(04-29-2022, 02:17 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]The title of this thread "DAL would have "significant interest" in Gobert"
After watching this series, is there anyone that still thinks the Mavs should give up significant or even above average assets to obtain Gobert?!
Still 4 years - 170M remaining on that contract
Age 30: 38M
Age 31: 41M
Age 32: 44M
Age 33: 46.6M
I was actually having the exact same thought when looking at the discussion titles.
(04-29-2022, 01:58 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]In a league where your payroll is limited, and choices have to be made, that's a real life concern.
You would explore a trade for Gobert who si paid 40 mil per season but show so much concern over 25 mil Collins is paid (while being only 24 years old)?
(04-29-2022, 02:17 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]Gobert
As I have stated many times, I think he is way overpaid. Sure he is better than Powell so if Utah would be giving him just as a salary dump for something like Powell and THJ, I would pull the trigger. But I don't think Utah would be considering something like that or they would get better offers elsewhere.
(04-29-2022, 02:31 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]As I have stated many times, I think he is way overpaid. Sure he is better than Powell so if Utah would be giving him just as a salary dump for something like Powell and THJ, I would pull the trigger. But I don't think Utah would be considering something like that or they would get better offers elsewhere.
The whole thought of adding Gobert gives me KP vibes. I legitimately prefer Powell and THJ over Gobert. Sure he makes things difficult at the rim but he has bricks for hands, can't dribble or defend the perimeter. He's not worth half of what he gets paid, and I'm being generous. Not to mention nobody likes him. Hard pass for me...
(04-29-2022, 02:17 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]The title of this thread "DAL would have "significant interest" in Gobert"
After watching this series, is there anyone that still thinks the Mavs should give up significant or even above average assets to obtain Gobert?!
Still 4 years - 170M remaining on that contract
Age 30: 38M
Age 31: 41M
Age 32: 44M
Age 33: 46.6M
12 PPG in 33 MPG with a minus-23
Give me one year of McGee at $5M any day of the week. The traditional center position should be filled using moneyball unless you are talking about transcendence (Jokic, Embiid). Gobert's offense doesn't put him close to earning what he is being paid. As great as his defense is, it can be exploited. Mavs need to get good at looking for fallen angels like Clarkson. I think we have the coaching staff in place to build those types of players up.
Wasn’t Javale McGee with the Mavs & if I recall. He never got much playing time here? I remember RC would play ZaZa more. Obviously they have a different coach now, but it’s incredible how he went from not playing much here, to winning back to back titles with Warriors, 1 with LA.
(04-29-2022, 03:05 PM)Tunesquad23 Wrote: [ -> ]Wasn’t Javale McGee with the Mavs & if I recall. He never got much playing time here? I remember RC would play ZaZa more. Obviously they have a different coach now, but it’s incredible how he went from not playing much here, to winning back to back titles with Warriors, 1 with LA.
Yessir.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...melog/2016
The danger you have is the player falling off a cliff. I was campaigning for D12 for the last few years which was a great investment until this past season. The good news with that type of miss is that the contract is small and length is short so it doesn't make correcting the mistake as complicated as say KP or correcting from Gobert's contract.
(04-29-2022, 02:28 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]You would explore a trade for Gobert who si paid 40 mil per season but show so much concern over 25 mil Collins is paid (while being only 24 years old)?
Yes, Gobert "at the price I like" interests me despite his contract (but not as a must-have type of pursuit )...and the price I have mentioned would be something like THJ-Powell, thinking that the list of suitors might be short and the desire to move him large. At that price, I take the salary risk and take the plunge - with Gobert's plus track record making me risk the salary.
I don't like that same idea re Collins, because both 1 his track record is not at that level at all, and 2 the acquisition price on Collins would be way higher, stripping talent that you would have a hard time replacing as an over-tax team. If you think the Mavs might can get Collins for THJ-Powell and want to explore something at that level, sure, sign me up.
"if Ainge wants to go big, there is really only one way to do it. He’d have to trade Gobert."
To have a little feeling about what some think Gobert value might be, 5 potential destinations:
1. Charlotte for Hayward, PJ Washington, #13, #15 and additional 2 unprotected FRP
2. Atlanta: Capella, Collins, #16 and Jalen Johnson for Gobert and Gay
3. Toronto: not likely, interesting one Siakam straight up
4. New York: unlikely, but perhaps Fournier, Reddish, Noel, #11 and 2 2023 FRP (own and Dallas)
5. Memphis: Jackson and Gobert would be lethal. Can structure a gazillion possible packages
Gobert is an All-Star, the best defensive player of his era and a screen-setting, rim-running gravity device. He’s also an odd player to build around because he plays 95 percent of the game without the ball. As I outlined at the top, it’s easy to see where the breadcrumbs lead on Gobert trade possibilities, but given his rare skill set, it may ultimately come down to a question that is completely out of Utah’s hands: Are other teams willing to give up a JRue or George type of package to get Gobert.
Hollinger: Is this au revoir? Why trading Rudy Gobert may be the Jazz’s only option, and what deals could work - The Athletic
I'm not even remotely interested in Gobert if those theoretical 'offers by other teams' would actually be out there, and something to compete against. Hard pass.
But I'm very skeptical about whether Utah will get offers like that, because of the massive salary combined with the recency of what Dallas did to him and his team (without Luka for half the games).
I am thinking there's a possibility that, given his contract, the market UT will have could turn out to be a lot like KP's did.
Rule number one applies with Ainge in Utah.
(04-29-2022, 04:05 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I am thinking there's a possibility that, given his contract, the market UT will have could turn out to be a lot like KP's did.
Which brings the question - why making a trade under those circumstances at all? Its not like Gobert is forever injured.
I do agree the offers look very rich, but I would also assume Utah would get plenty of way better offers than just THJ and Powell to consider pulling the trigger. It seems Charlotte would be more than happy to put Hayward on the table, which is likely more appealing than THJ and Powell on their own.
(04-29-2022, 01:58 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]It's not a reasonable or rational standard to think that 'anything better than Maxi' (who is paid less than MLE) is worth max money (which Collins is getting). If you're paying max (or giving value to get such a player), you need to be getting MAX-worthy production.
In a league where your payroll is limited, and choices have to be made, that's a real life concern.
If Maxi gives you most of the value at a fraction of the price, it may be wiser not to allocate massive parts of your payroll to Collins. Collins, for all his various skills we see at times, is well short of max level in his regular season production, and his playoff numbers this year were fairly mediocre, and last year as well. If we had him, we'd be wondering how we can upgrade him to someone who is a difference maker, and bemoaning the contract that is making that difficult.
I don't think Collins is making max money, right? He is making 23. He could have gotten roughly KP contract.
Maxi does not give you most of the value of Collins at fraction of price. They are not in the same ballpark offensively and Maxi can't give you big minutes while Collins has been averaging over 30 since his second season.
I think he took a serious hit when Capela came on the team. In his third year he was 22 and 10 with crazy high efficiency both at the rim and from 3. That would do wonders on this team.
He is roughly in the same ballpark as Brunson and DFS and younger than both. A core of Luka/Brunson/Collins/DFS is young and contender worthy. I don't see us looking to upgrade and bemoaning his contract.
(04-29-2022, 04:08 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Rule number one applies with Ainge in Utah.
LOL true, but a corollary to rule #1 evolved in Boston, which was that they were persistently perceived to be active in trade talks but very little seemed to happen. So now that Ainge is in Utah, maybe discussing the idea of Gobert (or Mitchell) being traded will also prove pointless.
(04-29-2022, 04:22 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I do agree the offers look very rich, but I would also assume Utah would get plenty of way better offers than just THJ and Powell to consider pulling the trigger. It seems Charlotte would be more than happy to put Hayward on the table, which is likely more appealing than THJ and Powell on their own.
Yes, they might have better offers. Or might not. And may or may not want to move on.
I don't think Hayward would have more value to them, but perhaps elsewhere. (He still has 2 more years over 30M each, and he has injury issues that keep happening that take 1/3 or more of his season. More than that, he doesn't help them from the KP-like cap solution approach, where you turn a big clog on your cap into 2 medium-sized so-so deals, either of which might be movable in a separate deal, rather than 1 big one.)
(04-29-2022, 04:26 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]In his third year [Collins] was 22 and 10 with crazy high efficiency both at the rim and from 3. That would do wonders on this team.
1 Desirable though they be, I am leery if we would get that sort of production from him.
2 Also, ADDING him to the existing talent base is a much different proposition than deleting a ton from what's here in order to get him. For what he offers, I'm figuring the trade to get him would likely exact too high a cost in assets to interest me.
(04-29-2022, 05:29 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]1 Desirable though they be, I am leery if we would get that sort of production from him.
2 Also, ADDING him to the existing talent base is a much different proposition than deleting a ton from what's here in order to get him. For what he offers, I'm figuring the trade to get him would likely exact too high a cost in assets to interest me.
I actually think there is a good chance of him getting those numbers again with nobody clogging up the lane and Luka to get him the ball.
As to your second point, that might be the case. I would be curious what the deal might need to be. I'm sure THJ and the pick are not enough.
(04-29-2022, 04:08 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Rule number one applies with Ainge in Utah.
Don't trade with Ainge still lives on - outstanding...
This doesn't need to be mixed with the roster discussion, but I don't know where else to put it.
Watching G 6 and the very short minutes for Powell, I was left wondering repeatedly if he was dealing with some sort of injury or sickness issue. From his play, his movement/energy (or lack of), the rotations, and the post-game comments, I think the Mavs may have been playing with a shortened roster, and Kidd utilizing some Emergency Plan types of things to try to overcome them.
(04-29-2022, 06:04 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Watching G 6 and the very short minutes for Powell, I was left wondering repeatedly if he was dealing with some sort of injury or sickness issue. From his play, his movement/energy (or lack of), the rotations, and the post-game comments, I think the Mavs may have been playing with a shortened roster, and Kidd utilizing some Emergency Plan types of things to try to overcome them.
Bullock was sick. Maybe other players weren't well. I thought Kleber looked slow too. It could just be that this team was on a near-empty tank.
They need to find some other contributors off the bench for this next series. Six players won't cut it.