(04-06-2022, 09:25 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]... the Luka-Gobert PnR would be such a fit that it couldn't go wrong.
You have repeated that point several times, and I keep wondering how much better (if any) the Luka/Gobert PnR would be compared to the Luka/Powell PnR.
How many points per game do you estimate Gobert would add to the Mavs' offense (over and above what some other good PnR player would provide)?
(04-06-2022, 09:36 PM)Hogmelon Wrote: [ -> ]You have repeated that point several times, and I keep wondering how much better (if any) the Luka/Gobert PnR would be compared to the Luka/Powell PnR.
How many points per game, do you estimate Gobert would add to the Mavs' offense (over and above what some other good PnR player would provide)?
This is one of those things where it's impossible to say unless the two actually played. I'm going more on gut feeling here and taking various physical differences between Powell and Gobert and assuming it'd fit better.
While Powell is an elite rim roller, I think Gobert is just a better version of him. His 9'9 standing reach makes getting lobs to him much easier (theoretically) than Powell who's reach is exactly a foot shorter than Goberts at 8'9 (if you want to believe the combine measurements which are hit or miss). Gobert can jump higher. You've already pointed out that he's one of the best rim finishers in the league and he's one of the best screen setters as well.
Literally everything that we like from Powell in a PnR setting, Gobert also provides. And Gobert has done this on a team that really never looks for him at all. I imagine giving him one of the best passers we've seen in the last 10 years would only amplify his already stellar PnR production, and coupled with his elite physical gifts I can see it exceeding what we already have with Powell.
(04-06-2022, 06:58 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]While I follow your rationale, I don't agree at all. Yes, there's an extra G piece that should be used if possible to chase someone, but to me the surplus is THJ (because of lack of fit), not THJ/Brunson/whoever draws offers. Plus, I don't think the Mavs would entertain offers for JB - he's a good player and a good fit (which isn't always the case)
My post said Bullock. No mention of Brunson.
Ok. Posting in a hurry is obviously not my strength!
Personally wouldn't trade Bullock either. Mavs finally get a 3-and-D guy, and then sell him (instead of looking for more)? I wouldn't. Mavs need as many 2=way players as they can get.
Re Kleber and his shooting slump, not sure if this has been made a part of the discussion ...
But, I wonder if his shooting woes this season are intertwined to his nagging injury issues. The shot starts in the legs, and if you don't get the same spring in your feet or legs, it can easily go awry. Trying to compensate while not 100% is inevitable, but makes it all worse. The solution is to get back to 100%, but he's been in and out of the lineup all year.
If this is what's going on, then whether to trade him, and his future value here, is greatly determined by the prognosis for becoming fully healthy again. I don't even know exactly what is hurt, much less if and when he might become healed, but I think that's likely a HUGE part of the evaluation equation with him.
(04-07-2022, 11:13 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Re Kleber and his shooting slump, not sure if this has been made a part of the discussion ...
But, I wonder if his shooting woes this season are intertwined to his nagging injury issues. The shot starts in the legs, and if you don't get the same spring in your feet or legs, it can easily go awry. Trying to compensate while not 100% is inevitable, but makes it all worse. The solution is to get back to 100%, but he's been in and out of the lineup all year.
If this is what's going on, then whether to trade him, and his future value here, is greatly determined by the prognosis for becoming fully healthy again. I don't even know exactly what is hurt, much less if and when he might become healed, but I think that's likely a HUGE part of the evaluation equation with him.
There was someone who mentioned his back being an issue for him last couple years. I think about 80% this is the issue. It's also been said that playing him past 22 minutes in a game turns him into a pumpkin eventually and he's been averaging 24.6 this year. If it is a back issue, banging with bigs as a C will certainly not help the situation.
(04-07-2022, 01:22 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Ok. Posting in a hurry is obviously not my strength!
Personally wouldn't trade Bullock either. Mavs finally get a 3-and-D guy, and then sell him (instead of looking for more)? I wouldn't. Mavs need as many 2=way players as they can get.
I agree that Bullock fits a position of need and it would make more sense to trade someone who does not really fit (see THJ). I do struggle a bit with calling Bullock a two way player. He hits threes at a good percentage, but at moderate volume and he does not really do anything else offensively. He is your classic 3&D guy and a middling one at that. On the other hand, I did a little exercise on this thread or another that suggested replacing Bullock with a true 2 way player was likely going to be very expensive.
(04-07-2022, 12:10 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I agree that Bullock fits a position of need and it would make more sense to trade someone who does not really fit (see THJ). I do struggle a bit with calling Bullock a two way player. He hits threes at a good percentage, but at moderate volume and he does not really do anything else offensively. He is your classic 3&D guy and a middling one at that. On the other hand, I did a little exercise on this thread or another that suggested replacing Bullock with a true 2 way player was likely going to be very expensive.
I agree with this, and I'll go one better:
It is absolutely true that THJ doesn't fit
if he's playing the way he played this season. If he is shooting better, however, I'm not convinced he doesn't fit better than Bullock. I'm sure we all saw the graphic the other night on the Bally broadcast and learned that THJ has the #2 and #3 seasons in Mavs history (more than JET, Luka or any other sniper mainstay) in terms of 3's made. This is
taken for granted, imo.
Bullock has been better than THJ this season, imho, not because of his
defense, which I still say is vastly overrated, but because he finally got his shot going. THJ got injured before he could do that (maybe he never would have).
Don't get me wrong - I'd be fine with using THJ as a means to make a deal for an upgrade, and I think that's very possible. But, I'd also be fine with moving someone else, like Bullock, if the Mavs believe they can get THJ playing well in this system. At this point, I am starting to trust their read on things like that more than I used to.
(04-07-2022, 12:35 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]which I still say is vastly overrated
Curious on your thoughts on his defense when directly compared to Hardaway's.
(04-07-2022, 12:35 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with this, and I'll go one better:
It is absolutely true that THJ doesn't fit if he's playing the way he played this season. If he is shooting better, however, I'm not convinced he doesn't fit better than Bullock. I'm sure we all saw the graphic the other night on the Bally broadcast and learned that THJ has the #2 and #3 seasons in Mavs history (more than JET, Luka or any other sniper mainstay) in terms of 3's made. This is taken for granted, imo.
Bullock has been better than THJ this season, imho, not because of his defense, which I still say is vastly overrated, but because he finally got his shot going. THJ got injured before he could do that (maybe he never would have).
Don't get me wrong - I'd be fine with using THJ as a means to make a deal for an upgrade, and I think that's very possible. But, I'd also be fine with moving someone else, like Bullock, if the Mavs believe they can get THJ playing well in this system. At this point, I am starting to trust their read on things like that more than I used to.
What do you think about how THJ and Bullock compare on defense?
(04-07-2022, 12:46 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]Curious on your thoughts on his defense when directly compared to Hardaway's.
Better, but not
nearly as much better as the gap that's assumed here.
I think Bullock is much more average defensively than the credit he's given around here. I think people read that he's "a good defender" this summer when he was signed and just rolled with it. When I watch, he gets blown by a TON. Much, much more than people like Brunson, DFS...even Dinwiddie or Hardaway. Less than Luka, but that's a matter of engagement, imo. When Luka
wants to defend, I feel like he can.
I do think Bullock gets around screens better than several defenders on this team, especially
off-ball screens, which are very important when you're guarding a shooter. It's literally just guarding an on-ball creator when I think he's out of his depth a bit. He's not even in the same league there as DFS, for example.
Hardaway, imo, is the exact opposite. I've seen him do GREAT things when guarding a scorer 1-on-1. His problems seem to happen most often when he loses focus defending off-ball. Knowing when to help, and how, knowing when/where to rotate so that others can help, etc. To me,
this can be
taught and
learned. Of course, "can be" and "will be" are very different things.
(04-07-2022, 12:35 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with this, and I'll go one better:
It is absolutely true that THJ doesn't fit if he's playing the way he played this season. If he is shooting better, however, I'm not convinced he doesn't fit better than Bullock. I'm sure we all saw the graphic the other night on the Bally broadcast and learned that THJ has the #2 and #3 seasons in Mavs history (more than JET, Luka or any other sniper mainstay) in terms of 3's made. This is taken for granted, imo.
Bullock has been better than THJ this season, imho, not because of his defense, which I still say is vastly overrated, but because he finally got his shot going. THJ got injured before he could do that (maybe he never would have).
Don't get me wrong - I'd be fine with using THJ as a means to make a deal for an upgrade, and I think that's very possible. But, I'd also be fine with moving someone else, like Bullock, if the Mavs believe they can get THJ playing well in this system. At this point, I am starting to trust their read on things like that more than I used to.
I would agree that Bullock defense has been overrated (not sure about vastly). He is an average wing defender (maybe a touch above). He is a better defender than THJ, but the difference is not as big as it sometimes is made out. The problem is that we only really have two plus defenders in our top 8 guys (Maxi and DFS) so the difference between Bullock and THJ gets somewhat magnified.
(04-07-2022, 01:15 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is that we only really have two plus defenders in our top 8 guys (Maxi and DFS) so the difference between Bullock and THJ gets somewhat magnified.
I think this is a valid point.
But, I'd put Powell on the list of "plus defenders," too. Much more so than Bullock. I know that won't be popular, but I believe it and would feel like a coward if I didn't state it.
(04-07-2022, 01:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think this is a valid point.
But, I'd put Powell on the list of "plus defenders," too. Much more so than Bullock. I know that won't be popular, but I believe it and would feel like a coward if I didn't state it.
And yet last year you harped on KP being a C that wasn’t a deterrent at the rim which if I remember correctly you stated was the most important job of the C. I agree that he’s good enough to be a switchable defender on the perimeter and it is an important quality. Just think your definition changed a bit for expectations over the year.
(04-07-2022, 01:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think this is a valid point.
But, I'd put Powell on the list of "plus defenders," too. Much more so than Bullock. I know that won't be popular, but I believe it and would feel like a coward if I didn't state it.
I think the disconnect between DP's value in the current defensive system and the forum's opinion of his defense is based on what folks look for in a defensive center. People see DP's size, see him get scored on inside some, see a bigger center get an offensive rebound and conclude that DP sucks and can't play defense. Folks can't get past their vision of what a center is "supposed to be" so that they could look objectively at what this current defensive system is good at, which includes what DP is good at.
(04-07-2022, 01:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think this is a valid point.
But, I'd put Powell on the list of "plus defenders," too. Much more so than Bullock. I know that won't be popular, but I believe it and would feel like a coward if I didn't state it.
I'm not quite willing to go that far, but I will say that one of the reasons I hated the trade is that it meant we would see significant minutes of single big Powell. I expected that to be a complete disaster. He has done surprisingly well defensively in that capacity to the point that I would probably lump him in the Bullock bucket.
Honestly, I look at the Maxi, Powell and Bullock similarly. All are quality rotation players that are maybe stretched just a little thin right now due to necessity. Next year with some big help (preferably a starting center) and Green taking the next step will allow all three to settle in to more comfortable fitting roles.
(04-07-2022, 01:27 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]And yet last year you harped on KP being a C that wasn’t a deterrent at the rim which if I remember correctly you stated was the most important job of the C.
Not speaking for KL, but I believe that his problem with KP's defense was that KP can't stay in front of folks and gets torched on switches and by guards that take points like candy from a baby when KP drops.
The thing about the rim protection is that during the period where KP couldn't protect the rim he sucked not only at staying in front of folks, but couldn't protect the rim either.
Is Josh Green not in the top 8 or something? He's definitely a plus defender. If there's a stat that says he isn't, it's likely a really bad stat.
Powell's definitely been a plus defender in Kidd's system. Perfect fit for him.
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