MavsBoard

(06-04-2022, 10:48 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]1 I like Burks a lot. But doubt NY wants to let him go. Also have questions about how the fit with Bullock, as they were together in NY before RB left

2 Cant use TE on any free agent since it expires in June.

3 SNT issue also precludes Bamba (and is he all that good anyhow?) ...I assume he will get offers too big for Mavs to pay, too

4 I get the idea that finding a better center will be hard, and some ideas may not prove to be helpful ... but the Mavs seem to agree its time to move on from DP, right? I have some guys I would GUESS might work and be available, but the answers aren't easy to know.

5 The idea that the need for playoff-playable wing depth might be solved by some combo of THJ and Franky/Green improvements is imo a reasonable solution, and possible, instead of a trade for someone.

6 While they are somewhat hard to find, I bet there are other Maxi's out there. The issue will be to find one who is available, and at a modest price.

7 I am very skeptical that PJ Washington would be the answer - don't even think he's a C at 6-7. However, he might be useful as a big wing, at the 4, but not likely to be available anyway, I suspect.

Mavs FO should spend a few quality hours reviewing tape of Centers/Front Court Players they like and draft one they are most confident in.  Throw out the past("Mavs suck at drafting" or "hitting on pick 26th is low" talk)...if there is no easy solution right now available for trade...dont waste a pick and cheap contract by trading it for some scrub that is plug and play...draft a guy.   If he doesnt work out as planned...include him in a trade for a Center that does become available that checks all your boxes in the near future.

Is that not reasonable? Or is that just "not how its done" in the NBA?

(06-04-2022, 11:44 AM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs FO should spend a few quality hours reviewing tape of Centers/Front Court Players they like and draft one they are most confident in.  Throw out the past("Mavs suck at drafting" or "hitting on pick 26th is low" talk)...if there is no easy solution right now available for trade...dont waste a pick and cheap contract by trading it for some scrub that is plug and play...draft a guy.   If he doesnt work out as planned...include him in a trade for a Center that does become available that checks all your boxes in the near future.

Is that not reasonable? Or is that just "not how its done" in the NBA?

Right!

Just need to upgrade all our players, then win multiple championships.  Or, if they don't, then criticize a lot.

Super easy!

(06-04-2022, 11:44 AM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs FO should spend a few quality hours reviewing tape of Centers/Front Court Players they like and draft one they are most confident in

I agree. 

But the Mavs don't have the best track record of just picking the best player available. So fan confidence is pretty low in general for that to materialize.

Plus, there is a case to be made for plugging veteran leadership into the rotation during this window of time.

Having said all that, there's a new FO now. Fans will just have to cross their fingers.

Drafting is really not that difficult for the new MBT. You just call the old Mavs scouts:

Who is the best player on your board left?
Josh Green.
Okay now who is the absolute worst guy?
Tyrese Maxey.
Okay.

Who is the best player left now?
Well it´s Tyrell Terry.
And who would be the worst?
Desmond Bane, but Memphis will probably take him at 29.
Okay. Guy call the Lakers we trading up to #28.
....but I said he´s the worst.
Sssssh. Adults on the phone.

Give me Gobert:

Also very interested in Jusuf Nurkic. 

What will his price be? Would he settle for the tax payer MLE to play with Luka? 

I think when he is healthy and on the court he is one of the best bigs in the league.

(06-04-2022, 05:34 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Also very interested in Jusuf Nurkic. 

What will his price be? Would he settle for the tax payer MLE to play with Luka? 

I think when he is healthy and on the court he is one of the best bigs in the league.

I think ultimately, he´ll re-up with Portland, cause that´s the place that makes most sense: money + role. If he does not want to play there anymore, then we certainly come into play. 



I remember when Cuban had a premature ejaculation over VAJ and in the end the same money could have signed Julius Randle, Brook Lopez AND DeMarcus Cousins that summer. Let´s hope the new MBT is a lot smarter.


The legit contenders that need starting centers like Golden State or Brooklyn will likely try to re-sign their own free agents on the cheap like Drummond and Looney, same goes for the play-off contenders like Portland (Nurkic), New York (Robinson) and Charlotte (Harrell + draft a center at euither #13 or #15).

Nobody has a better package of starting role, age timeline and projected future salary than us.

The free agent spots like Houston and Detroit aren´t exactly destinations or/and have a few young centers already plus incoming high end draft picks. Detroit doesn´t even have that much capspace considering MB III has a $28M caphold. So they have to get his extension over the line quickly to even have the necessary money to pay somebody like Ayton.


Imho people will be surprised what you can get for $6.8M or whatever the exact number is.

Outside of the trade and draft options, I´m pretty confident that we can get one of Hartenstein, Smith or Bryant (all 25 or younger) to bite on our offer. And if they stay with their respective teams that means Zubac, Gafford and Bitadze should be available, who are also very capable young centers.

(06-04-2022, 11:44 AM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs FO should spend a few quality hours reviewing tape of Centers/Front Court Players they like and draft one they are most confident in.  Throw out the past("Mavs suck at drafting" or "hitting on pick 26th is low" talk)...if there is no easy solution right now available for trade...dont waste a pick and cheap contract by trading it for some scrub that is plug and play...draft a guy.   If he doesnt work out as planned...include him in a trade for a Center that does become available that checks all your boxes in the near future.

Is that not reasonable? Or is that just "not how its done" in the NBA?

I mostly agree. As I see it ...

The idea that you look for a replacement center in the draft is logical. And I agree that the Mavs need to do the scouting and analysis at an expert level to get someone who will pan out and be able to play a regular role eventually, rather than draft with an assumption of likely failure. And I agree they need to take the swing at drafting a guy, and developing, to develop their own skill at drafting. There's no substitute for trying and failing, and learning from the mistakes. Do one draftee a year, every year, and an UDFA if they have no pick, until they start figuring it out and become great. THERE IS NO SHORTCUT AND CUBAN HAS AVOIDED THE DRAFT AND LOOKED FOR ONE FOR 20 YEARS - TO THE TEAM'S DETRIMENT.

About the center, the challenge is that the Mavs need someone NOW ... and unless you are drafting in the top 10 (and often even not then), whoever you draft is not going to be ready to be a regular until a year or three from now. For example, Chriss was a top 10 pick a few years ago - and now he's a deep backup still in need of improvement before he can get minutes. While there are exceptions at times, you can't plan on your guy being an exception to the truth that almost all the guys entering the league just aren't good enough to rely on yet. It will take time.

Centers tend to take a bit longer. But you need to draft someone, center or not, BPA since you need to be penciling in that they will be ready to really help in 2023 or 2024 if they develop like you expect. And needs will be different then, so a wing or a point or a big can all be valuable if they can play and are cheap. Then get to work.

(06-04-2022, 05:26 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Give me Gobert:

It looks like the chart you provided shows he's a bad solution, not a good one. Yes? // Oh wait, maybe that was umm Kanter? I dunno.

Man I sure do hate those charts with player pictures rather than names. No idea who most of them are supposed to be, which makes such charts fairly meaningless as a tool for understanding and comparing.

(06-04-2022, 08:48 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]It looks like the chart you provided shows he's a bad solution, not a good one. Yes? // Oh wait, maybe that was umm Kanter? I dunno.

Man I sure do hate those charts with player pictures rather than names. No idea who most of them are supposed to be, which makes such charts fairly meaningless as a tool for understanding and comparing.

Seriously? Don’t you watch the games?

(06-04-2022, 06:23 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Outside of the trade and draft options, I´m pretty confident that we can get one of Hartenstein, Smith or Bryant (all 25 or younger) to bite on our offer. And if they stay with their respective teams that means Zubac, Gafford and Bitadze should be available, who are also very capable young centers.

Smith/Hartenstein the most popular choices for tpmle, but Bryant is pretty solid too. If a trade can be worked out for a true starting 5 (while keeping Maxi) with one of these guys coming off the bench, it should set things up pretty well cause Maxi can go back to playing some 4 which gives DFS his needed rest. Bryant should be easier to get cause of his injury history and maybe some lost mobility due to it, but if he's a backup big to the traded guy, him getting injured isn't the end of the world. Some decent upside there with all 3 of em.


The charts with the player pictures are really bad when they're all overlapping each other and you can't really see anything. That pic that is spread out is fine.

(06-04-2022, 06:23 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]The free agent spots like Houston and Detroit aren´t exactly destinations or/and have a few young centers already plus incoming high end draft picks. Detroit doesn´t even have that much capspace considering MB III has a $28M caphold. So they have to get his extension over the line quickly to even have the necessary money to pay somebody like Ayton.

Imho people will be surprised what you can get for $6.8M or whatever the exact number is.

Outside of the trade and draft options, I´m pretty confident that we can get one of Hartenstein, Smith or Bryant (all 25 or younger) to bite on our offer. And if they stay with their respective teams that means Zubac, Gafford and Bitadze should be available, who are also very capable young centers.

I doubt Bagley presents any issues to DET. Does he even get a QO from them? I wouldn't offer one. And letting go of his Bird rights whenever room is needed (if that should happen) is not a big deal.

Your list makes sense, though not sure I'd be all that interested in some of them. We're looking for an upgrade and some seem to me to be warm bodies who are big, but perhaps not playable in big games. As much as I'm ready to move on from Powell, change just for the sake of change is even less appealing imo.

Mavs MLE should be close to 6.2M. I hope you are right in thinking it will be able to land someone desirable who can be a useful regular. I hope Cuban will be incredibly willing to spend that MLE, and the TPE too, assuming they find a player who can be a regular, rather than cry poverty (or feign inability to have a use for either). I have long been interested in Holmes using the TPE and think a Powell for Holmes deal is one that has promise (including ways to include others as needed on either side, ways to keep from being even more buried in tax by moving the TPE to the future in such a deal, so to speak, and more).

Based on that chart...

Is Turner not best bang for your buck plus more versatile than Gobert?

Or are we factoring in injury concerns too heavily?  Does Turner even have a serious injury or just always nagging injuries keeping him out?

Or am I reading the chart the wrong way?

(06-04-2022, 08:54 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Seriously? Don’t you watch the games?

Yes but ...

Names are easier. Recognizing every player by sight without any contextual clues is not. One player can be confused for another, which then really messes up the understanding. It takes way more time and work on my part (and the point of a chart is supposed to be to condense info to make it EASY to see and compare.) So I usually just scroll on by, even if such a chart is supposed to contain something I might want to know. Charts using team logos are mostly the same - they make it much harder to read, because it demands I do the work of trying to figure out which logo denotes which team. Some are easy, some are easy to confuse with others if you aren't in that market..

That chart is saying that Gobert has defended almost the most pick and rolls over the last five years (why he is at the far right) and is by far the best defending them by holding opponents to 0.88 PPP over that time frame. Kanter, DP, and Jokic are the three worst that have faces.

Turner does a pretty good job on that chart while also being cheaper and better offensively than Gobert.

(06-04-2022, 09:16 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I doubt Bagley presents any issues to DET. Does he even get a QO from them? I wouldn't offer one. And letting go of his Bird rights whenever room is needed (if that should happen) is not a big deal.

Your list makes sense, though not sure I'd be all that interested in some of them. We're looking for an upgrade and some seem to me to be warm bodies who are big, but perhaps not playable in big games. As much as I'm ready to move on from Powell, change just for the sake of change is even less appealing imo.

Mavs MLE should be close to 6.2M. I hope you are right in thinking it will be able to land someone desirable who can be a useful regular. I hope Cuban will be incredibly willing to spend that MLE, and the TPE too, assuming they find a player who can be a regular, rather than cry poverty (or feign inability to have a use for either). I have long been interested in Holmes using the TPE and think a Powell for Holmes deal is one that has promise (including ways to include others as needed on either side, ways to keep from being even more buried in tax by moving the TPE to the future in such a deal, so to speak, and more).

It would be pretty crazy to trade for a 23 year old former #2 pick and then let him walk for nothing, especially while you are rebuilding.

Young players tend to get better. I know, I know crazy old youth-loving Mavs2021, who also didn´t want to give grandpa Lowry 90M last summer and trade Brunson in the process. 12 months later, you´d be slapped senseless, if you proposed a Brunson for Lowry trade straight up.

12 months ago Jalen Smith was the biggest draft bust, dumped by the Suns. Now he´s a 21 year old averaging 13/8, while shooting 53/37/77. It´s likely there is further improvement to come.

Thomas Bryant produced very similar numbers before tearing his ACL. Played off his rust. Full summer to work out. Now is the moment to catch him. With Washington having Porzingis and Gafford, it´s highly unlikely he´ll stay there. Id be shocked, if somebody offered him more than the $6.2M.

I can see it with Hartenstein, cause Ballmer simply does not give a f*** and with Smith, cause he´s only 21 and the promise he has shown in Indiana could tempt a team like the Spurs to outbid everybody.

(06-04-2022, 10:10 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]It would be pretty crazy to trade for a 23 year old former #2 pick and then let him walk for nothing, especially while you are rebuilding. .

It's hard to say. High draft picks don't necessarily work out. Some never had enough skill and just "projected" to become far more than they could be, and some don't have the work ethic to do what it takes to become good or great. It happens.

The fact Bagley was drafted #2 no longer drives his desirability. It now comes down to whether he can play well (or is thought to be on the road to doing that). DET gave very little to get him for what amounted to a half-year test drive before he becomes a FA.

Whether DET offers him a contract, or prefers cap room instead, will be a good test of what he looks like up close. SAC had a good long look and gave up on him, but maybe DET will be different and decide he's worth more of a try. We will find out soon.

(06-04-2022, 09:39 PM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]Turner does a pretty good job on that chart while also being cheaper and better offensively than Gobert.

Turner 3 years younger too

(06-04-2022, 10:48 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]It's hard to say. High draft picks don't necessarily work out. Some never had enough skill and just "projected" to become far more than they could be, and some don't have the work ethic to do what it takes to become good or great. It happens.

The fact Bagley was drafted #2 no longer drives his desirability. It now comes down to whether he can play well (or is thought to be on the road to doing that). DET gave very little to get him for what amounted to a half-year test drive before he becomes a FA.

Whether DET offers him a contract, or prefers cap room instead, will be a good test of what he looks like up close. SAC had a good long look and gave up on him, but maybe DET will be different and decide he's worth more of a try. We will find out soon.

Well they can re-sign him + Ayton, just needs to be at around a realistic 38/3 with a player option or something, accounting for as you say his reduced performance. His caphold is just too big.

It´s not even that he has not performed. He hasn´t played enough to even judge him properly: 166 games,  37% coming in his rookie season alone. Luka has missed games and he´s at 264 regular season games.

It´s the same argument I have made for Julius Randle back in the day and now make for Thomas Bryant. They started out very promising. Then they tear an ACL. They need a little time to recover from such a serious injury. Now you are in year four, five or even entering year six as is the case for Thomas Bryant, but he has only played 170 career games. In playing time that´s entering your 3rd year. Still only turning 25 in July, despite entering his 6th year.

Would you give a young UFA center a 12/2 contract, if he finished his 2nd season with 13/7, shooting 60/40/70. I know his defense is highly suspect.

Of course you still do, cause there is absolutely no downside to this, but the potential upside is gigantic. I get the injury risk and it´s obviously valid, but also largely irrelevant at such a contract size, unlike throwing the full five year $160M at the Latvian duct tape without any insurance clauses.