Gobert really caused a lot of problems. Hopefully Powell can play in this series. Josh Green seems like he could be a pest vs both CP3 and Booker. If he can actually attack the rim instead of getting deleted by Gobert he might be able to play too. Some early 3s would do a lot for the confidence.
(04-29-2022, 06:24 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]Bullock was sick. Maybe other players weren't well. I thought Kleber looked slow too. It could just be that this team was on a near-empty tank.
They need to find some other contributors off the bench for this next series. Six players won't cut it.
They had 3 days rest between G 5 and G 6. Shouldn't have been on an empty tank, given that.
Maybe they had some sickness going through the team, not just Bullock, that limited minutes and forced some to carry extra load? If RB was sick, that's what I'd wager.
As for pure numbers, it's NOT that big of a deal. They're like everyone else: teams have 10 guys regularly used during the season, shorten it a bit in the playoffs, and then 5 who don't play that often. If you count THJ as part of the regular roster (which he otherwise would be), they too have at least 8 regulars plus 2 almost-regulars (Green and Bertans), which is the norm like other teams.
So do we still want Zach Lavine? Seems he´s headed for knee surgery on his left knee (the one with the previously torn ACL) and the reports that he is considering his future, might sugges the Bulls are not that interested in a max extension, which seemed a foregone conclusion after the Bulls start.
The idea of Brunson, Lavine, Doncic seems pretty tempting, assuming it would be THJ + Powell + 2 future 1st round picks going the other way, but I doubt the Mavs will take another chance so shortly after the whole Porzingis injury debacle.
Comparing Gobert's value to KP is a little off base. The only similarity would be league wide knowledge that their teams wanted to get off of them. Rudy has way less red flags when it comes to health and has an elite skillset. And while I want no part of him, I think some team(s) will desire that skillset and Utah will return assets for him. It may be a modest return but we paid to get off of KP and got two players that the Wizards wanted to get rid of, one with a terrible contract in its' own right and we had to pay a pick to get it done.
(04-29-2022, 08:23 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Comparing Gobert's value to KP is a little off base. The only similarity would be league wide knowledge that their teams wanted to get off of them. Rudy has way less red flags when it comes to health and has an elite skillset. And while I want no part of him, I think some team(s) will desire that skillset and Utah will return assets for him. It may be a modest return but we paid to get off of KP and got two players that the Wizards wanted to get rid of, one with a terrible contract in its' own right and we had to pay a pick to get it done.
Yeah, Gobert will command a much bigger return even now than Dallas KP ever would.
Gobert's skill may be one-dimensional, but he's at the very top of the food chain in terms of rim protection. And he's not that old. His credentials will bring in some interest. Utah should get a good return.
- 5 All-Defensive Team
- 4 All-NBA
- 3 NBA Defensive Player of the Year
(04-29-2022, 06:50 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe they had some sickness going through the team
When Luka disappeared into the lockerroom for the end of the 1st half I suspected he was sitting on the toilet. Who knows.
(04-29-2022, 01:58 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]It's not a reasonable or rational standard to think that 'anything better than Maxi' (who is paid less than MLE) is worth max money (which Collins is getting). If you're paying max (or giving value to get such a player), you need to be getting MAX-worthy production.
Collins has averaged close to 20ppg on incredible efficiency the last 4 years. Is that not worth max money? He also has all the tools to be a switchable big on defense with the right motivation.
Could he not grow and become a good defensive player under Kidd? The same coach that turned Powell into a plus defender?
IF Collins became that is that not max-worthy production? He's also only 24 years old.
(04-29-2022, 06:58 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]So do we still want Zach Lavine?
Not at option. ZL is a FA. The Mavs are ineligible to get anyone who will be a FA this summer (with a starting salary > 6Mish).
(04-29-2022, 10:26 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Collins has averaged close to 20ppg on incredible efficiency the last 4 years. Is that not worth max money? He also has all the tools to be a switchable big on defense with the right motivation.
Could he not grow and become a good defensive player under Kidd? The same coach that turned Powell into a plus defender?
IF Collins became that is that not max-worthy production? He's also only 24 years old.
Collins was a plus defender before Trae Young arrived. If the current set-up is the way forward then Collins should be high on the target list.
The guy that will haunt us forever is Jarrett Allen. Dante Exum, a very late 1st round pick and an early 2nd round pick for Allen/Prince. Given the stupid amount of picks we spend on Richardson/Wright´s equal performance levels to Prince (and his contract), we basically could have traded Trey Burke for Jarrett Allen.
(04-29-2022, 03:53 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]"if Ainge wants to go big, there is really only one way to do it. He’d have to trade Gobert."
To have a little feeling about what some think Gobert value might be, 5 potential destinations:
1. Charlotte for Hayward, PJ Washington, #13, #15 and additional 2 unprotected FRP
2. Atlanta: Capella, Collins, #16 and Jalen Johnson for Gobert and Gay
3. Toronto: not likely, interesting one Siakam straight up
4. New York: unlikely, but perhaps Fournier, Reddish, Noel, #11 and 2 2023 FRP (own and Dallas)
5. Memphis: Jackson and Gobert would be lethal. Can structure a gazillion possible packages
Gobert is an All-Star, the best defensive player of his era and a screen-setting, rim-running gravity device. He’s also an odd player to build around because he plays 95 percent of the game without the ball. As I outlined at the top, it’s easy to see where the breadcrumbs lead on Gobert trade possibilities, but given his rare skill set, it may ultimately come down to a question that is completely out of Utah’s hands: Are other teams willing to give up a JRue or George type of package to get Gobert.
Hollinger: Is this au revoir? Why trading Rudy Gobert may be the Jazz’s only option, and what deals could work - The Athletic
I tend to agree with Hollinger that the packages for Gobert will be better than we can realistically offer. I think I would still go hard at Gobert, but I just don't think we have the offer. I didn't think about Memphis. Interesting. They can really target a player they want with all their assets.
I still think Myles Turner is probably the most realistic offer. Him being a FA sooner and injury concerns should lower price. I don't think THJ is going to be the player in the trade though. I would speculate maybe Maxi or Dwight, Josh Green and our first. Something like that. The question is if Josh Green is off limits in this type of trade? Indy could have offers from the teams who missed out on Gobert that Dallas may need to make a decision there.
I don't think a big trade is going to be a possibility for any position.
I think realistically, we target players like Nic Claxton or Hartenstein, and trade for serious bench upgrades. If we trade big, it will need to be with THJ salary, but at this point THj is a player that has come off our bench and performed well. So he still looks promising for Mavs depth if he stays. Whatever we get for THJ better be seriously good.
I think it would be in our best interest to trade Powell and\or Maxi but even with picks that won't be enough for big name centers. Too many other teams have the picks to finish the deal.
I wouldn't be upset with that either. If we ended up with Claxton and upgraded 3-4 solid rotation players (better specialists), it might be enough to go deep. But I think it's more realistic to imagine a better rotation than a positional stud.
(04-29-2022, 11:08 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Not at option. ZL is a FA. The Mavs are ineligible to get anyone who will be a FA this summer (with a starting salary > 6Mish).
As far as I can tell we are at $153M and the apron will be around $155M, so it at least becomes an option, if Brunson decides to just walk. I guess you are correct that Brunson + Lavine is not an option.
So, what about Patrick Williams if PJ Washington is an option? The two are kinda comparable with PJ having 3 years on Patrick. PJ is more of a straight upgrade to Maxi with his block #s, but other than that, I wonder if going into the offseason with at least those 2 names in mind as trade targets (getting 1 of the 2) would upgrade this team and make them younger. Patrick was rumored at one time to be on the block I believe. Wonder if that would still be the case? Only problem I would have is if the cost is DFS (Can you believe this cow and KL? There might be a trade involving DFS that I hesitate on!), which is who I think Chi would target (they need defense in the worst way). Bullock I might do though for the youth and potential.
(04-30-2022, 06:13 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]As far as I can tell we are at $153M and the apron will be around $155M, so it at least becomes an option, if Brunson decides to just walk. I guess you are correct that Brunson + Lavine is not an option.
We are basically at the apron when you count the pick. Technically, we can sign a free agent if we send out enough salary to get under the apron after the trade. But, as you point out, that means losing Brunson for nothing AND we'd have to trade away more than we bring back. It isn't impossible, but as you try to play out various scenarios, the likelihood is really really low. Thus FGump's shorthand..."we can't trade for FA's".
IGT: The trade talk regarding Patrick Williams was only in the case of a deal where they could add the final veteran piece to the roster. I actually think they had higher aspirations than even DFS (if that is even possible) in any deal for Williams. So, you are correct that it would take at least Dorian to get Williams...a deal I wouldn't do.
(04-30-2022, 06:46 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]PJ is more of a straight upgrade to Maxi with his block #s
Actually Maxi has a little better block numbers than PJ, and is a better defender by a bit. PJ is the better offensive player and I would say they are similar overall. Of course the big difference is that PJ is not even 24 yet and has some room to grow. He would be a good get, but I'm not sure what that trade would look like?
Possibilities I see:
1. Trading Maxi for a better 5-out center? Fat chance.
2. Getting Maxi to hit 3s like he did last year? That doesn’t seem unrealistic to me.
3. Trading THJ, Josh and our pick for a wing who defends like Josh and shoots like Tim (only not streaky)? Fat chance.
4. Getting Tim to return to form and Josh to start hitting 3s at a league-average rate while still improving on defense and drives? Doesn’t seem unrealistic to me.
5. Finding anyone to take that Bertans contract—even with our pick—in exchange for something useful? Fat chance.
6. Getting something serviceable at the 5 position (in addition to Maxi) from a combo of steady Dwight and an improving Marquis? Much more realistic in my mind.
(04-30-2022, 02:38 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Possibilities I see:
1. Trading Maxi for a better 5-out center? Fat chance.
2. Getting Maxi to hit 3s like he did last year? That doesn’t seem unrealistic to me.
3. Trading THJ, Josh and our pick for a wing who defends like Josh and shoots like Tim (only not streaky)? Fat chance.
4. Getting Tim to return to form and Josh to start hitting 3s at a league-average rate while still improving on defense and drives? Doesn’t seem unrealistic to me.
5. Finding anyone to take that Bertans contract—even with our pick—in exchange for something useful? Fat chance.
6. Getting something serviceable at the 5 position (in addition to Maxi) from a combo of steady Dwight and an improving Marquis? Much more realistic in my mind.
So you are saying the only realistic option is to run it back. I think that is a little pessimistic. Trading THJ our pick and maybe Green is a reasonable package to get a starting center.
(04-30-2022, 04:15 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]So you are saying the only realistic option is to run it back. I think that is a little pessimistic. Trading THJ our pick and maybe Green is a reasonable package to get a starting center.
Won’t get you a center who can defend 5 out. Might get you one who can hit 3s, like Gallinari. Don’t think he’d start.
Realistic to think we’ll trade pieces for something useful, sure. A starting center or wing? Nope. Not unless you put DFS on the block.
(04-30-2022, 07:44 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Won’t get you a center who can defend 5 out. Might get you one who can hit 3s, like Gallinari. Don’t think he’d start.
Realistic to think we’ll trade pieces for something useful, sure. A starting center or wing? Nope. Not unless you put DFS on the block.
Find a way to draft Mark Williams. I think that's the best answer.