MavsBoard

Wonder if Houston would accept a DP plus 22 pick for Wood. Add in Brown if needed for salary matching.

(05-09-2022, 11:08 AM)MaxiThreeba Wrote: [ -> ]My problem with the roster is the salary allocation.  They obviously need another playable big as well.

The Mavs have guys that fit well in the right role but are overpaid for what that role is; THJ, Dinwiddie, Bertans, Powell

It's a product of poor talent acquisition through the draft.  In an ideal world, a couple of those guys are on rookie deals and then then whole roster situation looks totally different.

I would argue that Din is getting paid about right.  A 6th man who can run the second unit, get 15 a game, play with both Luka and Brunson, and not that bad on defense.  

THJ is probably getting overpaid for his role here due to lack of fit.  But that contract is descending and there are a lot of teams he would make sense on.  He makes the most sense to turn into a big as well as some salary reduction.

Bertans is the cost of the KP failure.  It is what it is.

Powell is expiring next year.  In fact Powell, Brown, Burke and Boban are all expiring next year.  The salary allocation will look a lot better when those folks are gone/on vet min.

That's why I think it makes sense to make small moves this coming offseason (get a big).  Right after the Nicks make our 23 pick, we will have access to all of our picks and most of the bad contracts will be gone.  That's the time to go for a Jrue Holiday if we need to.

(05-09-2022, 11:48 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Fantastic question.

I could 100% seeing the Mavs making the decision ATL did last year: "We are so young that the most progress we will make will be by internal growth and development."

I personally think the Mavs need to make some significant moves still. I think bringing back the band would be a mistake.

I'm guessing this FO knows they need to add another big.  Do you think they need to do more than sign Brunson and get a big this offseason?

(05-09-2022, 12:29 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I'm guessing this FO knows they need to add another big.  Do you think they need to do more than sign Brunson and get a big this offseason?

I think they need to do more than "add" a big....meaning I think their move for a big should shake up the roster quite a bit in the process. My two targets would be JC and Gobert, in that order. You aren't going to get either without a roster shakeup in the process. 

However, I am fine with the Mavs not doing much IF the right move isn't available. They do NOT need to do something just to do something. But again, I would go REALLY HARD after JC. I truly think he would thrive as the five in Kidd's system and next to Luka.

(05-09-2022, 12:32 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I think they need to do more than "add" a big....meaning I think their move for a big should shake up the roster quite a bit in the process. My two targets would be JC and Gobert, in that order. You aren't going to get either without a roster shakeup in the process. 

However, I am fine with the Mavs not doing much IF the right move isn't available. They do NOT need to do something just to do something. But again, I would go REALLY HARD after JC. I truly think he would thrive as the five in Kidd's system and next to Luka.

Its hard to see a path to JC.  Would you trade DFS+Maxi for him?  I don't think I pull that trigger and I don't know if that is enough to get him anyways.

(05-09-2022, 12:26 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I would argue that Din is getting paid about right.  A 6th man who can run the second unit, get 15 a game, play with both Luka and Brunson, and not that bad on defense.  

THJ is probably getting overpaid for his role here due to lack of fit.  But that contract is descending and there are a lot of teams he would make sense on.  He makes the most sense to turn into a big as well as some salary reduction.

Bertans is the cost of the KP failure.  It is what it is.

Powell is expiring next year.  In fact Powell, Brown, Burke and Boban are all expiring next year.  The salary allocation will look a lot better when those folks are gone/on vet min.

That's why I think it makes sense to make small moves this coming offseason (get a big).  Right after the Nicks make our 23 pick, we will have access to all of our picks and most of the bad contracts will be gone.  That's the time to go for a Jrue Holiday if we need to.

It's not the individual inflated bench salaries, it's the aggregate.

Next year, the Mavs will be spending $66,182,398 on 4 guys that SHOULD be coming off the bench in Powell, THJ, Dinwiddie and Bertans.  In 2023-24 that number becomes $55,254,871 on 3 guys that SHOULD be coming off the bench in THJ, Dinwiddie and Bertans.

If the Mavs can turn one of those guys into a starter (likely at the center spot), the allocation looks a lot different.  

Dinwiddie and Bertans likely arent going anywhere because Dinwiddie's role is sorely needed and Bertans contract doesn't seem movable without a big asset payout from the Mavs; which doesn't feel necessary.

THJ and Powell are the 2 to watch IMO.  The S&T limitations once JB's contract pushes Mavs well into LT make it all the more difficult.  A lesser but real issue is Brown, Burke and Boban taking up roster spots. 

A THJ/Powell, Brown/Burke/Boban, Pick/Green 3 for 1 trade might be the ideal scenario.  Who that target is and how far into the LT Cuban is willing to go (TP Exception signing?) are the real unknowns.

(05-09-2022, 12:36 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Its hard to see a path to JC.  Would you trade DFS+Maxi for him?  I don't think I pull that trigger and I don't know if that is enough to get him anyways.

I would. I would try to avoid trading DFS to get him, but I personally pull that trigger. I think Kidd/Nico are going to have success finding 3&D players, so I think DFS is more easily replaceable than someone like JC.

(05-09-2022, 12:44 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I would. I would try to avoid trading DFS to get him, but I personally pull that trigger. I think Kidd/Nico are going to have success finding 3&D players, so I think DFS is more easily replaceable than someone like JC.

Luka did say he hopes he gets to play with him his whole career.  Don't want your franchise player to have a COW because you deal one of his dudes.

(05-09-2022, 12:38 PM)MaxiThreeba Wrote: [ -> ]It's not the individual inflated bench salaries, it's the aggregate.

Next year, the Mavs will be spending $66,182,398 on 4 guys that SHOULD be coming off the bench in Powell, THJ, Dinwiddie and Bertans.  In 2023-24 that number becomes $55,254,871 on 3 guys that SHOULD be coming off the bench in THJ, Dinwiddie and Bertans.

If the Mavs can turn one of those guys into a starter (likely at the center spot), the allocation looks a lot different.  

Dinwiddie and Bertans likely arent going anywhere because Dinwiddie's role is sorely needed and Bertans contract doesn't seem movable without a big asset payout from the Mavs; which doesn't feel necessary.

THJ and Powell are the 2 to watch IMO.  The S&T limitations once JB's contract pushes Mavs well into LT make it all the more difficult.  A lesser but real issue is Brown, Burke and Boban taking up roster spots. 

A THJ/Powell, Brown/Burke/Boban, Pick/Green 3 for 1 trade might be the ideal scenario.  Who that target is and how far into the LT Cuban is willing to go (TP Exception signing?) are the real unknowns.

Why are we worried about powell/brown/burke/boban?  They are a one year problem.  Any one of them can be waived next year at no future cost if we need the roster spot.

If we are really concerned with salary construction then turn THJ into a starting center (and add the pick if you have to) and stretch waive Bertans.  After next year we will have Din and a little over 5 mil for Bertans hitting the books.  Almost clean slate in one season.

I think you should always be looking for upgrades unless you got an actual juggernaut like the Warriors after they added KD. This team isn't as good as those early Dirk-led Mavs teams that were perennial 55-60+ win contenders competing against the Spurs/Suns every year for supremacy of the west. Could just be a quality big man away from it though.

Instead of trying to trade Brunson, what about trading Dinwiddie? Knicks looking for a PG really bad and they can't have Brunson, but how about a Dinwiddie for Randle based deal? Dinwiddie + Powell + 26th pick for Randle + our 2023 pick back maybe? They want to clear his contract from the books and move on with Obi at PF so give them a PG and an expiring.

Randle takes the 3rd playmaker spot, so you always have 2 of Luka/JB/Randle on the floor. Make him Luka's new PNR buddy. Every screen that Powell is doing now becomes a Randle screen and instead of Powell doing those short rolls, it's now Randle who is way more versatile and a complete bball player which is what everyone whines about with this squad. Also proven elite rebounder and bully ball toughness. I didn't think he worked defensively as a small ball 5 due to rim protection but I think he works just fine in Kidd's system.

Luka/JB/Bullock/DFS/Randle lineup can finish the game. Frees up more minutes for Frank/Josh too with Dinwiddie gone. With JB on the bench you can do Luka/Bullock/DFS/Randle and Frank/Josh for 3 great wing defenders flanking Luka.

Mavs need to get better, no matter where they end this season. But that doesn't mean a massive change. Just add some useful 2-way talent. Assuming Brunson stays (and no good reason to think he won't), I think the target this summer should be 1-2 adds of the Bullock ilk Not necessarily a 3-and-D wing, but MLE-ish salary guys with some 2-way talent.

You might can get 1 with the TE for a bit more than MLE, and a 2nd for the 6M MLE. In theory, Green or Franky or maybe even Brown or the pick could become one of those, but add at least one from outside too.

What this team needs is 2-way players, and they do have some already, which is making a difference. Each addition of someone like that has a ripple effect to make everyone else better.

In theory, chasing another star player seems like a big step that's needed. But the reality is that
1 "Luka and friends" has a very high ceiling, as long as there are enough friends to fill the various needs from game to game, and
2 the options being discussed are usually more of a big salary than a player who can truly be a 1B. In fact, there's valid reason to think that JB might have the makeup (both talent and mindset) to be that 2nd guy, as he finds answers and hits big shots (and has a track record of being a winner and leader), and perhaps at a price that makes way more sense than so many of these proposed targets.

I think they can live with THJ, Bertans, Dinwiddie (while wishing they were paid a few mill less), with the hope that another year under Kidd might make them even more valuable, so not in a hurry to move them (but open to offers that make sense).

(05-09-2022, 12:53 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: [ -> ]I think you should always be looking for upgrades unless you got an actual juggernaut like the Warriors after they added KD. This team isn't as good as those early Dirk-led Mavs teams that were perennial 55-60+ win contenders competing against the Spurs/Suns every year for supremacy of the west. Could just be a quality big man away from it though.

Instead of trying to trade Brunson, what about trading Dinwiddie? Knicks looking for a PG really bad and they can't have Brunson, but how about a Dinwiddie for Randle based deal? Dinwiddie + Powell + 26th pick for Randle + our 2023 pick back maybe? They want to clear his contract from the books and move on with Obi at PF so give them a PG and an expiring.

Randle takes the 3rd playmaker spot, so you always have 2 of Luka/JB/Randle on the floor. Make him Luka's new PNR buddy. Every screen that Powell is doing now becomes a Randle screen and instead of Powell doing those short rolls, it's now Randle who is way more versatile and a complete bball player which is what everyone whines about with this squad. Also proven elite rebounder and bully ball toughness. I didn't think he worked defensively as a small ball 5 due to rim protection but I think he works just fine in Kidd's system.

Luka/JB/Bullock/DFS/Randle lineup can finish the game. Frees up more minutes for Frank/Josh too with Dinwiddie gone. With JB on the bench you can do Luka/Bullock/DFS/Randle and Frank/Josh for 3 great wing defenders flanking Luka.

The problem is Randle is not really a P&R player.  He is more of an iso kick out.  Its hard to see the fit with Luka as he would be constantly clogging the lane.

I also think we need to be careful about thinking we can take any power forward and make him a center in Kidds system.  In the playoffs that needs to be a really good defender (like Maxi).  Randle is worse than Powell and I think our defense would struggle Randle as single big.

Honestly due to fit I think I would rather have Dinwiddie.

(05-09-2022, 12:44 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I would. I would try to avoid trading DFS to get him, but I personally pull that trigger. I think Kidd/Nico are going to have success finding 3&D players, so I think DFS is more easily replaceable than someone like JC.

I can understand why you would pull that trigger, but I actually think it makes us a worse team.

For one, I'm skeptical we can just magically get 3&D players with our limited assets

And two, Dorian is more than a simple 3&D player.  His on court play and chemistry with team would be very hard to replace.

Also, Collins misses a lot of games.  After dealing with KP, I'm not sure how excited I am to spend all our assets on another player that gets injured a lot.

(05-09-2022, 11:59 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]Wouldn't you be adding a proven playoff performer in THJ?

(05-09-2022, 12:53 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: [ -> ]I think you should always be looking for upgrades unless you got an actual juggernaut like the Warriors after they added KD. This team isn't as good as those early Dirk-led Mavs teams that were perennial 55-60+ win contenders competing against the Spurs/Suns every year for supremacy of the west. Could just be a quality big man away from it though.

Instead of trying to trade Brunson, what about trading Dinwiddie? Knicks looking for a PG really bad and they can't have Brunson, but how about a Dinwiddie for Randle based deal? Dinwiddie + Powell + 26th pick for Randle + our 2023 pick back maybe? They want to clear his contract from the books and move on with Obi at PF so give them a PG and an expiring.

Randle takes the 3rd playmaker spot, so you always have 2 of Luka/JB/Randle on the floor. Make him Luka's new PNR buddy. Every screen that Powell is doing now becomes a Randle screen and instead of Powell doing those short rolls, it's now Randle who is way more versatile and a complete bball player which is what everyone whines about with this squad. Also proven elite rebounder and bully ball toughness. I didn't think he worked defensively as a small ball 5 due to rim protection but I think he works just fine in Kidd's system.

Luka/JB/Bullock/DFS/Randle lineup can finish the game. Frees up more minutes for Frank/Josh too with Dinwiddie gone. With JB on the bench you can do Luka/Bullock/DFS/Randle and Frank/Josh for 3 great wing defenders flanking Luka.

Which Randall are you trading for? 20-21 Randall pre-contract that was MIP candidate or 21-22 Randall that didn't seem to do much all year.

(05-09-2022, 01:01 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is Randle is not really a P&R player.  He is more of an iso kick out.  Its hard to see the fit with Luka as he would be constantly clogging the lane.

I also think we need to be careful about thinking we can take any power forward and make him a center in Kidds system.  In the playoffs that needs to be a really good defender (like Maxi).  Randle is worse than Powell and I think our defense would struggle Randle as single big.

Honestly due to fit I think I would rather have Dinwiddie.

He's been the roll man a decent amount. He's just not a crazy dunker but those dunks don't really happen when the games matter most. More about projecting how his fit would be in this system playing with Luka cause I don't think he's ever been in a situation like this. I'd say he's mostly iso kick out due to the teams he's been on recently.

Maxi to me is a great help defender but just an alright 1 on 1 defender. Powell might have slightly better lateral agility but I think you're really underrating Randle's perimeter defense. It's solid. Randle is definitely way stronger with similar length to Powell. I don't see the defense as a massive fall off. He was a major contributor to the Knicks #1 defense just a year ago. (with Bullock) 106.8 DefRtg. Playing PF off of Robinson/Noel so yeah not as the 5. Again would need to project his fit as 5 here.

There is no other big with his playmaking skillset out there. I think it's up to the coaching staff if they want a skilled player there or another roleplayer that is 3&D plus rim running. I'm fine with either personally, whatever they value more.

(05-09-2022, 01:16 PM)michaeltex Wrote: [ -> ]Which Randall are you trading for? 20-21 Randall pre-contract that was MIP candidate or 21-22 Randall that didn't seem to do much all year.

I don't think you just look at numbers. Sometimes they don't tell the whole story. Bertans is an elite 3 point shooter and you got everyone calling the guy a trash 3 point shooter cause they see his recent 3pt% and are like LOL DIS GUY FELL OFF A FKIN CLIFF.

Maxi and DP both bring unique skill sets that help DAL win games. Trading one (or both) away affects the team versatility. 

Maxi gives you some rim protection, help defense and an ability to pull his defender away due to his 3pt shooting.
DP provides energy, rim running, PnR partner for LD.

We just need to be careful about giving one of these roles up without a replacement.

(05-09-2022, 01:33 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think you just look at numbers. Sometimes they don't tell the whole story. Bertans is an elite 3 point shooter and you got everyone calling the guy a trash 3 point shooter cause they see his recent 3pt% and are like LOL DIS GUY FELL OFF A FKIN CLIFF.

Same with Randle.
He has one season he can’t miss and everyone is like MVP - WE COULD HAVE HIM FOR CHEAP.

(05-09-2022, 01:33 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think you just look at numbers. Sometimes they don't tell the whole story. Bertans is an elite 3 point shooter and you got everyone calling the guy a trash 3 point shooter cause they see his recent 3pt% and are like LOL DIS GUY FELL OFF A FKIN CLIFF.

No, but he was pretty much down across the board from last season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...l#per_game

Question is whether he is still worth an average of $29MM over the next 4 seasons. I like him as a player, but not sure how he fits with Kidd's offense. 

I'm still gun shy about taking on that much salary without answering some questions.