits into our TPE on draft night, so including Powell would be optional for Sacramento.  Sacramento has the 37th overall, so the 22 pick could be a swap.  The Kings have a $4mm TPE, so the Green part of this could create a small TPE.  Barnes is 30 and trading for him means you will be dealing with 31 year old Barnes (Schwartz) next summer for a new contract.  We are adding two competent playoff rotation players here without giving up anyone who contributed to the WCF run.  Playoff rotation probably looks something like:

Holmes/Maxi       Boban
Barnes/DFS        Bertans/Chriss
DFS/Bullock        Brown
Brunson/SD        Frank/Pinson
Luka/SD             Burke

As you mentioned Barnes was bad defensively this last year, and I think he is an average defender at best in general, but definitely an upgrade over Timmy and more versatile offensively as well.  I'm also in the camp that thinks Holmes will be a significant upgrade over Powell, and now that his custody case is settled he seems like a huge bounce back candidate.  We would still have the tax MLE for depth upgrade.  I would be totally on board with this trade.

(06-02-2022, 10:43 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]As long as we have the starting C already in hand, sure, I’d do it. It puts us back in the all offense, little defense days unless that starting C is Gobert level.

Hayward is actually a fairly good defender.  The assumption would be that we send out either THJ or Dinwiddie to get a starting center (meaning our defense is probably better), but you would have to pull this trigger regardless of what else you have lined up.  Hayward is by far the best player and you are getting rid of the Bertans contract.  I don't see this as very likely.

(06-02-2022, 10:17 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I did find an interesting trade elsewhere, it was a part of a full Portland rebuild offseason. The Mavs part was like this:

Out:
Green, Bertans, #26

In:
Winslow, Nurkic (snt 3/36 a flat 12 per), #59
 

So we lost Brunson for nothing?  I'm being snarky, but this doesn't come close to solving the S&T hardcap issue.  That's why I went through all of those gyrations the other day to Stretch Waive Powell or Bertans.  You can't go over $155mm if you use the full MLE or acquire someone via S&T.  This deal saves a buck or two, but nowhere near enough to also fit Brunson under the apron.

Also, we can't draft at 26 for the benefit of Portland and then trade that player in a deal for a free agent.  It will look like a pre-arranged deal that isn't legal.

(06-02-2022, 11:21 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]As you mentioned Barnes was bad defensively this last year, and I think he is an average defender at best in general, but definitely an upgrade over Timmy and more versatile offensively as well.  I'm also in the camp that thinks Holmes will be a significant upgrade over Powell, and now that his custody case is settled he seems like a huge bounce back candidate.  We would still have the tax MLE for depth upgrade.  I would be totally on board with this trade.

This is where I land also.  Filling two holes with our limited assets is really challenging.  This does a decent job of filling both holes in one deal.  We can extend Barnes and solve the free agent in 23 issue.  I think the tougher question is the one Omahen raises...what if they want both picks (or pick swap in 22 and next available first after that).  

We'd be locked into this roster for awhile, but I imagine Holmes getting the rebounds Powell didn't and hitting that little push shot when Luka passes to him in the mid roll.  I envision Barnes hitting 45% on every 3 that Green or Frank took in the playoffs.  And I envision an above average rim protecting center in at all times between Holmes and Maxi and I'm good with locking into this group for a few years.  It is pretty dramatic improvement IMHO.  How much depends on how off their norm both players were last season in cesspool Sacramento versus what they might be next to Luka.

(06-02-2022, 12:30 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]This is where I land also.  Filling two holes with our limited assets is really challenging.  This does a decent job of filling both holes in one deal.  We can extend Barnes and solve the free agent in 23 issue.  I think the tougher question is the one Omahen raises...what if they want both picks (or pick swap in 22 and next available first after that).  

We'd be locked into this roster for awhile, but I imagine Holmes getting the rebounds Powell didn't and hitting that little push shot when Luka passes to him in the mid roll.  I envision Barnes hitting 45% on every 3 that Green or Frank took in the playoffs.  And I envision an above average rim protecting center in at all times between Holmes and Maxi and I'm good with locking into this group for a few years.  It is pretty dramatic improvement IMHO.  How much depends on how off their norm both players were last season in cesspool Sacramento versus what they might be next to Luka.

Ya I am not the biggest Barnes fan but I could see him working out a lot better in a much different role. I wouldn't do the trade as Trigg designed it but some version of Barnes + Holmes for Mavs first round pick + salary would work for me.

Barnes would provide good wing depth and he can actually get his own shot. Kidd wouldn't let him iso on is own but if he gets the ball with 6 seconds left (which happens to some of our other guys), he is going to be able to get a decent shot off. I like him better than THJ who can't play defense, try as he might.