(11-04-2021, 11:08 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]Would Murray/JB present the same issue as Luka/JB?
I’m not sure, other than Murray is for sure not the player Luka is. I couldn’t come up with enough compensation for SA to pry Murray off the team unless they value KP.
Plenty of examples around the league of multiple ball handlers working together. I don’t mind replacing JB for THJ in the starting lineup, but I think there wouldn’t be enough defense with JB, THJ and Luka.
(11-04-2021, 11:12 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I’m not sure, other than Murray is for sure not the player Luka is. I couldn’t come up with enough compensation for SA to pry Murray off the team unless they value KP.
Plenty of examples around the league of multiple ball handlers working together. I don’t mind replacing JB for THJ in the starting lineup, but I think there wouldn’t be enough defense with JB, THJ and Luka.
I don't have any info about JB's view on the Spurs, specifically.
But I think a lot of us (not necessarily you personally) may have entered the season assuming that the only issue in re-signing JB is whether the Mavs were willing to match other offers. But we have now heard from a number of sources that, second to getting paid, Brunson's main goal is to run his own show. Which may not be an opportunity that the Mavs can offer. So it looks like we might be wise to give his goal a high degree of importance in formulating views about JB's future as a Mav, either as a player or a trade asset.
I think that, in an absolute sense, Pop would love to have JB. I don't know how that would work into their bigger longer-term plans. And I doubt that they will trade for him unless he indicates a willingness to stay there -- otherwise, he's just a rental. I don't know whether JB would feel that SA would provide him with the opportunity to make the Spurs his team, or even whether he considers SA a desirable situation in general. He might!
(11-04-2021, 11:28 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]I don't have any info about JB's view on the Spurs, specifically.
But I think a lot of us (not necessarily you personally) may have entered the season assuming that the only issue in re-signing JB is whether the Mavs were willing to match other offers. But we have now heard from a number of sources that, second to getting paid, Brunson's main goal is to run his own show. Which may not be an opportunity that the Mavs can offer. So it looks like we might be wise to give his goal a high degree of importance in formulating views about JB's future as a Mav, either as a player or a trade asset.
I think that, in an absolute sense, Pop would love to have JB. I don't know how that would work into their bigger longer-term plans. And I doubt that they will trade for him unless he indicates a willingness to stay there -- otherwise, he's just a rental. I don't know whether JB would feel that SA would provide him with the opportunity to make the Spurs his team, or even whether he considers SA a desirable situation in general. He might!
From what I read, he wants "his team". I look around the league and don't see many teams needing a PG, SA is as good as any team seeing as Murray doesn't really seem like a star in the making, he seems like a top end starter. Now, I don't see JB as a star either, more of a top end starter ceiling. That's where my thoughts ended with the 2 of them being able to together form a "our team" type of partnership, where if he stays here with Luka, I'm not sure that is possible. Either that or JB's presence gives them the ability to shop Murray.
(11-04-2021, 11:48 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]From what I read, he wants "his team". I look around the league and don't see many teams needing a PG, SA is as good as any team seeing as Murray doesn't really seem like a star in the making, he seems like a top end starter. Now, I don't see JB as a star either, more of a top end starter ceiling. That's where my thoughts ended with the 2 of them being able to together form a "our team" type of partnership, where if he stays here with Luka, I'm not sure that is possible. Either that or JB's presence gives them the ability to shop Murray.
Agree that a lot depends on what alternatives JB has. I haven't really followed the Spurs' roster situation and long-term plans this season, so you are probably in a better position to comment on those than I am.
(11-04-2021, 11:54 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]Agree that a lot depends on what alternatives JB has. I haven't really followed the Spurs' roster situation and long-term plans this season, so you are probably in a better position to comment on those than I am.
Pop is wanting to leave the team set up for the future now that Aldridge is gone. Not sure this type of move does that, but that makes me think he's looking for something.
It is always scary when a player hits Unrestricted Free agency. Plus, you don't really know the player or teams true feelings.
I will say this though, Brunson in his current role playing 27 to 30 minutes a night is a real good spot for him. My concern with Rick last year is he didn't really play Luka and Brunson together a ton. I wanted to see much more of this. My fear was in that scenario, Brunson would eventually look for a bigger role. The role he is in now is a really good fit for him. Also, I think, right now, he has locked down a closing role as well. He also appears to have a good relationship with Luka, which is important.
Also, let me add. I was pretty vocal about my disappointment with this offseason. With that being said, I disagree with those who think this team is a far away from being a contender. A smart, disciplined front office should be able to fill the weak points of the roster and improve around the edges while keeping flexibility for a big trade as a final piece. True, most scenarios are dependent on a healthy KP to either fit here or be moved eventually and the start of this year has eroded confidence in this at the moment.
But, if this team upgraded their starting center or starting PF (depending how you view KP). Finding a starting center will be easier than a do it all PF imo. Add one more ball creator. And then see if you can upgrade one of Bullock or DFS on the wing. These may not be filled with all stars but they are clear ways to improve this roster. It may not be a homerun but string together a few doubles and you still score.
Luka
Jalen
X
KP
X
Bench
Maxi
Hardaway
x
x
Maybe some of these X's are filled with DFS, Bullock, Frank, Powell, Frank. Preferably as bench roles, but maybe one can still start.
The mavs front office needs to be disciplined and smart and make good evaluations. While is may not uncover an all star, you can find upgrades with good decision making.
(11-04-2021, 11:59 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]It is always scary when a player hits Unrestricted Free agency. Plus, you don't really know the player or teams true feelings.
I will say this though, Brunson in his current role playing 27 to 30 minutes a night is a real good spot for him. My concern with Rick last year is he didn't really play Luka and Brunson together a ton. I wanted to see much more of this. My fear was in that scenario, Brunson would eventually look for a bigger role. The role he is in now is a really good fit for him. Also, I think, right now, he has locked down a closing role as well. He also appears to have a good relationship with Luka, which is important.
I wouldn't disagree with that. The only thing is, it's what Jalen thinks that matters. And we keep getting hints, one after another, that Brunson has something else in mind and that Mavs fans shouldn't be mad at him about that.
I'm not saying he will or won't stay. Just passing along what we've been hearing.
(11-04-2021, 12:17 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]The mavs front office needs to be disciplined and smart and make good evaluations.
Totally agree.
The thing is, that applies to the front offices of all 30 teams in the league.
(11-04-2021, 10:52 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Only problem is, who is the PG off the bench and don't say Burke! Would love to use the TPE and a couple seconds for Coby White for that purpose, I'm sure Chi is looking for more compensation than that though.
You can start Brunson and still stagger his minutes with Luka so that one is on the court at all times, especially if you play him 30+ minutes.
Unfortunately I don't think we can stay with Jalen ... I don't think he can start on a regular basis, he kills the size advantage of having a 6'7 guard and he's not a good defender..we can only offer him to be a 6man and in this At the moment of your career you will want to start, especially with the level you are showing ... Maybe working in an ST for a bigger need, than an elite backup guard
(11-04-2021, 02:24 PM)Mikelo Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately I don't think we can stay with Jalen ... I don't think he can start on a regular basis, he kills the size advantage of having a 6'7 guard and he's not a good defender..we can only offer him to be a 6man and in this At the moment of your career you will want to start, especially with the level you are showing ... Maybe working in an ST for a bigger need, than an elite backup guard
It's tough to find the quickness, skill, ball handling and scoring advantages you need to win by limiting yourself to players 6'7" or taller. Height advantage is good, but doesn't necessarily beat a skill advantage.
(11-04-2021, 02:24 PM)Mikelo Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately I don't think we can stay with Jalen ... I don't think he can start on a regular basis, he kills the size advantage of having a 6'7 guard and he's not a good defender..we can only offer him to be a 6man and in this At the moment of your career you will want to start, especially with the level you are showing ... Maybe working in an ST for a bigger need, than an elite backup guard
I figure we should have 2 of Luka/THJ/Brunson on the court at anytime. That means you can start either Brunson or THJ. They are both net negatives on defense. When healthy, a starting lineup of KP/Maxi/DFS/Luka/Brunson is probably our best. THJ fits the 6th man mold perfectly.
(11-04-2021, 02:32 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]They are both net negatives on defense.
Are you referencing a metric, or just saying "net negative" as an opinion? Honestly curious, not pushing back by asking a question.
(11-04-2021, 02:32 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]a starting lineup of KP/Maxi/DFS/Luka/Brunson is probably our best
Not sure about that. That looks more like a situational lineup. I wouldn't expect KP/Max/DFS to play big minutes together. I think it's more likely to see two of the three together.
(11-04-2021, 02:39 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Are you referencing a metric, or just saying "net negative" as an opinion? Honestly curious, not pushing back by asking a question.
Not sure about that. That looks more like a situational lineup. I wouldn't expect KP/Max/DFS to play big minutes together. I think it's more likely to see two of the three together.
On defense, both those guys have negative advanced stats (for both DRPM and DBPM are roughly -1 over the last couple years), but it is also an opinion. Neither look good to the eye test, and Brunson looks a little worse due to his size. Neither are point of attack defenders.
As for KP/Maxi/DFS, those guys were part of our starting lineup last year when healthy (that lineup with Luka and JRich had the most minutes of any 5 man lineup) and it dominated, particularly offensively (and that was with JRich!). I know JRich is hated around here, but it is still probably a drop off defensively to go from him to Brunson. That should be more than made up for with a healthy KP and Maxi (although I am wondering if that is ever going to happen).
(11-04-2021, 02:59 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]As for KP/Maxi/DFS, those guys were part of our starting lineup last year when healthy (that lineup with Luka and JRich had the most minutes of any 5 man lineup) and it dominated
Dog gone. So it was. My bad.
(11-04-2021, 02:59 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I know JRich is hated around here, but it is still probably a drop off defensively to go from him to Brunson.
I would strongly disagree. I would take JB defensively every time over JR.
(11-04-2021, 02:59 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I know JRich is hated around here, but it is still probably a drop off defensively to go from him to Brunson. That should be more than made up for with a healthy KP and Maxi (although I am wondering if that is ever going to happen).
Agreed. But then again, J-Rich didn't have THJ in the lineup (DFS and Maxi are far better defenders). I'd really like to see JB-Luka-DFS-Maxi-KP lineup to see the results.
(11-04-2021, 04:13 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I would strongly disagree. I would take JB defensively every time over JR.
A good example of the JRich hate. He had an off year last year, probably at least partially due to Covid, and he may not be as good as hyped up to be, but still a better defender than Brunson (which is a fairly low bar).
(11-04-2021, 08:11 PM)HAguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed. But then again, J-Rich didn't have THJ in the lineup (DFS and Maxi are far better defenders). I'd really like to see JB-Luka-DFS-Maxi-KP lineup to see the results.
I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or you did not see the original post. That is the lineup I was recommending. The real problem is that KP and Maxi are our only quality rim protectors and the only bigs that can play next to Powell (who is not good as the only big). That means you generally want one of those guys on the court, and since neither plays big minutes that does not give you a lot of time have both on the court. The issue is exacerbated by both of them being injury prone.
If we are really focused on going the two big route, we should have grabbed Holmes in free agency instead of Bullock and let WCS walk. Then we have Holmes/Powell center rotation and KP/Maxi PF rotation. We would be in much better position to handle the inevitable KP injuries.
(11-06-2021, 12:10 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]A good example of the JRich hate. He had an off year last year, probably at least partially due to Covid, and he may not be as good as hyped up to be, but still a better defender than Brunson (which is a fairly low bar).
So far he's having an awful year in Boston too. 3 years straight where he's progressively gotten worse and worse. Looks like his career year in Miami was a fluke. If he was anywhere close to that player here we'd still have him.
As far as if he's better than Brunson on defense. On paper yes, he should be. But from what I saw last year the guy mainly disappeared on defense, and didn't seem like he was in another class than Brunson there.
JRich deserves all the hate he can get.