While I am ok with trading THJ + (Burke, Brown, Bertans, and/or pick), I’m not opposed to running it back with the addition of a backup center. We need another playable center who can backup Powell and allow Maxi to play the 4 except when we need to play 5 out. Ideally I’d only play Maxi at the 5 the last 4 or 5 minutes of each half or maybe even just the second half. I am also curious to see THJ playing with SD in our second unit. I’d like to see a second unit of SD/THJ/Green/Maxi/new center. Unless we get a starting caliber center like Turner I’d hold on to THJ until the trade deadline next year. Let’s see what we have before we dump him. I am also not in favor of trading Maxi. I’d only trade Powell if we’re getting a starting center who “checks all the boxes.”
(04-30-2022, 07:44 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Realistic to think we’ll trade pieces for something useful, sure. A starting center or wing? Nope. Not unless you put DFS on the block.
You guys have your own thing going here, but I'll just chime in to ask why Dallas would look for a starting wing player at all. I understand Dallas needs a functional center with better skills that can give you 25-30 mpg, but it's the bench rotation that needs help at every position.
Thj could be that guy coming off the bench, or he could produce a trade package for a wing with maybe a little more defense than THj - a strong 6th man candidate.
But every passing game feels more and more like that Mavs starting rotation is solid outside of the C/PF position. It's the bench players that need upgrading in my mind.
I'm not for trading Kleber, and surprisingly (at least for me), even DP too.
You add to both rather than replace.
I'm not a big fan of Gobert now (I was before last season's playoffs), so I am not thrilled with trading for him. But if the cost is Bertans+THJ+a pick? No questions asked, that's a deal I would take.
Mavs need to add a big, my preference still is trading THJ and somehow end up with Holmes or Turner (JC, PJ Wash and even Wood doesn't seem realistic to me).
But if the Mavs can't get a quality big, I' settle for pick swaps:
Muscala + 34 for either Brown or Burke + 26
Naz Reid + 40 for either Brown or Burke + 26
Jalen McDaniels + 40 for either Brown or Burke + 26
Jaxson Hayes + 47 for either Brown or Burke + 26
Olynk + 46 for Bertans + 26 (if Detroit bites, then why not? they have no one to pay for anyway and 20 spots is a big jump).
(01-15-2022, 05:51 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]I was really surprised the option was picked up and he was brought back. I thought for sure we would look to upgrade that spot.
But I am sure Dragic played into this decision and the Mavs made the decision his salary could have helped in a deal for Dragic.
I have been rough on WCS for awhile. I heard him interviewed last year and he came across as a really thoughtful guy. I hope whatever he is dealing with is not serious.
(04-30-2022, 09:18 PM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not for trading Kleber, and surprisingly (at least for me), even DP too.
You add to both rather than replace.
I'm not a big fan of Gobert now (I was before last season's playoffs), so I am not thrilled with trading for him. But if the cost is Bertans+THJ+a pick? No questions asked, that's a deal I would take.
Mavs need to add a big, my preference still is trading THJ and somehow end up with Holmes or Turner (JC, PJ Wash and even Wood doesn't seem realistic to me).
But if the Mavs can't get a quality big, I' settle for pick swaps:
Muscala + 34 for either Brown or Burke + 26
Naz Reid + 40 for either Brown or Burke + 26
Jalen McDaniels + 40 for either Brown or Burke + 26
Jaxson Hayes + 47 for either Brown or Burke + 26
Olynk + 46 for Bertans + 26 (if Detroit bites, then why not? they have no one to pay for anyway and 20 spots is a big jump).
Olynk is the type of backup center I wouldn‘t mind trying to get. If 26 is the cost off getting off Bertans, then go for it. But I wouldn’t make the trade until the draft and we see who is actually available at 26. It’s possible our backup center may be at 26.
(04-30-2022, 08:58 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Find a way to draft Mark Williams. I think that's the best answer.
If we can get a mid-1st draft pick and draft our future starting C, sure, but I'm not sure that would be cheaper than Turner.
(04-29-2022, 11:18 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Collins was a plus defender before Trae Young arrived. If the current set-up is the way forward then Collins should be high on the target list.
The guy that will haunt us forever is Jarrett Allen. Dante Exum, a very late 1st round pick and an early 2nd round pick for Allen/Prince. Given the stupid amount of picks we spend on Richardson/Wright´s equal performance levels to Prince (and his contract), we basically could have traded Trey Burke for Jarrett Allen.
Need to constantly be looking out for deals like this. They're always out there. I was saying to get Bullock for dirt cheap when he was done at Detroit. Also with KCP, Bobby Portis, etc. Usually some players out there that are great buy low candidates that will contribute to winning and I don't think they're really that difficult to spot. Someone like Collins is already established and has a clear place in the league. He had some strong suitors when he was in FA and he will have lots of suitors now if he's on the trade block. Really doubt there will be value in trying to outbid other teams there. Turner may even get stronger bidders than the THJ + 26 everyone is trying to throw out.
Sayin it again, imo Jaxson Hayes is a decent candidate to be like Jarrett Allen was back then. He should be a much better fit on this team. It may be possible to do a THJ based deal with NO. They were the team that was trying to get him this past offseason before he took a paycut to stay and from what they're saying, sounds like they could still use a volume 3pt shooter. They likely want to get off their Devonte Graham contract, so there's some options to get Hayes while still keeping the 26th pick. Although Graham is not someone the Mavs would want, he is cheaper than THJ. Maybe could do a multiteamer involving THJ (+some other expirings?) + 26 where they trade Hayes and shed Graham to someone else.
Big fan of the J. Hayes-idea. Looks like a great fit here.
Can we re-sign Brunson and absorb Hayes into the TPE while sending out our 1st? I could see that be enough ammo for a trade or at least be close enough to it.
Dude was in the 88th percentile as a PnR finisher and shot the three relatively efficient while slowly increasing the amount of threes. Maybe you get a 3-4 threes per game shooter on 35% in a few years on top of the Pnr stuff from him. He’s still very young.
(04-30-2022, 07:44 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Won’t get you a center who can defend 5 out. Might get you one who can hit 3s, like Gallinari. Don’t think he’d start.
Realistic to think we’ll trade pieces for something useful, sure. A starting center or wing? Nope. Not unless you put DFS on the block.
What is this assessment based on? Centers are the cheapest commodity out there. Its not like our starting center is an elite perimeter defender. Guys like Holmes, Capela, Collins, Poeltl, Washington would all handle 5 out just fine. A package of THJ, Green and the pick would be enough to get some of those guys.
No interest in Gallinari. He is a sieve on defense, and his offense is not near what it was. We basically already have that player in Bertans.
(04-30-2022, 11:56 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: [ -> ]Need to constantly be looking out for deals like this. They're always out there. I was saying to get Bullock for dirt cheap when he was done at Detroit. Also with KCP, Bobby Portis, etc. Usually some players out there that are great buy low candidates that will contribute to winning and I don't think they're really that difficult to spot. Someone like Collins is already established and has a clear place in the league. He had some strong suitors when he was in FA and he will have lots of suitors now if he's on the trade block. Really doubt there will be value in trying to outbid other teams there. Turner may even get stronger bidders than the THJ + 26 everyone is trying to throw out.
Sayin it again, imo Jaxson Hayes is a decent candidate to be like Jarrett Allen was back then. He should be a much better fit on this team. It may be possible to do a THJ based deal with NO. They were the team that was trying to get him this past offseason before he took a paycut to stay and from what they're saying, sounds like they could still use a volume 3pt shooter. They likely want to get off their Devonte Graham contract, so there's some options to get Hayes while still keeping the 26th pick. Although Graham is not someone the Mavs would want, he is cheaper than THJ. Maybe could do a multiteamer involving THJ (+some other expirings?) + 26 where they trade Hayes and shed Graham to someone else.
Honestly I would be willing to send THJ plus the pick for Graham plus Hayes. Graham is not a perfect fit due to lack of defense, but he is a quality volume shooter that can also distribute the ball. I'm ok giving up the pick in this case because we are getting a young player who can develop into a quality starter. We just shifted the timeline a couple of years so he can contribute right away.
(04-30-2022, 09:18 PM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not for trading Kleber, and surprisingly (at least for me), even DP too.
You add to both rather than replace.
I'm not a big fan of Gobert now (I was before last season's playoffs), so I am not thrilled with trading for him. But if the cost is Bertans+THJ+a pick? No questions asked, that's a deal I would take.
Mavs need to add a big, my preference still is trading THJ and somehow end up with Holmes or Turner (JC, PJ Wash and even Wood doesn't seem realistic to me).
But if the Mavs can't get a quality big, I' settle for pick swaps:
Muscala + 34 for either Brown or Burke + 26
Naz Reid + 40 for either Brown or Burke + 26
Jalen McDaniels + 40 for either Brown or Burke + 26
Jaxson Hayes + 47 for either Brown or Burke + 26
Olynk + 46 for Bertans + 26 (if Detroit bites, then why not? they have no one to pay for anyway and 20 spots is a big jump).
One of those guys on the bottom of your list is not like the others. Hayes is young and already contributing. I doubt you could get him for that price. Maybe Naz too.
(05-01-2022, 11:47 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly I would be willing to send THJ plus the pick for Graham plus Hayes. Graham is not a perfect fit due to lack of defense, but he is a quality volume shooter that can also distribute the ball. I'm ok giving up the pick in this case because we are getting a young player who can develop into a quality starter. We just shifted the timeline a couple of years so he can contribute right away.
Graham makes no sense, assuming the Mavs are able to keep Brunson. They already have 4-5 guys who would be ahead of him on the depth chart, and he's not special on either end of the court (even though he's paid more than MLE).
(05-01-2022, 02:20 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Graham makes no sense, assuming the Mavs are able to keep Brunson. They already have 4-5 guys who would be ahead of him on the depth chart, and he's not special on either end of the court (even though he's paid more than MLE).
Yeah he'd likely only get playtime if there were an injury or 2. Need to be realistic though, THJ + the 26th pick can only get so far. Ideally trading for a big only costs that or less, but whoever is sending over a player the Mavs want will probably tack on a bad contract. Multiteam deals can get pretty crazy tho so who knows.
(05-01-2022, 02:20 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Graham makes no sense, assuming the Mavs are able to keep Brunson. They already have 4-5 guys who would be ahead of him on the depth chart, and he's not special on either end of the court (even though he's paid more than MLE).
Who are all of these guys ahead of Graham on the depth chart? Bullock shoots a little higher percentage from the 3, but at a lower volume and graham is way better distributor. Graham is a significantly better offensive player and not sure if bullock defense makes up for it. Hardaway shoots similar volume at a better percentage, but Graham is a way better playmaker and they are similar defensively.
He is not a perfect fit, but probably better than THJ and cheaper and the whole point is to get Hayes.
(05-01-2022, 10:36 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Who are all of these guys ahead of Graham on the depth chart?
Graham is 6-1 - you think he's a C or something? His one position is PG and the Mavs have Luka, JB, SD, Burke, and Ntilikina already. He's not being discussed as a strong defender (bball ref ratings say he's bad), and his offense is simply putrid. He was the flavor of the month for some as a FA, where his track record was not so good but some thought he only needed a new team, so NO gave him a strong contract, and he has proven he's simply not that good. He is the small PG without a shot, which is an awful recipe for what you want in a PG.
More importantly, there's no place to insert him in the Mavs rotation. You have better options for PG and he doesn't have a skill to even be a specialist for you. He's already 27. He's undersized. On every level, it's not a guy who would help.
(04-30-2022, 11:56 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: [ -> ]Need to constantly be looking out for deals like this. They're always out there. I was saying to get Bullock for dirt cheap when he was done at Detroit. Also with KCP, Bobby Portis, etc. Usually some players out there that are great buy low candidates that will contribute to winning and I don't think they're really that difficult to spot. Someone like Collins is already established and has a clear place in the league. He had some strong suitors when he was in FA and he will have lots of suitors now if he's on the trade block. Really doubt there will be value in trying to outbid other teams there. Turner may even get stronger bidders than the THJ + 26 everyone is trying to throw out.
Sayin it again, imo Jaxson Hayes is a decent candidate to be like Jarrett Allen was back then. He should be a much better fit on this team. It may be possible to do a THJ based deal with NO. They were the team that was trying to get him this past offseason before he took a paycut to stay and from what they're saying, sounds like they could still use a volume 3pt shooter. They likely want to get off their Devonte Graham contract, so there's some options to get Hayes while still keeping the 26th pick. Although Graham is not someone the Mavs would want, he is cheaper than THJ. Maybe could do a multiteamer involving THJ (+some other expirings?) + 26 where they trade Hayes and shed Graham to someone else.
I like Hayes. I´d take him in a heartbeat, but with the return of Zion and Hayes stepping up, I think Valanciunas could be the odd man out. While he´s very pricey and a dinsosaur, for our team, he´s exactly the kind of C we need to play 20-25 match-up dependent minutes. Off the bench he can easily give us a 13/10 in 25 minutes dominating the back-ups on the interior.
If Brunson stays, I´d probably do THJ for Jonas. Contract until 2024 is not that long either.
(05-02-2022, 12:19 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Graham is 6-1 - you think he's a C or something? His one position is PG and the Mavs have Luka, JB, SD, Burke, and Ntilikina already. He's not being discussed as a strong defender (bball ref ratings say he's bad), and his offense is simply putrid. He was the flavor of the month for some as a FA, where his track record was not so good but some thought he only needed a new team, so NO gave him a strong contract, and he has proven he's simply not that good. He is the small PG without a shot, which is an awful recipe for what you want in a PG.
More importantly, there's no place to insert him in the Mavs rotation. You have better options for PG and he doesn't have a skill to even be a specialist for you. He's already 27. He's undersized. On every level, it's not a guy who would help.
His offense is significantly better than you are making it out to be. He had an off year this last season, but the prior two years he was hitting the 3 at better than league average with a high volume. On top of that his assist to TO ratio was roughly 3 to 1. That is a very valuable combination in a player.
His size is a concern, but I don't know why we are bringing up guys like Luka and Din, who are big enough for wings, and Burke and Frank who are not good enough to worry about. His fit with Brunson is a problem. Not sure how many minutes you want both of them on the court (Rick would have loved it).
The point is that you are taking on a contract somebody doesn't want to get a guy you do want (Hayes), and you are buying low on a guy. Even if he gets you nothing it might still be worth it to get Hayes.
(05-02-2022, 09:43 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]His offense is significantly better than you are making it out to be. He had an off year this last season, but the prior two years he was hitting the 3 at better than league average with a high volume. On top of that his assist to TO ratio was roughly 3 to 1. That is a very valuable combination in a player.
He might hit a 3 at an above average rate, but the issue is he literally cannot score anywhere else. He has a career average 37% from the field overall. He takes 12 shots a game! At that efficiency, no offense can work well.
His biggest detriment is his size. It totally nullifies him in the playoffs. He only played 10mpg this year, versus the 29 he was getting in the regular season. I also don't find it a coincidence that Charlotte got a lot better as soon as Graham left and let Roizer (and mainly Ball) get more opportunities.
(05-02-2022, 09:43 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]The point is that you are taking on a contract somebody doesn't want to get a guy you do want (Hayes), and you are buying low on a guy. Even if he gets you nothing it might still be worth it to get Hayes.
I don't see why Hayes is worth taking on a guy who literally won't work here. Hayes is fine. He's a good roller, but to invest 11 mil in dead money + whatever assets it takes to get him? Too rich for my blood.
If anything Larry Nance is probably just as available, would cost way cheaper in a trade, and we don't have to take on Graham for him.
(05-02-2022, 10:10 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]He might hit a 3 at an above average rate, but the issue is he literally cannot score anywhere else. He has a career average 37% from the field overall. He takes 12 shots a game! At that efficiency, no offense can work well.
His biggest detriment is his size. It totally nullifies him in the playoffs. He only played 10mpg this year, versus the 29 he was getting in the regular season. I also don't find it a coincidence that Charlotte got a lot better as soon as Graham left and let Roizer (and mainly Ball) get more opportunities.
I don't see why Hayes is worth taking on a guy who literally won't work here. Hayes is fine. He's a good roller, but to invest 11 mil in dead money + whatever assets it takes to get him? Too rich for my blood.
If anything Larry Nance is probably just as available, would cost way cheaper in a trade, and we don't have to take on Graham for him.
I don't see Nance as being more available. He was huge in their playin & playoff games. They definitely want to keep him. He has versatility to fit with whoever they're playing with including Zion. They need to keep their vets, they're out of time to continue developing Hayes and he is not going to want to stay there continuing to play in a situation that doesn't fit him. Their fans are looking to trade Hayes, not Nance.
Graham is horrendous from 2. He's got that early Kemba Walker like inefficiency on 2 pointers. Undersized and doesn't know how to finish over NBA bigs. I don't think he'll ever be anywhere near the level Brunson is at scoring inside. Probably look more like Josh Green did going against Gobert than Brunson. It'd be 11 mil of dead cap for sure. NO does have way too many picks now though, maybe a rebuilding team takes on Graham and some of those picks in a multiteam deal. I just threw together something quick with Portland. Mavs have a lot of expirings to help facilitate deals too. Surely Nico can come up with something.
![[Image: tradenba-snap-1651513712986.png]](https://i.ibb.co/jTCYSjz/tradenba-snap-1651513712986.png)
I think there's some underestimating how bad THJ's contract is. Things would change if he returns and hits 40% from 3 again, but right now he's coming off a down year with a season ending injury and still has 54/3 remaining. I'm not sure if THJ + 26 can even get you an unplayable expiring, much less a starting center. Some bad money will have to come back the Mavs' way in any deal like this.
I do like the Hayes idea if they are prepared to deal with the fact that he's a headcase. Can Kidd reign him in?
(05-02-2022, 01:20 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure if THJ + 26 can even get you an unplayable expiring, much less a starting center. Some bad money will have to come back the Mavs' way in any deal like this.
If that's the case, you simply keep him. I personally don't think that's the case, but bringing back THJ to this Mavs team is a perfectly fine "back-up" plan if what you think is the alternative.