Would you do
Harrell
Turner
Hachimura
KCP
for
Porzingis
THJ
Kleber
+ 1st round pick.
Doncic/ Dragic (buyout) or Kemba (TPE)
Brunson/KCP
DFS/Bullock
Powell/Hachimura
Turner/Harrell
(02-07-2022, 06:36 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Would you do
Harrell
Turner
Hachimura
KCP
for
Porzingis
THJ
Kleber
+ 1st round pick.
Doncic/ Dragic (buyout) or Kemba (TPE)
Brunson/KCP
DFS/Bullock
Powell/Hachimura
Turner/Harrell
Is anyone even going to take THJ with his broken foot? I don’t think anyone wanted him when he was healthy.
I am a hard no on Harrell dude just does not seem like a good fit with our team.
(02-07-2022, 10:59 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]I am a hard no on Harrell dude just does not seem like a good fit with our team.
He's a big that can rebound so he definitely wouldn't fit in with our other bigs.
(02-07-2022, 11:01 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]He's a big that can rebound so he definitely wouldn't fit in with our other bigs.
Talent wise he is just what we need but we seem to have a good locker room culture and Harrell does not have the best reputation as being a good locker room guy.
Team Chemistry > Solid Big any day
My thing is the Mavs are giving up the best player in the deal, along with a first round pick, for an assortment of mid tier role players at various positions with no prized asset to restock the pantry so to speak.
I don't really see how the 3-team trade works between IND and WAS, if "Turner" is supposed to be Myles Turner.
KP to WAS? All of WAS role players to Mavs? What does IND get in this? Kleber and a 1st?
So I'd say no to this deal. If there was a way to get a healthy Turner for just Kleber and a pick then I'd be all for it.
(02-07-2022, 11:25 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]Talent wise he is just what we need but we seem to have a good locker room culture and Harrell does not have the best reputation as being a good locker room guy.
Team Chemistry > Solid Big any day
Mostly a joke since our big men are allergic to rebounding.
(02-06-2022, 10:25 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree, a team like Detroit or a team like Orlando would love to have him. KP can produce if given the opportunity, the problem is his requirements to produce diminishes our offensive capability given we have a ball wizard in Luka. Luka needs screen setters and scorers who can take advantage of his playmaking.
Throwing the ball into a big while Luka stands and watches is not us at our best in my opinion.
There are teams out that that can use KP and would like the idea of trading for a 7 footer that average 20 and 9 and a few blocks a game. That is a building block.
Let me also add a team like Charlotte who may want him simply because he fits with their scheme and their need for taller players. You could play KP next to Plumlee and not lose a beat.
Disagree. Teams would be licking their chops to put both in P&R's.
(02-08-2022, 12:48 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]My thing is the Mavs are giving up the best player in the deal, along with a first round pick, for an assortment of mid tier role players at various positions with no prized asset to restock the pantry so to speak.
I don't really see how the 3-team trade works between IND and WAS, if "Turner" is supposed to be Myles Turner.
KP to WAS? All of WAS role players to Mavs? What does IND get in this? Kleber and a 1st?
So I'd say no to this deal. If there was a way to get a healthy Turner for just Kleber and a pick then I'd be all for it.
Deal would be
THJ + Kleber + 1st to Indiana
Porzingis to Washington
Harrell + KCP + Hachimura + Turner to Dallas
I think Hachimura is such a buy low candidate. Always balling for Japan in international competitions. Last year at the Olympics he put up 22/7 against Spain, Slovenia and Argentina, when that kind of FIBA ball should theoretically hurt his game (similar to Giannis).
Harrell is the exact type of rebounding, rim-running bench player that you can count on for a steady 14-15 PPG production. I´d have included Gafford instead of Harrell, who is the guy I really want, but he has some weird no-trade clause until April.
If Washington is desperately chasing Sabonis, they must be open to Porzinigis as a fallback option to entice Beal.
Overall we become a better balanced team imho with a better cap structure going forward.
No interest in Harrell. Teams that think they want him, discover they don't once they get him. Huge red flag.
(02-08-2022, 04:12 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]No interest in Harrell. Teams that think they want him, discover they don't once they get him. Huge red flag.
He is expiring though and the proposed deal overall does give Mavs much needed flexibility. I was thinking lately - does KP raise the ceiling of the team? One could say that Mavs don't look any different when he is out. They are 19-15 with him playing and 12-8 with him not playing. Mavs definitely need him for regular season as no one can be really competitive with 30 % of his cap not used. So if my assumption is correct, wouldn't it make sense to break his contract into more moveable pieces? I don't really like both Maxi and FRP included in the deal, though.
Washington does seem like a possible partner. Their roster is filled with average players and they just don't have minutes for all of them. They also have horrible contracts of their own. How about:
Was: KP, Burke, Brown, Brown
Dal: Bertans, KCP, Hachimura, Bryant
Mavs dump overpaid players (M. Brown exception) that are signed for at least anothers season. Bertans is one of worst contracts in the league but it is half the size of KP contract and he does have some on court value as bench shooter. KCP would be used as needed rotation guard with THJ injured. He will be expiring contract Mavs would need next season. Hachimura looks like not needed in Washington but is cost controlled for another season and Mavs could see if he is a long term piece. Fills the position of need and can also be useful young prospect to deal in the summer. Bryant is expiring and temporary needed as a back-up center to fill the void after KP departure. Mavs have half of the season to decide if they want to keep him.
(02-08-2022, 04:55 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]He is expiring though and the proposed deal overall does give Mavs much needed flexibility. I was thinking lately - does KP raise the ceiling of the team? One could say that Mavs don't look any different when he is out. They are 19-15 with him playing and 12-8 with him not playing. Mavs definitely need him for regular season as no one can be really competitive with 30 % of his cap not used. So if my assumption is correct, wouldn't it make sense to break his contract into more moveable pieces? I don't really like both Maxi and FRP included in the deal, though.
Washington does seem like a possible partner. Their roster is filled with average players and they just don't have minutes for all of them. They also have horrible contracts of their own. How about:
Was: KP, Burke, Brown, Brown
Dal: Bertans, KCP, Hachimura, Bryant
Mavs dump overpaid players (M. Brown exception) that are signed for at least anothers season. Bertans is one of worst contracts in the league but it is half the size of KP contract and he does have some on court value as bench shooter. KCP would be used as needed rotation guard with THJ injured. He will be expiring contract Mavs would need next season. Hachimura looks like not needed in Washington but is cost controlled for another season and Mavs could see if he is a long term piece. Fills the position of need and can also be useful young prospect to deal in the summer. Bryant is expiring and temporary needed as a back-up center to fill the void after KP departure. Mavs have half of the season to decide if they want to keep him.
Yeah that´s pretty much where I am, too. Exactly my thoughts and reasons for doing such a deal. Theoretically with KCP´s low guarantee you could even generate some capspace this summer.
Even if you ignore the injury risk, I´m not convinced Porzingis offers enough on-court value for his contract. The team defense is so much more active without Porzingis and the only reason we are not even better statistically is that Powell is a poor rebounder.
I'm excited to learn a little bit about Nico and how he operates with info through the media. Are the leaks going to increase about the Mavs coveting DFS and JB to only have a deal come out of nowhere? Or does the media have a clear picture of Nico's real intentions?
#theNicotiator
(02-08-2022, 08:02 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I'm excited to learn a little bit about Nico and how he operates with info through the media. Are the leaks going to increase about the Mavs coveting DFS and JB to only have a deal come out of nowhere? Or does the media have a clear picture of Nico's real intentions?
#theNicotiator
Same, but i worry most everything we’re getting is the Cuban point of view.
(02-08-2022, 04:55 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]He is expiring though and the proposed deal overall does give Mavs much needed flexibility. I was thinking lately - does KP raise the ceiling of the team? One could say that Mavs don't look any different when he is out. They are 19-15 with him playing and 12-8 with him not playing. Mavs definitely need him for regular season as no one can be really competitive with 30 % of his cap not used. So if my assumption is correct, wouldn't it make sense to break his contract into more moveable pieces? I don't really like both Maxi and FRP included in the deal, though.
Washington does seem like a possible partner. Their roster is filled with average players and they just don't have minutes for all of them. They also have horrible contracts of their own. How about:
Was: KP, Burke, Brown, Brown
Dal: Bertans, KCP, Hachimura, Bryant
Mavs dump overpaid players (M. Brown exception) that are signed for at least anothers season. Bertans is one of worst contracts in the league but it is half the size of KP contract and he does have some on court value as bench shooter. KCP would be used as needed rotation guard with THJ injured. He will be expiring contract Mavs would need next season. Hachimura looks like not needed in Washington but is cost controlled for another season and Mavs could see if he is a long term piece. Fills the position of need and can also be useful young prospect to deal in the summer. Bryant is expiring and temporary needed as a back-up center to fill the void after KP departure. Mavs have half of the season to decide if they want to keep him.
A friend of mine likes to say "if you have to eat a turd, don't nibble". If all this trash is where KP's value is these days, then this really is an exercise in turd eating.
I'm more of an Avdija guy than a Rui guy. In fact, he's the only reason I even answer the call from Washington.
I started to write a longer post with detailed thoughts on KCP, Kuzma, Bryant, Harrell, Dinwiddie and Bertans, but the truth is I don't want any of them. I guess the expiring bad players are better than long term bad players.
There is a chance this is essentially KP for Avdija and Bertans in a few months (plus a free look at Bryant). Yes, there is a substantial savings over KP/Brown...probably enough to hang onto Brunson and DFS without paying the LT. But, you have to be pretty down on KP to do this and you've not really done anything that adds to your ability to become a contender except move on from a potential impediment from a fit and health standpoint. I'd need to add a third team and send off the expiring deals there to get back something of value in its place.
(02-08-2022, 08:34 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I'm more of an Avdija guy than a Rui guy. In fact, he's the only reason I even answer the call from Washington.
AMEN. Avdija long term potential is REALLY intriguing to me. I think he can be a high level starter on a contender.
(02-08-2022, 08:34 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I'm more of an Avdija guy than a Rui guy. In fact, he's the only reason I even answer the call from Washington.
Agreed. Avdija is really intriguing to me. While I'm ready to move on from KP, I wouldn't want to just give him away for cap savings.
I saw a tweet that described Porzingis time since he's arrived at the Mavs that went like this:
KP gets healthy and is playing like a sub all-star, but fans don't want to trade him because he's too important (trade value highest here)
KP gets injured and is out X amount of games rehabbing the injury and fans start to sour on him.
KP comes back not fully 100% and looks like a shell of what he was. Fans want to trade him the most here. (trade value lowest here)
KP is still our 2nd most important player when healthy and vibing. He should be moved if the Mavs can actually get an asset, and not sold low. Avdija is an asset, but the smorgasbord of returning role players probably makes the Mavs much much worse. I'd probably be more interested if the deal was more like:
KP for Avdija+Kuzma+KCP+1st. For sure a rich deal for the Wizards, but if they are desperate for a star to convince Beal to stay then the Mavs set the price, not the Wizards.
I will say though the Mavs reported continued interest in Turner might give us a view in how they see KP. I don't see both of those guys playing together. Perhaps Nico is secretly shopping KP.
I still like your proposed 3-team trade with SAC and ATL where the Mavs send KP to SAC, Barnes to ATL, and Collins+Holmes to DAL.