I get the JC obsession, he is a nice fit on paper, but have you guys seen his defense?
Defense is what made this team go to to the 2nd round, defense is why this is a dangerous team. Why not build on that? JC is just bad, and with him as a C, the defense would be just... Well swiss cheese like.
Whenever you are interested in a player I suggest you go to RealGM, to the Teams forum and see what their fans think about that player.
At least we now know who is most valuable to winning in the playoffs. 6 guys really stand out:
Luka
JB
Bullock
DFS
Maxi
Dinwiddie
I think the goal should be to add to that group
(04-29-2022, 06:15 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]At least we now know who is most valuable to winning in the playoffs. 6 guys really stand out:
Luka
JB
Bullock
DFS
Maxi
Dinwiddie
I think the goal should be to add to that group
I agree, with the added thought that Maxi and SD’s contributions are from the bench. That means 1 starter and at least 1 bench player need to be identified and acquired. I think Powell would work just fine as the 1 bench piece, which leaves 1 starter before we can see what that team looks like and make smaller upgrades from there.
It certainly seems like the Mavs do best in the playoffs playing 5-out on offense. So if they target another starter at center, it should preferably be one who can shoot.
(04-28-2022, 05:08 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]There is a very obvious and simple solution that improves the centre and doesn't move Bertans to 5th big, if that is a problem. Outgoing salary is either Maxi or Powell. You still improve the position and Bertans keeps his role.
Do you see both of them signing new long term contracts next year? Long in their thirties. Best time to move them is either summer or TDL.
This has been my take. Maxi is good and important, but I think he is the most likely to be moved for an upgrade. His skill will not be easy to replace but I think that is the spot you try to get better at.
(04-29-2022, 12:13 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Atlanta might explore his trade market, but probably only for a clear cut upgrade.
No "might" from Jake Fischer. He said everyone around the league expects JC to be heavily shopped AGAIN.
And I 100% disagree a "clear cut upgrade" will be the asking price.
ATL just desperately needs to shake things up. JC has been a poor fit chemistry wise for them ever since Trae came along for whatever reason. This summer will be like the third time they have seriously explored trading him. I will be shocked if it doesn't happen.
(04-29-2022, 06:51 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I agree, with the added thought that Maxi and SD’s contributions are from the bench. That means 1 starter and at least 1 bench player need to be identified and acquired. I think Powell would work just fine as the 1 bench piece, which leaves 1 starter before we can see what that team looks like and make smaller upgrades from there.
Agree with all of this. I think THJ would actually be on that list if healthy, but he does not really seem to fit what Kidd wants to do. I'm also hoping that Green develops into that bench piece. It would be great if he could relieve some of the pressure off DFS and Bullock.
Collins really is the ideal fit. He is a better rebounder and rim protector than Powell, and he is so versatile on offense. Our defense would improve, not so much because he is a great defender, but he can play with either Powell or Maxi allowing for more overall size without taking a big hit to perimeter defense.
The problem is how to get him. I don't think THJ and our pick will be enough. Are we willing to send out our 27 protected as well?
(04-29-2022, 07:05 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]This has been my take. Maxi is good and important, but I think he is the most likely to be moved for an upgrade. His skill will not be easy to replace but I think that is the spot you try to get better at.
Are we trying to get better at Maxi spot? He is a backup center who could be a backup 4 on a differently constructed roster. I would argue it is Powell spot we are trying to improve. If you have to send Maxi out to get a starting center then you do it, but Maxi is an even better fit on this roster if we get that center.
And I will say again, I will lose my shit if we make any kind of roster decision to get Bertans his minutes. He played less than 10 minutes a game (and some of that was garbage time) in a playoff series when we were terribly thin in the front court. In fact, if Cuban is chocking on the tax bill after signing Brunson to a big contract, and it is hampering other moves we want to make, I could live with stretch waiving Bertans. That would lessen the tax hit as well as the roster crunch.
(04-29-2022, 07:36 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]No "might" from Jake Fischer. He said everyone around the league expects JC to be heavily shopped AGAIN.
And I 100% disagree a "clear cut upgrade" will be the asking price.
ATL just desperately needs to shake things up. JC has been a poor fit chemistry wise for them ever since Trae came along for whatever reason. This summer will be like the third time they have seriously explored trading him. I will be shocked if it doesn't happen.
Is it since Trae came along, or since Capela? I feel like Capela operating in his space was a real hit for him.
I am so confused by this thread. We just benched (or cut) all our centers so we could play 5 out with Maxi at the 5. When it really mattered, we sat Maxi and played with Luka at the 5 (some say Doe-Doe) so that Maxi’s iffy long ball wouldn’t be the game decider. Now we want to ship Maxi out or move him to the 4?
No chance that happens. Maxi is what makes 5 out work. We need a second Maxi to play both at the 5. Not to move Maxi.
(04-29-2022, 10:28 AM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]I am so confused by this thread. We just benched (or cut) all our centers so we could play 5 out with Maxi at the 5. When it really mattered, we sat Maxi and played with Luka at the 5 (some say Doe-Doe) so that Maxi’s iffy long ball wouldn’t be the game decider. Now we want to ship Maxi out or move him to the 4?
No chance that happens. Maxi is what makes 5 out work. We need a second Maxi to play both at the 5. Not to move Maxi.
A couple of things:
This series was perfectly suited to 5 out due to how they play Gobert on defense, and the fact that Gobert was not punishing us for small ball. That wont be the case against the Suns. We will likely play our traditional offense in that series, which is about half P&R with Powell and half 5 out with Maxi. Don't imagine we will be able to get away with a lot of small ball in that one. Those two have to stay healthy and play well for us to have a chance.
Who out there is a second Maxi? Turner is an even better defensive player, but he is a worse 3 point shooter. Don't get me wrong, I would love to bring Turner in here, but I don't think he is going to generate a ton of 5 out offense. Collins would be great for 5 out offense, but not really close to Maxi defensively. I would love to have either of those guys, but I'm not sure Turner is for sale anymore and Collins is probably too expensive. Is there anybody else who fits the Maxi paradigm?
Turner's 3PT shooting is kind of weird in the sense that he's below-average at corner threes but above-average at above-the-break threes. So you couldn't use him exactly like Maxi in this series, but a center good at shooting above-the-break is probably more valuable, both for usage in the pick-and-roll and getting back on defense.
[attachment=39 Wrote:mvossman pid='136432' dateline='1651249758']
Who out there is a second Maxi?
(04-29-2022, 07:36 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]JC has been a poor fit chemistry wise for them ever since Trae came along for whatever reason.
Any chance that ATL starts to wonder whether Trae can take this team anywhere important? Especially if the other players aren't fitting with Trae? They made the ECF last year, but have not lived up to expectations this year. Seems like last year's success put a target on their back for this year.
Trae is a very good offensive talent, but I'm not sure how much he elevates the team and MIA just demo'd how to negate his contribution. I know he just signed a MAX contract (could be Super MAX if Trae makes an all-NBA team this year.) but I might at least go through the thought experiment of trading Trae for players with a more balanced game. Not sure what/who that would be right now.
(04-28-2022, 03:25 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]One could argue adding a microwave scorer would do wonders... Mavs have THJ waiting for that role too. .
By "microwave" do you mean a scorer who is streaky - sometimes all-world hitting shots from everythere, and sometimes can't hit anything? And you insert him in hopes he will be hot and give a boost?
If so ...
1 I do think that's a good view of THJ, and
2 I suspect that, given the choice between 2 players whose overall pcts are the same, Kidd would much rather have the guy who is less streaky and more consistent. As I see it, they don't need yet another guy who would dominate the ball, but instead needs ones who can regularly make shots when called upon, and contribute in other ways when not.
I do think Kidd will find a suitable role for THJ is he is here next year. But I expect he would rather turn him into a different *more suitable to the system" player via trade.
(04-29-2022, 12:39 PM)michaeltex Wrote: [ -> ]Any chance that ATL starts to wonder whether Trae can take this team anywhere important? Especially if the other players aren't fitting with Trae? They made the ECF last year, but have not lived up to expectations this year. Seems like last year's success put a target on their back for this year.
Trae is a very good offensive talent, but I'm not sure how much he elevates the team and MIA just demo'd how to negate his contribution. I know he just signed a MAX contract (could be Super MAX if Trae makes an all-NBA team this year.) but I might at least go through the thought experiment of trading Trae for players with a more balanced game. Not sure what/who that would be right now.
This is a good analysis, but it leads to a really hard question --- What team is out there that would want Trae on a max, or super-max, contract and would give ATL all that much to be stuck with him?
It's a good theory to "cash in" on his value while it's high, but I wonder if that ship has sailed.
(04-29-2022, 12:07 AM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Has either of those guys (CJ or John) had a series like JB just did? Maybe they have and I just don’t recall it. But man, I am having a hard time thinking either of them are in the same spectrum as Jalen.
McCollum had a similar series against DEN during their lone trip the WCF. Averaged 26/6/3 on 46/38/77.
Collins hasn't come anywhere close to that. But then again we're asking him to be a better offensive version of Maxi.
(04-29-2022, 12:57 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]McCollum had a similar series against DEN during their lone trip the WCF. Averaged 26/6/3 on 46/38/77.
Collins hasn't come anywhere close to that. But then again we're asking him to be a better offensive version of Maxi.
It's not a reasonable or rational standard to think that 'anything better than Maxi' (who is paid less than MLE) is worth max money (which Collins is getting). If you're paying max (or giving value to get such a player), you need to be getting MAX-worthy production.
In a league where your payroll is limited, and choices have to be made, that's a real life concern.
If Maxi gives you most of the value at a fraction of the price, it may be wiser not to allocate massive parts of your payroll to Collins. Collins, for all his various skills we see at times, is well short of max level in his regular season production, and his playoff numbers this year were fairly mediocre, and last year as well. If we had him, we'd be wondering how we can upgrade him to someone who is a difference maker, and bemoaning the contract that is making that difficult.
(04-29-2022, 01:58 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]It's not a reasonable or rational standard to think that 'anything better than Maxi' (who is paid less than MLE) is worth max money (which Collins is getting). If you're paying max (or giving value to get such a player), you need to be getting MAX-worthy production.
In a league where your payroll is limited, and choices have to be made, that's a real life concern.
If Maxi gives you most of the value at a fraction of the price, it may be wiser not to allocate massive parts of your payroll to Collins. Collins, for all his various skills we see at times, is well short of max level in his regular season production, and his playoff numbers this year were fairly mediocre, and last year as well. If we had him, we'd be wondering how we can upgrade him to someone who is a difference maker, and bemoaning the contract that is making that difficult.
His production does take a hit when he shares the floor with Capela though so you have to take that into consideration. If he were the featured rim runner he'd be involved in a lot more plays instead of standing in the corner being Maxi. Also he's coming off an injury, might have been rushed back a little bit for the playin + playoffs. Maybe even less than Maxi since I guess Maxi in 5 out does a lot of pick n pop. More like Maxi in a Maxi + Powell lineup.
The title of this thread "DAL would have "significant interest" in Gobert"
After watching this series, is there anyone that still thinks the Mavs should give up significant or even above average assets to obtain Gobert?!
Still 4 years - 170M remaining on that contract
Age 30: 38M
Age 31: 41M
Age 32: 44M
Age 33: 46.6M
12 PPG in 33 MPG with a minus-23