(07-28-2021, 10:33 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]You're not saying they're assets, but you're responding to a post from Kamm in which he does say he wishes we had guys on the team that were assets.
It sounds like you're getting your personal feelings about these players mixed up with what other FOs would want from them. The other FOs don't care about what you think about them, they care about making their teams better.
Now.
It seems odd to me to care more about our players tradevalue than actual value, especially some I like to keep, because they have better value to us than to others.
My dream might be to have not a single asset but 17 players lol.
And of course I get mixed up my feelings about this players, because I want to like my team.
If the Mavs win a Chip with players I can´t see as "my" players I would be very mixed about my feelings.
(07-28-2021, 10:43 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]If the Mavs win a Chip with players I can´t see as "my" players I would be very mixed about my feelings.
Mavs won't win a Chip with these players, I'll bet my house on that.
(07-28-2021, 10:43 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]It seems odd to me to care more about our players tradevalue than actual value, especially some I like to keep, because they have better value to us than to others.
You probably should have responded to Kamm's post originally in this way as opposed to how you did then. You went off on a phantom tangent making his thought not what it was.
(07-28-2021, 11:02 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs won't win a Chip with these players, I'll bet my house on that.
Betting against Luka seems quite a gamble.
(07-28-2021, 11:02 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]You probably should have responded to Kamm's post originally in this way as opposed to how you did then. You went off on a phantom tangent making his thought not what it was.
It was kinda more fun and informativ this way.
Maybe not being a native speaker results in some missunderstanding now and then.
One thing's for certain, Kyle Lowry is pretty much guaranteed to be a depreciating asset. Luka puts the team in win-now mode, but you're in win-now mode for the next decade+. There almost no chance in 2 years, someone is clamoring for that 30 mil expiring for a 38 year old Lowry in exchange for a star or ascending star. Lowry already won his chip with his team, pretty sure he knows this is his last chance for a bag, he's going to get as much as possible and will give it his all, but he's not sacrificing anything. There's nothing wrong with that at all, but he's focusing on himself over the team cause 30 mil is hamstringing a team's cap.
In hindsight, the correct move in the 2019 offseason was to take Julius Randle for 20mil/year. He developed his 3 point shot to elite levels and is playing heavy minutes for the #1 defense in the league. His contract appreciated in value by over 50%. He's easily a max player now. In 2 years, Luka will be in his supermax and there could be another roster shakeup. There could be some splash signing/trade or whatever, and Kyle Lowry being a 30 mil expiring 38 year old isn't likely to entice any moves. Much more likely to be a Kevin Love contract for a guy who's already won his chip.
Slovenia's current roster is 5 out with a rim roller due to Tobey. I'd try to do whatever it takes to build a roster that is similar to that if at all possible. 5 out with no rim roller and a bunch of roleplayers almost beat the Clippers at full strength with much less overall talent.
How about an offseason start of Brunson + a couple of seconds for Robinson and our '23? Don't @ me about the return; I'm presuming Nico's negotiating skills. Then a blockbuster of KP/JRich/Powell/Maxi/DFS/23/25/24 swap for Beal/Bryant/Bertans? Pretty sure we'd still have cap room after that - perhaps even enough to max Collins. Then fill out the team as needed. You have your solid big three.
My thought is that Washington gets out from under Bryant and Bertans, gets two FRPs, and DFS, the hope of rehabbing KP, with JRich and Maxi expiring and Powell being more movable than the two B's. That should be competitive with any other team's offer.
(07-28-2021, 11:12 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Betting against Luka seems quite a gamble.
It was kinda more fun and informativ this way.
Maybe not being a native speaker results in some missunderstanding now and then.
Betting against Luka with no roster improvement is no gamble at all. You saw last year, he was all-world and still got bounced. Improve the roster, then we can talk.
(07-28-2021, 11:50 AM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]Betting against Luka with no roster improvement is no gamble at all. You saw last year, he was all-world and still got bounced. Improve the roster, then we can talk.
Kawhi is out, we have around 20Mio to improve the roster.
(07-28-2021, 11:54 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Kawhi is out, we have around 20Mio to improve the roster.
Not so fast, Kawhi could pretty easily be back around next April. Mavs could be a top 4 seed, Clippers could be a bottom 4, limp in the playin or whatever, and it could be Mavs vs Clippers round 1 again.
(07-28-2021, 12:00 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: [ -> ]Not so fast, Kawhi could pretty easily be back around next April. Mavs could be a top 4 seed, Clippers could be a bottom 4, limp in the playin or whatever, and it could be Mavs vs Clippers round 1 again.
Three times is the charm.
(07-28-2021, 11:38 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]How about an offseason start of Brunson + a couple of seconds for Robinson and our '23?
If we ship Maxi and they sign Lonzo or another PG, you might have to settle for an even swap.
how much pressure could beal make to get a trade to his fav destination? i can get it that sometimes teams have to do things to don't risk other FA/Players what ever, but come on, i cant see wash trading beal for nothing big in return
(07-28-2021, 12:34 PM)Spin4177 Wrote: [ -> ]how much pressure could beal make to get a trade to his fav destination? i can get it that sometimes teams have to do things to don't risk other FA/Players what ever, but come on, i cant see wash trading beal for nothing big in return
Wizards BT: Bradley, we appreciate your years of service and loyalty to us. We understand your trade demands. Could you let us know the teams you prefer to be traded to.
BB: Lists teams.
Wizards BT would negotiate with those teams and others and probably take the best deal from the preferred list unless they get totally blown away by an outside offer.
(07-28-2021, 11:16 AM)Jakeospikez Wrote: [ -> ]Luka puts the team in win-now mode, but you're in win-now mode for the next decade+.
This. So much this.
The people who want to add Lowry are thinking like the Lakers or Brookly--teams that have a championship cornerstone with a closing window that they need to maximize right now. Dallas needs to be thinking more like Milwaukee (or San Antonio post Robinson)--we have a dynasty cornerstone who is just coming into his prime and can put us in contention for at least a decade. Instead of adding short-term assets that let us win one championship and then leaves the team hamstrung and limping along until Luka leaves in his late 20s for a better run team, we need to be getting young(er) (certainly under 30) players who can form a core that grows with Luka so that in a couple of years they are contending for a threepeat--and then, with their value enhanced by 'championship experience' rotated out for more help for a second threepeat.
People seem to think that the Mavs’ have at least 5 more years with Luka. I think it is more like 2 or 3, especially if they can’t get past the 1st round. Getting younger and worse will not make the situation better. Luka is not Giannis.
(07-28-2021, 01:15 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: [ -> ]People seem to think that the Mavs’ have at least 5 more years with Luka. I think it is more like 2 or 3, especially if they can’t get past the 1st round. Getting younger and worse will not make the situation better. Luka is not Giannis.
If a 2-3 year timeline is what we are working under, adding Lowery and raising the ceiling of the team to a second round exit isn't going to change that timeline. If Luka is going to ask out no matter the road we take, give me the road that gives us potential future assets.
(07-28-2021, 01:15 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: [ -> ]People seem to think that the Mavs’ have at least 5 more years with Luka. I think it is more like 2 or 3, especially if they can’t get past the 1st round. Getting younger and worse will not make the situation better. Luka is not Giannis.
That´s how the Cavs lost LeBron. Went all in to early and ended up with a mediocre roster that wasn´t good enough to win it all. Ended up with terrible contracts (paying luxury tax) and no remaining assets.
There is no surefire way to guarantee that Luka stays. Going all in right now and coming up short is risky. Same for a slower approach that might frustrate Luka because he is wasting prime seasons.
(07-28-2021, 01:25 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Going all in right now and coming up short is risky. Same for a slower approach that might frustrate Luka because he is wasting prime seasons.
Every move they make from now will be risky, there is no surefire thing. We can fantasize but we have no idea which top FA even wants to come, I am sure Mavs have a pretty good picture. So if Lowry is final result, I am fine. I can see it work. But just Lowry will not be enough, they will have to be creative. I think Mavs are in a three year window now ending in 2024 with Mavs potentially having cap space for two max contracts. After 2023 they will have all their picks available for great trade with expiring KP and Lowry to match salary. Of course they can always jump on a big trade if opportunity occurs. I think the most important thing for Mavs is to get to serious contender discussion. Than those last piece ring hunting stars might list Dallas as one of their prefered destination. If Lowry is an upgrade over JRich and we keep rest of core pieces, this is surely an improvement. If Lowry costs JRich and THJ, I am not so sure.
(07-28-2021, 01:25 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]That´s how the Cavs lost LeBron. Went all in to early and ended up with a mediocre roster that wasn´t good enough to win it all. Ended up with terrible contracts (paying luxury tax) and no remaining assets.
There is no surefire way to guarantee that Luka stays. Going all in right now and coming up short is risky. Same for a slower approach that might frustrate Luka because he is wasting prime seasons.
Exactly. The only way that the Mavs get better is that they get players that will outperform their new contracts. There is no way that Lowry or Conley outperform their contracts, they have already outperformed so much in their careers which are close to the end. Get some young guys like Collins, Holmes, Markannen, or Ball and hope they become all stars. Don't make moves just to make moves.
(07-28-2021, 01:39 PM)haveitall Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. The only way that the Mavs get better is that they get players that will outperform their new contracts. There is no way that Lowry or Conley outperform their contracts, they have already outperformed so much in their careers which are close to the end. Get some young guys like Collins, Holmes, Markannen, or Ball and hope they become all stars. Don't make moves just to make moves.
I don't agree at all. Every single guy you listed will be likely overpaid this summer, with the exception of Markkanen who doesn't fit on our team anyway. The crucial thing for Mavs is to improve top talent on the team. We have too many role players and lack top talent. Despite declining, Lowry is still miles better than anything we have. And fits perfectly next to Luka.
Besides, free agency is not a supermarket where you just pick whoever you want. Who says any of those guys you listed wants to come to Dallas. Powell was the only one mentioned as having Mavs on his "wishlist".