(03-07-2022, 01:38 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]I’m surprised so many would trade Bullock
Playoffs last year a big take away was we just didn’t have enough bodies to match up with multiple wings they were throwing at us. For 2 years it’s been Dorian and Maxi being run into the ground having to do it all defensively. Now we have another guy in Bullock to join that group(along with maybe Green too)……..I’m not seeing why we would want to trade a player like that who’s on a team friendly contract
I’m expecting Bullock to be 3rd or 4th in playoff minutes
Me too! Bullock AND Maxi. Throw in DFS and those are the kind of players I want to be adding to this thing - not subtract. I think that some Mavs fans have gotten so used to one way players that they can't see the value of these two way guys! Finally, the Mavs have started accumulating just the kind of players that are perfect around Doncic (can hit open shots, defend at a high level), and y'all want to trade them? Players that need to be gone are the remaining one ways: THJ is obviously the guy. I would take Bullock all day, every day over THJ - even at same salary. He is guarding 1-4 regularly and until the last few games, has been absolutely amazing shooting the ball. I would actually posit that he is being OVERUSED recently, which maybe has a bit of an effect on his shooting. He has been playing around 40 min per! But his D has been so good, so versatile, that he can't come off the floor.
Sign me up for a trade that finds a home for THJ, brings in a useful big, and continues the growth that this team has experienced the last couple of months - and accelerated since the trade added another point of attack. They have a great model going with player skillsets and are rotating them well having the personnel to do so. I believe that it is always nice to have more shooters, so I don't want to just give THJ away for air, but having SD/RB on the floor is preferable to him for this roster. If you can upgrade at the 4/5 using him, then do it. If you can get a really nice player - such as a Collins to help at a position of need, then yeah, make a bigger trade... but TH? No thanks. Even though he'd be good here, I wouldn't trade Bullock and Maxi for him even if the money was the same. I also believe that JG is growing into that same desired skillset and shouldn't be simply jettisoned in a trade that doesn't move the needle towards being a 2-way team.
This team has unlocked its potential by being able to attack the defense no matter if they try to take our primary away, and then being long and versatile on D. I can't see the Mavs moving away from that.
(03-07-2022, 03:04 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: [ -> ]Me too! Bullock AND Maxi. Throw in DFS and those are the kind of players I want to be adding to this thing - not subtract. I think that some Mavs fans have gotten so used to one way players that they can't see the value of these two way guys! Finally, the Mavs have started accumulating just the kind of players that are perfect around Doncic (can hit open shots, defend at a high level), and y'all want to trade them? Players that need to be gone are the remaining one ways: THJ is obviously the guy. I would take Bullock all day, every day over THJ - even at same salary. He is guarding 1-4 regularly and until the last few games, has been absolutely amazing shooting the ball. I would actually posit that he is being OVERUSED recently, which maybe has a bit of an effect on his shooting. He has been playing around 40 min per! But his D has been so good, so versatile, that he can't come off the floor.
Sign me up for a trade that finds a home for THJ, brings in a useful big, and continues the growth that this team has experienced the last couple of months - and accelerated since the trade added another point of attack. They have a great model going with player skillsets and are rotating them well having the personnel to do so. I believe that it is always nice to have more shooters, so I don't want to just give THJ away for air, but having SD/RB on the floor is preferable to him for this roster. If you can upgrade at the 4/5 using him, then do it. If you can get a really nice player - such as a Collins to help at a position of need, then yeah, make a bigger trade... but TH? No thanks. Even though he'd be good here, I wouldn't trade Bullock and Maxi for him even if the money was the same. I also believe that JG is growing into that same desired skillset and shouldn't be simply jettisoned in a trade that doesn't move the needle towards being a 2-way team.
This team has unlocked its potential by being able to attack the defense no matter if they try to take our primary away, and then being long and versatile on D. I can't see the Mavs moving away from that.
I tend to agree with most, if not all of this.
Consider Burke, Brown, Bobi, Frank and Chriss as roster flotsam. They are there to help you get through the grind of the regular season and potentially offer small salary filler to a deal. As far as 11-15 on a roster go, it is a pretty typical bag a meh that you would find on any NBA roster. I would like if one of the 11-15 guys next season were this year's first round pick.
The 1-10 spots kind of break down as follows:
Guards (96 minutes): Luka, JB, SD
Wings (96 Minutes): DFS, Bullock, Green
Bigs (48 Minutes): DP, Maxi
Overpaid Snipers: THJ, DB
Mavs need to improve the Bigs group and would be nice to add a 4th to the Wings group as well. I want them to hang on to Green and make their selection this year and see if they can develop some more cheap talent.
I think that means, for me, that it comes down to Bullock vs Maxi. I am not breaking up the 3 headed monster at guard (if JB stays). DFS isn't going anywhere and DP has more value to the Mavs than anyone else.
The Mavs may go a totally different route and look to deal the FRP and/or Green. If it's my offseason, I am looking at dealing one of Maxi/Bullock and hoping to deal one of THJ/DB.
(03-07-2022, 03:04 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: [ -> ]Me too! Bullock AND Maxi. Throw in DFS and those are the kind of players I want to be adding to this thing - not subtract. t.
I'm with you 100%.
Two-way players are crucial to raising the ceiling. We finally have a few. We need more of them, not less.
(03-07-2022, 12:04 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I don't get the comparison. Harris is playing a totally different solution and he would have basically zero effect on them. He should be compared to Maxi, not those two guys.
Right now we have 4 legit starters who you would prefer to have on the court finishing games: Luka/Brunson/DFS/Dinwiddie. Adding Harris to that group will not make sense in a lot of cases (no rim protection at all). Assuming we get a legit center in the offseason, then you will need to replace one of those 4 guys. Due to positional flex in that group, it could be any one of them. DFS is the closest to Harris position, but don't think it makes sense to replace our best defensive player with a 4th offense first player. It obviously wont be Luka. So that means you are replacing either Brunson or Din in the finishing lineup with Harris. Don't know if he is any better than those two. Do we really want to trade for a 40 mil player that does not make our finishing lineup any better?
I would still prioritize using our assets for a 4 who can play small ball 5 at times. I would look for a rookie or low cost veteran to fill in at the backup 5. I am having trouble identify the guy I want at 4 though. In last years draft, there were four guys who I think fit this profile: Mobley, Barnes, Wagner, Kuminga (not ready yet, but in time should be very good). None of those guys are available. This years draft looks to have four of those types of players: Holmgren, Jabari Smith and Bancharo. None of those guys will be available to us either.
There are some guys i like, but not love. Or guys I love, who aren't available. So I am having trouble finding a guy who I would go all in for.
Question- Dinwiddie recently called Theo Pinson the best hype man in the league. Dallas is keeping him on a two way contract even though he is out with a surgery. Do you think they would think carrying both Pinson and Boban on the roster next year when they provide very little help on the court?
(03-07-2022, 03:25 PM)MaxiThreeba Wrote: [ -> ]I tend to agree with most, if not all of this.
Consider Burke, Brown, Bobi, Frank and Chriss as roster flotsam. They are there to help you get through the grind of the regular season and potentially offer small salary filler to a deal. As far as 11-15 on a roster go, it is a pretty typical bag a meh that you would find on any NBA roster. I would like if one of the 11-15 guys next season were this year's first round pick.
The 1-10 spots kind of break down as follows:
Guards (96 minutes): Luka, JB, SD
Wings (96 Minutes): DFS, Bullock, Green
Bigs (48 Minutes): DP, Maxi
Overpaid Snipers: THJ, DB
Mavs need to improve the Bigs group and would be nice to add a 4th to the Wings group as well. I want them to hang on to Green and make their selection this year and see if they can develop some more cheap talent.
I think that means, for me, that it comes down to Bullock vs Maxi. I am not breaking up the 3 headed monster at guard (if JB stays). DFS isn't going anywhere and DP has more value to the Mavs than anyone else.
The Mavs may go a totally different route and look to deal the FRP and/or Green. If it's my offseason, I am looking at dealing one of Maxi/Bullock and hoping to deal one of THJ/DB.
If your goal is to improve the bigs and add a wing, then the simplest route is to take advantage of Maxi versatility, push him to the wing group (as well as backup big) and trade one of your overpriced snippers (and probably adding the pick) for a legit starting big.
(03-07-2022, 03:04 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: [ -> ]Me too! Bullock AND Maxi. Throw in DFS and those are the kind of players I want to be adding to this thing - not subtract. I think that some Mavs fans have gotten so used to one way players that they can't see the value of these two way guys! Finally, the Mavs have started accumulating just the kind of players that are perfect around Doncic (can hit open shots, defend at a high level), and y'all want to trade them? Players that need to be gone are the remaining one ways: THJ is obviously the guy. I would take Bullock all day, every day over THJ - even at same salary. He is guarding 1-4 regularly and until the last few games, has been absolutely amazing shooting the ball. I would actually posit that he is being OVERUSED recently, which maybe has a bit of an effect on his shooting. He has been playing around 40 min per! But his D has been so good, so versatile, that he can't come off the floor.
Sign me up for a trade that finds a home for THJ, brings in a useful big, and continues the growth that this team has experienced the last couple of months - and accelerated since the trade added another point of attack. They have a great model going with player skillsets and are rotating them well having the personnel to do so. I believe that it is always nice to have more shooters, so I don't want to just give THJ away for air, but having SD/RB on the floor is preferable to him for this roster. If you can upgrade at the 4/5 using him, then do it. If you can get a really nice player - such as a Collins to help at a position of need, then yeah, make a bigger trade... but TH? No thanks. Even though he'd be good here, I wouldn't trade Bullock and Maxi for him even if the money was the same. I also believe that JG is growing into that same desired skillset and shouldn't be simply jettisoned in a trade that doesn't move the needle towards being a 2-way team.
This team has unlocked its potential by being able to attack the defense no matter if they try to take our primary away, and then being long and versatile on D. I can't see the Mavs moving away from that.
Raise your hand if you
don’t want to trade THJ for the perfect fitting starting C on this team. No one? Anyone here. 3, 2, 1 go! Still?
Ok, now that there were no hands raised. Name your trade! Name names that you believe THJ is worth, would be available and the other team agrees with your assessment.
(03-07-2022, 04:14 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]I would still prioritize using our assets for a 4 who can play small ball 5 at times. I would look for a rookie or low cost veteran to fill in at the backup 5. I am having trouble identify the guy I want at 4 though. In last years draft, there were four guys who I think fit this profile: Mobley, Barnes, Wagner, Kuminga (not ready yet, but in time should be very good). None of those guys are available. This years draft looks to have four of those types of players: Holmgren, Jabari Smith and Bancharo. None of those guys will be available to us either.
There are some guys i like, but not love. Or guys I love, who aren't available. So I am having trouble finding a guy who I would go all in for.
Question- Dinwiddie recently called Theo Pinson the best hype man in the league. Dallas is keeping him on a two way contract even though he is out with a surgery. Do you think they would think carrying both Pinson and Boban on the roster next year when they provide very little help on the court?
Exactly. That is why I have been in love with adding Collins. I think he is that dude who would make this thing really hum. Id be in for multiple 1st rounders if we could pry him away from ATL. Just a really nice, versatile player that can play D in space, protect the rim a bit, spread the floor, AND rim roll. He would be a good rebounder here too. He was a 10 rebound a game guy before he got paired with Capela and still gets 7-8 a game next to that vacuum cleaner. Can't think of any non-allstar/rookie scale player that would be a better fit right now. I am just praying that they miss the playoffs somehow so that they might be in the mood to make a change there. I thought we had a chance before they went to the ECF last season and crushed it.
(03-07-2022, 04:23 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Raise your hand if you don’t want to trade THJ for the perfect fitting starting C on this team. No one? Anyone here. 3, 2, 1 go! Still?
Ok, now that there were no hands raised. Name your trade! Name names that you believe THJ is worth, would be available and the other team agrees with your assessment.
I guess what I was saying in my post was that I would rather carry THJ and bargain shop for another big and run it back than trade Bullock/DFS/Maxi for the players being mentioned. It is obviously possible that we don't find the exact trade that we would want and are stuck with THJ for now. But I don't want to double down on that mistake and remove players that are actually what we need to be successful. We are currently witnessing the worse case scenario where we just bury THJ (since he isn't even playing) or he gets a smaller role. What I don't want to see is going back to the time when we didn't have enough of those 3D guys. Furthermore, I have said that there are certain players that trading for could get me off one of them... and Collins is one of those. But the fit would have to be perfect and they would need to be a 2way to replace the 2way leaving. I don't see a scenario where I would trade 2 of them in the same trade. But we shall see. I am pretty satisfied right now. Give this team some time to come to equilibrium - SD/JB/DFS are burning the nets right now and can't possibly maintain this pace.
(03-07-2022, 01:38 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]I’m surprised so many would trade Bullock
Playoffs last year a big take away was we just didn’t have enough bodies to match up with multiple wings they were throwing at us. For 2 years it’s been Dorian and Maxi being run into the ground having to do it all defensively. Now we have another guy in Bullock to join that group(along with maybe Green too)……..I’m not seeing why we would want to trade a player like that who’s on a team friendly contract
I’m expecting Bullock to be 3rd or 4th in playoff minutes
I'm not interested in trading Bullock unless we get a player who is a notch better than him. He's a good player on a reasonable contract and plays a role that the Mavs need.
(03-07-2022, 04:57 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: [ -> ]I guess what I was saying in my post was that I would rather carry THJ and bargain shop for another big and run it back than trade Bullock/DFS/Maxi for the players being mentioned. It is obviously possible that we don't find the exact trade that we would want and are stuck with THJ for now. But I don't want to double down on that mistake and remove players that are actually what we need to be successful. We are currently witnessing the worse case scenario where we just bury THJ (since he isn't even playing) or he gets a smaller role. What I don't want to see is going back to the time when we didn't have enough of those 3D guys. Furthermore, I have said that there are certain players that trading for could get me off one of them... and Collins is one of those. But the fit would have to be perfect and they would need to be a 2way to replace the 2way leaving. I don't see a scenario where I would trade 2 of them in the same trade. But we shall see. I am pretty satisfied right now. Give this team some time to come to equilibrium - SD/JB/DFS are burning the nets right now and can't possibly maintain this pace.
100% with you. If nothing is out there, then I’d be fine with running it back and waiting for the TDL. THJ and DB would be high priced 8th and 9th dudes on the roster, but let’s keep the band/chemistry together. We are cooking……..in that scenario we just re-sign Brunson. Dump burke and brown. Make our pick and have a roster spot for a vet min big man(look at boogie). They’re available every year
We need the Grant/Collins player to really take this thing to a high level. I’m not giving up more than 22 FRP and Green though. We need to save all the future picks for a true star.
(03-07-2022, 04:43 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. That is why I have been in love with adding Collins. I think he is that dude who would make this thing really hum. Id be in for multiple 1st rounders if we could pry him away from ATL. Just a really nice, versatile player that can play D in space, protect the rim a bit, spread the floor, AND rim roll. He would be a good rebounder here too. He was a 10 rebound a game guy before he got paired with Capela and still gets 7-8 a game next to that vacuum cleaner. Can't think of any non-allstar/rookie scale player that would be a better fit right now. I am just praying that they miss the playoffs somehow so that they might be in the mood to make a change there. I thought we had a chance before they went to the ECF last season and crushed it.
I'm a big fan of Collins, but I am probably in the minority of wanting him primarily at the 5. A Collins/DFS/Luka/Din/Brunson closing 5 would be unstoppable on offense, and might still be top 10 defense due to Kidd. I think that team would probably be a contender.
Collins will be good at offense but I do not think he will hold up defensively as a 5.
I still think getting a two-way player like Grant is the way to improve the roster.
I also think Holmes will be a good fit at center for the Mavs. He is comparable to Powell in many ways only better. Sac may want THJ as a shooter and veteran presence. I think he has still value for some teams.
Bertans, Green, FRP for Grant; and, THJ for Holmes and Holiday would round up the Mavs roster.
I have a feeling, the Mavs will target players who fits the current Mavs system offensively and defensively.
Grant is comparable to what DFS, Maxiand Bullock does for the Mavs, and Holmes can do what Powell can.
I'm not even thinking about Collins. There is no chance the Mavs can get him.
Can Maxi + Bertans + a late FRP get it done? - Nope
Can THJ + Green + a late FRP get it done? - Probably not
Obviously, the best C out there that can be available is Holmes.
But there's one other big who might be available who may not cost the Mavs a pick.
Lauri - Remember him? big who can't defend, calling card is shooting, I think he is overpaid, but can we just swap our overpaid SG who's calling card is supposedly shooting? Just upgrade THJ to a 7 foot version of him. Cavs do not have enough guards, THJ can fit right in. Down side of this is that Mavs might have to commit with 2 no-defense-shoot-only bigs in Bertans and Lauri at PF. Not exactly the big help in rebounding the Mavs need, but I am quite sure THJ provides less rebounding and less of the shot blocking than a 7 footer who could at least, stand up and put his arms in the air and be a token barrier. And also, there's the looming problem with how to juggle PT with THJ. If JB stays with the Mavs and SD continues to shine, then there's practically no role for THJ. His best bet is dislodge RB and Green which may not be easy to do. And if Kidd manages to squeeze THJ right in, the Mavs would be wing-guard heavy with no real talent from 4 and 5. If the Mavs can get Turner for THJ then fine, but I see THJ's value in line with Holmes and Lauri.
In the simplest measurement, Dallas could really use rebounding.
You can certainly upgrade your current rotation in other ways, but it doesn't seem necessary to trade someone like Bullock who is doing exactly what we expected and is a good locker room fit. And the way the current roster is constructed, my guess any kind of C/PF will need to be athletic enough to handle switches given the way Kidd is managing his defensive strategy.
I don't think the rebounds need to come from a starter, but it will need to be someone who is a substantial contributor in the rotation to change the team rebounding statistics.
Powell is a bit of an anomaly here, because his play with Luca is so tight in the P&R. Trading him could effect the offense unless you get a similar return plus rebounding. Kleber may possibly have more value to an interested team. THJ may actually be a plus coming off the bench for this team, so I'm not insistent that he be moved. As someone else mentioned, the Mavs have a lot of flotsam with Boban, Frankie, and a few others. They could make room.
Considering our team's current play, my ideal for next season would be to add Dragic for a manageable salary, and trade for a good (athletic) rebounding C\PF. Collins seems like a real stretch, so I doubt that's in the cards. But other players are out there.
(03-08-2022, 10:27 AM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]In the simplest measurement, Dallas could really use rebounding.
You can certainly upgrade your current rotation in other ways, but it doesn't seem necessary to trade someone like Bullock who is doing exactly what we expected and is a good locker room fit. And the way the current roster is constructed, my guess any kind of C/PF will need to be athletic enough to handle switches given the way Kidd is managing his defensive strategy.
I don't think the rebounds need to come from a starter, but it will need to be someone who is a substantial contributor in the rotation to change the team rebounding statistics.
Powell is a bit of an anomaly here, because his play with Luca is so tight in the P&R. Trading him could effect the offense unless you get a similar return plus rebounding. Kleber may possibly have more value to an interested team. THJ may actually be a plus coming off the bench for this team, so I'm not insistent that he be moved. As someone else mentioned, the Mavs have a lot of flotsam with Boban, Frankie, and a few others. They could make room.
Considering our team's current play, my ideal for next season would be to add Dragic for a manageable salary, and trade for a good (athletic) rebounding C\PF. Collins seems like a real stretch, so I doubt that's in the cards. But other players are out there.
I would argue that we need rim protection as much as rebounding, and we need it packaged in a switchable big that can legitimately start/finish games. Holmes makes the most sense because he fits the description while also being a distressed asset. Collins is probably a pipe dream. There are other options out there, but its hard to know who is available and what the cost would be.
(03-08-2022, 07:09 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I would argue that we need rim protection as much as rebounding,
I did think of that before I posted, but I think you really have to get specific when you talk about it. There are defensive measurements for that kind of play, but we are mostly eyeballing that quality when we talk about it here. It's not just blocks.
So I don't disagree, but I'm not at all sure that there's anyone out there that comes to mind that is both a rim protector and can simultaneously defend wings. That's what everyone is looking for isn't it? Who fits that quality for you?
(03-08-2022, 09:41 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]I did think of that before I posted, but I think you really have to get specific when you talk about it. There are defensive measurements for that kind of play, but we are mostly eyeballing that quality when we talk about it here. It's not just blocks.
So I don't disagree, but I'm not at all sure that there's anyone out there that comes to mind that is both a rim protector and can simultaneously defend wings. That's what everyone is looking for isn't it? Who fits that quality for you?
PJ Washington?
(03-08-2022, 10:17 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]PJ Washington?
PJ is not a C, or really a rim protector. I am not against acquiring him, because he is about as close to a DFS clone as there is in the league, but a little younger. But I don't think he fills the role you are looking to fill. He's 6'7" btw. I'd love to clone dfs and have them running around out there.
(03-08-2022, 10:28 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: [ -> ]PJ is not a C, or really a rim protector. I am not against acquiring him, because he is about as close to a DFS clone as there is in the league, but a little younger. But I don't think he fills the role you are looking to fill. He's 6'7" btw. I'd love to clone dfs and have them running around out there.
Article from yesterday
https://www.si.com/nba/hornets/.amp/news...difference
His effort tonight defensively, his energy and activity. He is so athletic and bouncy and he had some huge blocked shots, his attention at the rim. He is winning at the rim and for us to take the next step defensively – since Christmas we are ranked eighth in defense and PJ is a big reason why.”
“Love P," LaMelo Ball said. "He can shoot the rock and also, I feel like he can guard 1 through 5, so it’s definitely a big help. He’s always in the lane, big, gets rebounds and like I said, he can shoot. I feel like he can do it all.”