(12-29-2021, 01:07 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]This opinion may not fly with the KP doomers, but when I look at both sides of the deal (team needs, age, skill, productivity, etc) I think a fair trade would be KP for Brown straight-up (Boston would have to include another small salary for cap purposes, but that's just a numbers thing). IMO Dallas and Boston are in a similar spot with two young stars that aren't adding up to the expected number of wins. A simple trade of Robin for Robin in positions of need would arguably help both teams. But piling on assets beyond that quickly does more harm than good.
It's less crazy than it was over the summer, that's for sure. We can hope!
I don't think Brown is even available, really, but I'd love to have him.
(12-28-2021, 09:18 PM)RedFlag41 Wrote: [ -> ]How about KP, Brunson and 2 future FRPs for Jaylen Brown?
Jaylen Brown is a two-way player, can score and can defend alongside Luka.
KP can play the 4 and the 5 for the Celtics, Brunson can play the scoring guard they need alongside Smart who will be a better fit with him in the backcourt.
I love the trade, but I'd go a step further and see what the Celts would like for Tatum.
I've been casually following the Celts since last year since Tatum randomly complimented Dallas as a city to play basketball in and their fans. So far Boston fans are getting tired of the Tatum/Brown duo and are starting to wonder if it'd ever work. Tatum has been playing hero ball a lot in the 4th and their fans are frustrated since Brown has been more efficient.
KP+JB actually make a lot of sense for them as they need a heady PG plus a better big than Robert Williams. KP+JB+Kleber+S.Brown+2 FRP+2 pick swaps for Tatum+Horford is a splashy move I think both teams need.
(12-28-2021, 09:18 PM)RedFlag41 Wrote: [ -> ]How about KP, Brunson and 2 future FRPs for Jaylen Brown?
Jaylen Brown is a two-way player, can score and can defend alongside Luka.
KP can play the 4 and the 5 for the Celtics, Brunson can play the scoring guard they need alongside Smart who will be a better fit with him in the backcourt.
I like Jaylen but I don't think either team does that trade. Giving up KP, Brunson and 2 FRPs would need to be for a perennial all-star. I also believe Celtics still want to try to add to Tatum, Brown, rather than break them up. So no for me dog.
(12-29-2021, 04:41 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I love the trade, but I'd go a step further and see what the Celts would like for Tatum.
They aren't trading Tatum and they would want Luka. So it's just not going to happen. That is their franchise star.
I don't think Boston would be interested in either deal but they aren't going to trade Tatum. He's younger and his contract is a year longer, two if he picks up his option. They'd also look to use one of them to upgrade. KP is a side-grade at best and because of injuries and position, more than likely viewed as a downgrade. Boston would set their sights higher and go after a Lillard, Beal or Simmons.
(12-28-2021, 11:45 PM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]I'm on board with the basic framework of KP+stuff for Brown, but it needs to be only one of Brunson and the picks, not both.
I would do KP for Brown straight up basically if the Celtics are desperate. I don't think they are yet, they have other moves they can make to re-shuffle around Brown and Tatum. Smart seems like an obvious candidate to try to trade. They don't really have a point guard. Schroder is a rental they can't resign.
If I am them I would try to trade Smart and Schroder for something better.
I just don't see Cuban trading KP unless a trade for equal or greater value somehow falls out of the sky, IE a star player on a non-terrible contract. He's gone on record before saying that trading an all star caliber player (which is how he sees KP) basically never works out. Since I don't expect a trade like that to ever materialize due to KP's injury history, I think we're stuck with re-shuffling the deck chairs until his contract expires in 2024.
Also, I don't see them trading for a big money/big minutes center with KP on the roster, despite them insisting on starting a big next to him right now. I think they only plan on playing KP next to another center for maybe 10-20 minutes a game so I expect them to continue the bullpen approach and keep several different types of centers on smaller contracts instead. So I don't see a trade for a Turner/Capela/Holmes type happening.
I also don't see them trading Brunson unless he straight up tells them he will not re-sign with us this summer. He's emerged as a locker room leader and is a homegrown foundation piece that I think they really value. Same with DFS. So again, unless either of them flat out says they will not be coming back, I think we'll keep them and try to re-sign them this summer.
So all that leads me to believe that if we look into a trade this year, it will involve THJ and/or Bullock with S. Brown, Powell, Burke, and WCS as your potential salary filler. I think the target will be a big wing that has a little bit of playmaking ability. Jerami Grant fits this criteria the best but lots of teams want him so who knows if we have enough to trade for him.
So the question is, what, if any, value do THJ and Bullock have and who could we potentially trade them for? What kind of package could THJ/Bullock/salary filler and maybe a first rounder get in return? And which teams could use someone like THJ?
(12-29-2021, 05:05 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: [ -> ]So the question is, what, if any, value do THJ and Bullock have and who could we potentially trade them for? What kind of package could THJ/Bullock/salary filler and maybe a first rounder get in return? And which teams could use someone like THJ?
I think the only team that would want Bullock right now is NYK. Fournier hasn't been great for them. I would be interested in a Noel for Bullock trade. Bullock would likely start over Fournier.
THJ's value is pretty questionable right now. I don't think teams would give anything up for him right now of value, not to say some teams wouldn't want him on their roster. That basically means he is a 'neutral' value player. A team might give you some contracts that expire for THJ but they aren't going to give up anything good.
My feeling is Mavs will just play this thing out at least to the summer and re-evaluate. THJ's defense isn't going to get better but his shooting probably will so his value might be closer to where it was last summer.
If it was up to me I would be interested in just getting his money off the books sooner than later so that I am not paying tax for a mediocre player. My favorite dump trade would be sending him to Orlando for Gary Harris who is having a pretty good year and is expiring. Harris also is a good to great perimeter defender. Magic have Mosley so I think they would be interested in THJ as a decent piece that they could get for nothing basically.
(12-29-2021, 05:13 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I think the only team that would want Bullock right now is NYK. Fournier hasn't been great for them. I would be interested in a Noel for Bullock trade. Bullock would likely start over Fournier.
THJ's value is pretty questionable right now. I don't think teams would give anything up for him right now of value, not to say some teams wouldn't want him on their roster. That basically means he is a 'neutral' value player. A team might give you some contracts that expire for THJ but they aren't going to give up anything good.
My feeling is Mavs will just play this thing out at least to the summer and re-evaluate. THJ's defense isn't going to get better but his shooting probably will so his value might be closer to where it was last summer.
If it was up to me I would be interested in just getting his money off the books sooner than later so that I am not paying tax for a mediocre player. My favorite dump trade would be sending him to Orlando for Gary Harris who is having a pretty good year and is expiring. Harris also is a good to great perimeter defender. Magic have Mosley so I think they would be interested in THJ as a decent piece that they could get for nothing basically.
Just a straight dump of THJ for expiring Harris isn't quite enough since were still operating over the cap anyways. However, THJ for Harris + Bamba might be enough value and it does barely work as a salary match for a trade.
Maxi / Bullock to Suns ..
2x1 2 good defenders improve their depth for Cam a year before having to pay him
Theis / Cam Johnson to Mavs
J.Smith / Saric + 2 seconds (Mavs) to Houston
(They save future money and prospect ... )
We get Cam which should be a good long term fit and Theis which ticks a few boxes of what we need ...
THJ I doubt he had any value in that crazy contract we gave him. I dont know..
THJ / WCS for Love / Sexton .. We get the rights of Sexton and Love expiring who is playing very well ..?
(12-29-2021, 06:01 PM)Okstate819 Wrote: [ -> ]Just a straight dump of THJ for expiring Harris isn't quite enough since were still operating over the cap anyways. However, THJ for Harris + Bamba might be enough value and it does barely work as a salary match for a trade.
Not sure what you are talking ab, THJ is at 21, Harris is 20. A one-for-one trade is easy cap wise.
if we're not sure we can keep Jalen ... THJ / WCS / Brunson for Zubac / Kennard / Keon
We get out of a THJ contract and get a cheaper, younger better shooter, a decent center, and a prospect ... that we can use to sweeten or develop a trade.
(12-29-2021, 04:51 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]They aren't trading Tatum and they would want Luka. So it's just not going to happen. That is their franchise star.
You'd be surprised.. Well renowned Celtics fanatic Bill Simmons has toyed with the idea of Brown over Tatum given how much more of a team player Brown appears to be.
In any case I agree both are low chances to be traded. But I wouldn't be surprised if Boston were to move on from either.
(12-29-2021, 05:05 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: [ -> ]I just don't see Cuban trading KP unless a trade for equal or greater value somehow falls out of the sky, IE a star player on a non-terrible contract. He's gone on record before saying that trading an all star caliber player (which is how he sees KP) basically never works out. Since I don't expect a trade like that to ever materialize due to KP's injury history, I think we're stuck with re-shuffling the deck chairs until his contract expires in 2024.
Also, I don't see them trading for a big money/big minutes center with KP on the roster, despite them insisting on starting a big next to him right now. I think they only plan on playing KP next to another center for maybe 10-20 minutes a game so I expect them to continue the bullpen approach and keep several different types of centers on smaller contracts instead. So I don't see a trade for a Turner/Capela/Holmes type happening.
I also don't see them trading Brunson unless he straight up tells them he will not re-sign with us this summer. He's emerged as a locker room leader and is a homegrown foundation piece that I think they really value. Same with DFS. So again, unless either of them flat out says they will not be coming back, I think we'll keep them and try to re-sign them this summer.
So all that leads me to believe that if we look into a trade this year, it will involve THJ and/or Bullock with S. Brown, Powell, Burke, and WCS as your potential salary filler. I think the target will be a big wing that has a little bit of playmaking ability. Jerami Grant fits this criteria the best but lots of teams want him so who knows if we have enough to trade for him.
So the question is, what, if any, value do THJ and Bullock have and who could we potentially trade them for? What kind of package could THJ/Bullock/salary filler and maybe a first rounder get in return? And which teams could use someone like THJ?
I agree with all of this except if they don't want to trade away Brunson/DFS due to home grown and "leadership" then why would they be so willing to dump THJ for air? He was apparently a top free agent priority and part of the "leadership council" with Luka and KP.
Assuming they don't want to trade any of those guys, it means either they are paying tax to run it back (don't see Cuban doing this) or spending assets just to dump salary. I'm not sure Powell is on that untradeable list as well (and if we are staying under the tax, no way to replace him). The only way to keep this team intact and stay under the tax would be to somehow dump Bullock, Boban and Burke. Probably need to let go of Brown as well.
It will be very interesting to see what Cuban/Nico do at the TDL. If they don't trade THJ for an expiring or trade Brunson, it will take a lot of work to get under the tax next year.
(12-29-2021, 06:45 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]You'd be surprised.. Well renowned Celtics fanatic Bill Simmons has toyed with the idea of Brown over Tatum given how much more of a team player Brown appears to be.
In any case I agree both are low chances to be traded. But I wouldn't be surprised if Boston were to move on from either.
Bill Simmons is little more than a super fan with a platform. Him toying with an idea gives zero credence to what a team might or might not do.
(12-29-2021, 06:01 PM)Okstate819 Wrote: [ -> ]Just a straight dump of THJ for expiring Harris isn't quite enough since were still operating over the cap anyways. However, THJ for Harris + Bamba might be enough value and it does barely work as a salary match for a trade.
The point of dumping THJ for Harris is not to get cap space (there would have to be a massive sell of to get to that point). The purpose would be to get under the tax for next year (Harris is expiring). If we are re-signing Brunson and DFS then we are going to be close to 20 mil over the tax line without making any other moves. Landing and then signing Bamba would mean more salary to dump (maybe Powell). I think Bamba has some value and not sure that THJ does, so don't see Orlando doing this.
How about a Maxi (unfortunately) + Bullock for Levert? Could be the secondary ballhandler (go get his) that we need pairing with Luka. At 6"6 he has some defensive upside and no doubt can create for himself and others. We probably would have to get a Boucher for the TPE (save Raptors from tax) to fill some PF spots.
Luka/Brunson
Levert/Thimothy
DFS/Green
KP/Boucher
Powell/Moses
(12-29-2021, 06:55 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Bill Simmons is little more than a super fan with a platform. Him toying with an idea gives zero credence to what a team might or might not do.
I wasn't implying that Simmons had any insider knowledge, but rather as a litmus test. Simmons toying with an idea given that he's a superfan shows that even the most avid Celtic fans are at least receptive to a Tatum trade.
To me that is news in and of itself.
(12-29-2021, 08:12 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I wasn't implying that Simmons had any insider knowledge, but rather as a litmus test. Simmons toying with an idea given that he's a superfan shows that even the most avid Celtic fans are at least receptive to a Tatum trade.
To me that is news in and of itself.
Yeah, Simmons was opposed to including either in a trade for Anthony Davis back when there was a chance to form a super team with Kyrie Irving, so he might be the Tatum/Brown duo's biggest fan, historically. If he's really open to trading either, I'd say that's an interesting window into how the fans think things are going in Boston.
What do you think about the idea of trading Jalen Brunson and Reggie Bullock to the Lakers for THT and Kendrick Nunn.
JB will provide scoring for the Lakers off the bench or in the starting line up, RB will, provide defense and shooting.
THT has the potential to be a better fit alongside Luka with defense some scoring and playmaking. Kendrick Nunn will replace JB as a scoring guard off the bench.