(07-27-2021, 02:22 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]My feeling is that it's impossible, because Holmes wouldn't sign the deal, making the rest of it moot.
You really know how to make me feel good about my late night ramblings.
Probably for the best, I've sobered up after that post. Caffeine is a helluva drug.
(07-27-2021, 02:22 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]My feeling is that it's impossible, because Holmes wouldn't sign the deal, making the rest of it moot.
Sacramento can't sign him to a 1st year salary more than about 10.5M. With him looking for much more, than eliminates the ability for them to do the "sign" part of the sign-and-trade to another team.
I don´t know why SleepingHero made it a S&T. If the Mavs trade Porzingis for Barnes+Bagley (they are not taking Richardson), the Mavs can just sign Holmes outright with capspace. Okay assuming Hero wants to keep THJ, too.
(07-27-2021, 03:18 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Okay assuming Hero wants to keep THJ, too.
Bingo thats why I did that.
Did not realize that SAC was limited to resigning Holmes to a starting salary of 10.5M.
But if the trade was done separately where Sacto dealt more salary away than they took in the Barnes/Bagley portion the amount they can offer Holmes just went up...
So Barnes and Bagley make about 31ish so it takes 24 to create the first step in the trade - Maxi, Powell/Richardson, Burke, and Terry make 25 ish. The 6 million reduction in Sacto's payroll then opens Holmes up to more than 16 million for a starting salary. When it comes time for the second trade you get KP for Holmes (S&T) and Hield. That part should be pretty close to working without other pieces... Outside of then answering who covers the tip.
Now, from Sacto's perspective they are operating as an UtC team who then spent all their cap on Holmes to get spare parts from Dallas. I'd think they want a couple of picks a few years down the road.
(07-27-2021, 12:07 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Correct.
THJ Mavs salary reactions:
$14M or less - that's acceptable, as long as we get something else good in free agency. Welcome back, Hugsmeister!
$14.25M-$16.5M - Eh. They paid him as a starter, when he ain't if we want to make the second round.
$16.75M-$18M - Typical Mavs, bidding against themselves and unnecessarily clogging their cap. The Luka clock is officially ticking in the worst way possible.
$18.25 or more - Can we please have Donnie back? Even he wouldn't have been so abjectly stupid.
You can't look at THJ as the other teams competing for his services would. He cannot start for the Mavs, period. He's worth less to us than to those other teams. If he wants to give us a sweetheart deal, great; otherwise retaining him is dumbassed. Given that Norman Powell is better at defense and could thus start for us, it would be dumb not to pursue him over THJ.
He played better for us than he played ever before, he fits perfectly next to our franchise player, but he is less worth to us than to other teams?
You set yourself up to be disappointed.
I see us ending up with THJ+Dinwiddie and keeping WCS with the rMLE and that might do the trick.
(07-27-2021, 05:55 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]He played better for us than he played ever before, he fits perfectly next to our franchise player, but he is less worth to us than to other teams?
You set yourself up to be disappointed.
I see us ending up with THJ+Dinwiddie and keeping WCS with the rMLE and that might do the trick.
I like THJ, but he does not fit perfectly next to Luka. He is a below average defender, does not create for others, and does not create a lot for himself. Most of the guys being talked about improve on one or more of those issues (Kawhi, Conley, Lowry, Ball, Powell).
If we end up with THJ+Dinwiddle, then we would hopefully operate over the cap (JRich for Din) meaning we keep WCS and have the full MLE on top. Even then, I would consider that a significant failure of the offseason.
(07-27-2021, 05:55 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]He played better for us than he played ever before, he fits perfectly next to our franchise player, but he is less worth to us than to other teams?
You set yourself up to be disappointed.
I see us ending up with THJ+Dinwiddie and keeping WCS with the rMLE and that might do the trick.
...of us being worse this year than last year!!!!!111!!11!1!
Just 2 days until the draft, 6 until free agency.
(07-27-2021, 06:06 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/TheHoopCentral/statu...0167631885
Coming back to the SGA talk. If he is really on the market I would move heaven and earth to get him. No one not named Luka isn´t available. Probably not enough but you have to try.
If they're trying to get the #1 pick for him then there is no way in hell we have enough to offer. We have nothing outside of Luka that would even come close to #1 overall pick value. I understand wanting SGA though, he would be incredible with Luka
(07-27-2021, 06:33 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: [ -> ]If they're trying to get the #1 pick for him then there is no way in hell we have enough to offer. We have nothing outside of Luka that would even come close to #1 overall pick value. I understand wanting SGA though, he would be incredible with Luka
Sources tell me that OKC is desperate to get off SGA, because printing Gilgeous-Alexander on the back of all those jerseys is killing the bottom line plus the local media is on the verge of dropping Thunder coverage since they can’t possibly write stories that include him while still meeting their deadlines. Getting Cunningham is just a perk.
(07-27-2021, 06:33 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: [ -> ]If they're trying to get the #1 pick for him then there is no way in hell we have enough to offer. We have nothing outside of Luka that would even come close to #1 overall pick value. I understand wanting SGA though, he would be incredible with Luka
They are also including the 6th pick. If we go back to the Luka draft the Mavs had to give up a top 10 protected first to move up two spots (from 5 to 3). The year before the 76ers traded the 3rd pick and a future first to get the 1st pick.
Moving up costs about one first for two spots. Every draft is different but based on those numbers the estimated value of SGA would only be in the 2-3 first round picks range. If that´s the case I would happily offer all available firsts, Brunson and DFS/Kleber to get it done.
Hypothetically, let's assume Dallas adds Kyle Lowry in free agency. Dallas is rumored to be interested in Richaun Holmes. Would you trade KP for a sign and trade of Holmes and the contract of Buddy Hield?
Lowry
Hield
Luka
DFS
Holmes
Brunson
Terry
Green
Kleber
Powell
We still have the MLE to sign another player...maybe Markkanen? I think Dallas, unlike other years, will be extremely aggressive this offseason and get something substantially done.
I think potentially the sign-and-trade deal for Lowry could be J-Rich, Maxi, and WCS. That’s ~$24.5M outgoing, so Lowry can get his $30M per, and those are all essentially expiring contracts (Maxi’s final year is non-guaranteed). That would allow the Mavs to operate over the cap, re-sign Hardaway, and have the full MLE and BAE left to use.
Creating the cap space for both Lowry and THJ is definitely more difficult. Supposedly Boston has been tied to the JRich rumors in a salary dump trade. Then I think the likely other player to be dumped is Powell. I could see Orlando for Powell’s landing spot - Mosley supposedly loves him. I’m not too interested in what comes back in those trades, it just needs to be as little guaranteed salary as possible. Roughly, getting to around $45M in space would let you get close to $30M for Lowry and stay in the high teens of $M for THJ. Then you’ve only got the room MLE to finish things off (outside of trades - Brunson?).
(07-27-2021, 09:03 PM)Mavs03 Wrote: [ -> ]Hypothetically, let's assume Dallas adds Kyle Lowry in free agency. Dallas is rumored to be interested in Richaun Holmes. Would you trade KP for a sign and trade of Holmes and the contract of Buddy Hield?
Lowry
Hield
Luka
DFS
Holmes
Brunson
Terry
Green
Kleber
Powell
We still have the MLE to sign another player...maybe Markkanen? I think Dallas, unlike other years, will be extremely aggressive this offseason and get something substantially done.
Come on, guys, we've been over this over and over. The reason Holmes is available is that the Kings can't pay him more than a little more than $10 mil per. He isn't gettable at all via sign-and-trade.
(07-27-2021, 10:09 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I like THJ, but he does not fit perfectly next to Luka. He is a below average defender, does not create for others, and does not create a lot for himself. Most of the guys being talked about improve on one or more of those issues (Kawhi, Conley, Lowry, Ball, Powell).
If we end up with THJ+Dinwiddle, then we would hopefully operate over the cap (JRich for Din) meaning we keep WCS and have the full MLE on top. Even then, I would consider that a significant failure of the offseason.
That's like saying a horse is no perfect fit to ride, because it can't fly also.
Luka needs a shooting guard ready to shot. That's what THJ is.
And left with is defender he is able to get his shot off. That's not the same like create for himself but is a very important skill next to Luka, who might tend to overdribble sometimes and then need a fast emergency valve.
I won't argue about the defense, we know he is no plus there over the long time, but he can be in sparks.
But getting someone with his needed offense and being a plus defender is just not possible.
So perfect fit next to Luka and someone like Lowry or Conley.
(07-27-2021, 10:57 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]That's like saying a horse is no perfect fit to ride, because it can't fly also.
Luka needs a shooting guard ready to shot. That's what THJ is.
And left with is defender he is able to get his shot off. That's not the same like create for himself but is a very important skill next to Luka, who might tend to overdribble sometimes and then need a fast emergency valve.
I won't argue about the defense, we know he is no plus there over the long time, but he can be in sparks.
But getting someone with his needed offense and being a plus defender is just not possible.
So perfect fit next to Luka and someone like Lowry or Conley.
But the thing is there are guys out there that provide THJ offense with more to offer like Fournier (playmaking), Powell (defense), Ball (playmaking and defense) that may be only a few million more a year. If we get Lowry and can only fit THJ in cap (and I don't think we have the cap for that without other moves) or we can S&T Lowry (not sure Toronto will be interested) then he makes some sense.
In a world where we are not getting Lowry or doing any S&T, its hard to justify spending what it will take to get THJ when we can spend a few more to get better fits (unless of course we can't get those guys here, which is entirely possible).
(07-27-2021, 09:42 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: [ -> ]I think potentially the sign-and-trade deal for Lowry could be J-Rich, Maxi, and WCS. That’s ~$24.5M outgoing, so Lowry can get his $30M per, and those are all essentially expiring contracts (Maxi’s final year is non-guaranteed).
Why don´t we add Powell and Burke, too.
(07-27-2021, 11:37 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Why don´t we add Powell and Burke, too.
Not expiring. Maybe Orlando would be interested? Mosley loves Powell and Burke only plays well in Orlando.
(07-27-2021, 11:20 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]But the thing is there are guys out there that provide THJ offense with more to offer like Fournier (playmaking), Powell (defense), Ball (playmaking and defense) that may be only a few million more a year. If we get Lowry and can only fit THJ in cap (and I don't think we have the cap for that without other moves) or we can S&T Lowry (not sure Toronto will be interested) then he makes some sense.
In a world where we are not getting Lowry or doing any S&T, its hard to justify spending what it will take to get THJ when we can spend a few more to get better fits (unless of course we can't get those guys here, which is entirely possible).
I know the grass is always greener ... I really don´t see it that way. THJ has that ultrafast release that only Powell would provide - and I don´t see him come for anything we can offer. Also he played with Dame (and McColloum) and they failed bigtime together.