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yes, Turner is great (on paper).. just a little reminder.. in the last 3 years he has lost as many games as KP, he does not stand out as a roll man (or putting screens) he is not a great rebounder and in 1 open year to offer him a great contract

(05-17-2022, 12:57 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]In my mind a true Kleber is not really about wingspan, its a big 3&D wing that can protect the rim and rebound.  To me, Covington is the ideal Maxi clone (or really, Maxi is a Covington clone).  It's a shame we couldn't/didn't get him in Portland fire sale.  A pick two frontcourt of DFS/Covington/Maxi would have been awesome.

I think the closest thing to a Maxi starter kit would be PJ Washington, who I believe is on the block and might be had for our pick.

PJ Washington is interesting, but can he really play starting center? I don't think he's ever played there for Charlotte, at least not a significant amount.

(05-16-2022, 08:47 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]I´m more interested in Jalen Smith anyway, and an Ayton acquisition would increase the likelihood of Smith leaving. We can offer him two things nobody else can: compete for the starting C spot on a legit play-off contender and a chance to play with the walking ATM Luka Doncic.

That's an interesting name.  Indy is limited in what it can offer Smith as a UFA.  They can only pay him $4.5mm.  So, we can outbid that using the TP-MLE.  But that is our limit, so others fan outbid us if someone feels his 22 game stint in Indy (13/7 on .531 FG% and .373% from 3) is enough of a sample size to hand out over $27 million on.  18 of his 22 games were double digit scoring games.  He was a -2.6 on/court and a +1.7 On Minus Off for a team that lost 16 of those 22 games.  Indy was 5.5 points better offensively when he was on the court and 3.4 points worse defensively.

However, there will be other bidders.  His combination of points, rebounds and 3% were only matched by KAT, Portis and Christian Wood over the course of the full season last season.

Another important aspect that is rarely mentioned. Will the current playoff run change the Mavs position on the free agent market. Turn the team into a destination for ring chasers?

(05-17-2022, 06:05 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Another important aspect that is rarely mentioned. Will the current playoff run change the Mavs position on the free agent market. Turn the team into a destination for ring chasers?

Not sure, but it's only a matter of time. 

To me, it couldn't be more clear that Luka is, at some point, going to be a much bigger draw for that type of thing than Dirk ever was.

(05-17-2022, 06:47 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure, but it's only a matter of time. 

To me, it couldn't be more clear that Luka is, at some point, going to be a much bigger draw for that type of thing than Dirk ever was.

This depends on what do we want as a ringchaser kind of player.
-Deep depth pieces, who are fine to play a emergency role.
-Productive players coming for less than market price.
-Overaged Stars looking for a last payday with a ring on top?

(05-17-2022, 06:53 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]This depends on what do we want as a ringchaser kind of player.
-Deep depth pieces, who are fine to play a emergency role.
-Productive players coming for less than market price.
-Overaged Stars looking for a last payday with a ring on top?

Carmelo, Rondo.  Maybe Dirk come back for another ring?

(05-16-2022, 01:54 PM)BoulderMFFL Wrote: [ -> ]Derrick Favors fits into our trade exception.  What do you guys think about:

Does he have anything left in his tank?
Would he be a good fit and would he significantly improve our C position?
Sam Presti would require an asset or two in return. What would it take to get him?

I have long favored Favors as a fit under Carlisle. Not sure how well he would work for Kidd. The bigger issue is what would it take for Presti to move him? I don't know that I would do more than 2-3 2nd rd picks unless we could consolidate some considerable salary back to OKC.

(05-17-2022, 06:05 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Another important aspect that is rarely mentioned. Will the current playoff run change the Mavs position on the free agent market. Turn the team into a destination for ring chasers?

I was thinking about this last night in combination with the fact that we always say: If two of Brunson, THJ, Dinwiddie, DFS, Kleber, Bullock can step up we have a shot in this game and this series.

These play-offs must lead the Mavs and players like Lavine or Beal to the same conclusion: if we give Luka a guaranteed 25+ points scorer that does it every game, who is going to stop us?

We need one legit center for our rotation (free agency), one more wing defender (draft), and then we need that 2nd All-Star (trade) and then.....

(05-17-2022, 03:34 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]PJ Washington is interesting, but can he really play starting center? I don't think he's ever played there for Charlotte, at least not a significant amount.

Washington played 88% of his minutes as small ball five his rookie year. He has added to his game and now roughly splits his time 50% forward and 50% center. He's an energy defender. Not a lockdown guy but can defend 1-5 in a team concept. He's a quick decision maker on offense. He'll catch and shoot or attack the closeout. You have to respect his jumper. Personally, I'd much rather add PJ Washington than Myles Turner.

(05-17-2022, 03:59 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]That's an interesting name.  Indy is limited in what it can offer Smith as a UFA.  They can only pay him $4.5mm.  So, we can outbid that using the TP-MLE.  But that is our limit, so others fan outbid us if someone feels his 22 game stint in Indy (13/7 on .531 FG% and .373% from 3) is enough of a sample size to hand out over $27 million on.  18 of his 22 games were double digit scoring games.  He was a -2.6 on/court and a +1.7 On Minus Off for a team that lost 16 of those 22 games.  Indy was 5.5 points better offensively when he was on the court and 3.4 points worse defensively.

However, there will be other bidders.  His combination of points, rebounds and 3% were only matched by KAT, Portis and Christian Wood over the course of the full season last season.

Is a Sign-and-Trade possible for Jalen Smith?
DP + Green?
Although I wouldn't like to lose DP. He could help in the regular season.
As for Green, I'm a fan of Green, but Smith is more a position of need.

Another skinny big that can hit the 3 is Chris Boucher (although he has been awful at this recently), he might be cheap. Although the Raps might just keep him if it's just TP-MLE they need to match with.

(05-17-2022, 08:23 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]Is a Sign-and-Trade possible for Jalen Smith?
DP + Green?
Although I wouldn't like to lose DP. He could help in the regular season.
As for Green, I'm a fan of Green, but Smith is more a position of need.

Another skinny big that can hit the 3 is Chris Boucher (although he has been awful at this recently), he might be cheap. Although the Raps might just keep him if it's just TP-MLE they need to match with.

As folks have mentioned here before, we very likely will not be able to S&T a player in, especially if we sign Brunson.

Boucher is an interesting tax MLE target.  If we are going that route, Hartenstein, Boucher and Smith are some good options.  There may be others.  The kicker is that the draft happens before we know if we can land any of these guys.  Not sure what the odds are on that.

I lean towards sending the pick for Washington if that gets it done.  There may be some other options with the pick that you need to pull the trigger on.  If that does not play out, then the hope would be that you can get one of the dudes above with the tax MLE.

(05-17-2022, 08:23 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]Is a Sign-and-Trade possible for Jalen Smith?

Dallas doesn’t have any ability to do any S&T unless they are under the apron.  Plus, he’s free and his current team is limited in what it can pay.  So, no need anyway.  The questions are:  1. Do we believe his small sample size is real.  2. Is he a better fit than some of the vet names that get discussed (Crowder, Tucker, Batum, T. Young et al).  3. Will we get a seat at the table or will someone who isn’t limited to the TP-MLE going to pay more.  

The articles I’ve read (mostly Indy biased) think he’ll get more than the $4.5mm-ish they can offer in year one, but they think it will be close.  The advantage Indy has is they will have EB rights after one year.  So, they could do a one year or 1+1 if Smith wants to bet on himself.  Dallas would need 2 years to get to EB (then we’d be the ones limited in what we can pay if he actually hits).

(05-17-2022, 08:59 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Boucher is an interesting tax MLE target.  If we are going that route, Hartenstein, Boucher and Smith are some good options. 

I lean towards sending the pick for Washington if that gets it done.  There may be some other options with the pick that you need to pull the trigger on.  If that does not play out, then the hope would be that you can get one of the dudes above with the tax MLE.

I’ve started a longer post on roster construction and how things might play out when THJ becomes available again.  I just haven’t had time to finish it.  The conclusion is P. J. Is probably closer to what we want than Capella or even Turner.  We have all sorts of guys who can reasonably play minutes 1-3.  We have two guys who have shown minutes-worthiness in the playoffs at the 4 and 5.  I think it was 1998 who first pointed out that Powell’s impressive regular season stats wouldn’t hold up in the playoffs.  I obviously like Powell, but have always said he’s best as a backup.  Bertan’s is a specialty player.  Even if you fully count all four as solid members of the depth chart, we need one more and need that one more to be a playoff rotation guy.

So, we could really use what I termed “another Maxi”.  Washington doesn’t have the size, but when you look at someone who blocks shots, hits 3’s and has good defensive ratings, he’s about a close as you can get.

Charlotte is trying to contend and already has 3 picks in this draft.  The reason they might deal him is they don’t want to pay him when they have other mouths to feed.  I’m not sure what gets him here.  Josh and our 22 first might not do it.  If I were them I’d ask for the Dallas 2025 plus Josh and Chriss, or I’d ask for Bullock.  They have some offensive firepower already.  What they need is better D.

(05-17-2022, 09:27 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I’ve started a longer post on roster construction and how things might play out when THJ becomes available again.  I just haven’t had time to finish it.  The conclusion is P. J. Is probably closer to what we want than Capella or even Turner.  We have all sorts of guys who can reasonably play minutes 1-3.  We have two guys who have shown minutes-worthiness in the playoffs at the 4 and 5.  I think it was 1998 who first pointed out that Powell’s impressive regular season stats wouldn’t hold up in the playoffs.  I obviously like Powell, but have always said he’s best as a backup.  Bertan’s is a specialty player.  Even if you fully count all four as solid members of the depth chart, we need one more and need that one more to be a playoff rotation guy.

So, we could really use what I termed “another Maxi”.  Washington doesn’t have the size, but when you look at someone who blocks shots, hits 3’s and has good defensive ratings, he’s about a close as you can get.

Charlotte is trying to contend and already has 3 picks in this draft.  The reason they might deal him is they don’t want to pay him when they have other mouths to feed.  I’m not sure what gets him here.  Josh and our 22 first might not do it.  If I were them I’d ask for the Dallas 2025 plus Josh and Chriss, or I’d ask for Bullock.  They have some offensive firepower already.  What they need is better D.

I will be curious to read that post.

Who is 1998?  Is that 2021?

I'm not sending out the 2025.  That really hurts our ability to make the big play later down the line if necessary.  Josh and the 2022 would be a tough decision.  Depends on how they evaluate Josh.  Sending out Bullock would require a lot of truest in Green/Frank development, or a lot of trust in THJ being able to fit in defensively.  I didn't realize they already have 3 picks.  That makes this trade less likely to happen in general unless its Bullock.

(05-17-2022, 10:16 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Josh and the 2022 would be a tough decision.

I would do this but that's also because I wouldn't mind Frank taking a larger role on this team next season.

To the point about them having a bunch of picks already, they could always package a bunch of those now and redirect them for a player.

I'm definitely out on sending Bullock in this scenario.

(05-17-2022, 09:27 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]We have two guys who have shown minutes-worthiness in the playoffs at the 4 and 5.

What I love about the Mavs style is it has evolved to two guards, two wings and a single big. There's not much difference between the small forward and power forward. I don't know if the "wing" terminology is correct but in my simple mind I think of small forward-power forward as old-school and wing as modern. 

Luka, Brunson and Dinwiddie are guards.

DFS, Bullock are wings. THJ is a wing. Green and Ntilikina are probably developing wings who can guard the point-of-attack.

What's special about Maxi is he does the same thing for the 4-5 "power forward-center" role. He's a switchable big who can guard the perimeter, block shots and shoot threes. Seems like someone should coin a new name for this type of player. Something better than "beefy long wing" ...  Spaceball Center?

(05-17-2022, 09:07 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Dallas doesn’t have any ability to do any S&T unless they are under the apron.  Plus, he’s free and his current team is limited in what it can pay.  So, no need anyway.  The questions are:  1. Do we believe his small sample size is real.  2. Is he a better fit than some of the vet names that get discussed (Crowder, Tucker, Batum, T. Young et al).  3. Will we get a seat at the table or will someone who isn’t limited to the TP-MLE going to pay more.  

The articles I’ve read (mostly Indy biased) think he’ll get more than the $4.5mm-ish they can offer in year one, but they think it will be close.  The advantage Indy has is they will have EB rights after one year.  So, they could do a one year or 1+1 if Smith wants to bet on himself.  Dallas would need 2 years to get to EB (then we’d be the ones limited in what we can pay if he actually hits).

Funny enough, historically these are the guys that will fall the most in the draft and therefore even be available at #26. They are build like tanks. Considered undersized for PF/C, considered too slow for SG/SF. Basically they are all Draymond Greens or Luka Doncics. The prototype modern day small ball player, but it obviously hasn´t caught on yet in the draft.

There are a few in this draft that fit the profile and will likely be available to the Mavs at #26.

My personal top choice: EJ Liddell 6´7 240 pounds, no idea about his wingspan

could be the small ball PF/C we are looking for to compliment Kleber/Powell and he´ll fall, because he is older, too. Averages 20/8/3 with almost 3 BPGs. Improved his 3pt percentage to 37.4% in his third year, but we have a small sample size Justin Anderson alert. I don´t like the shooting mechanics much, but we are planning with him as a versatile defensive PF/C, while we needed Justin Anderson to be a SG/SF. If his 3pt shooting translates, you got a steal.

Marjon Beauchamp 6´6 200 pounds, 7´0 wingspan

he´d be more a SG/SF, can´t get a feel for his overall  handles. Sometimes it looks like he has no left hand, but then he succesfully drives left, even finishing with the right hand. Probably cause he´s fast and super athletic, which is something we kind of lack. Questions is do we want it/need it? Historically our success seems to come from picking the ready made crafty guys that are simply good at the core basketball skills already, rather than pick guys with big flaws that we (try to) correct.

Wendell Moore 6´5 213 pounds, no idea about wingspan

looks a lot like the Hulk version of Jalen Brunson, maybe Desmond Bane.  Also older and also doesn´t seem very vertical or fast.

Massive statisticial jump in college 3rd year. Shooting 41.3% --> 50%, 30.1% --> 41.3% 3pt (think his shot mechanics look steady, as long as he´s open, but that´s why we have Luka)

I´d go Liddell or Moore. Josh Green could still develop into a Beauchamp type and Beauchamp has the highest bust potential.

It would be a heck of a sales job, but if you thought Jalen Smith was Christian Wood 2.0 then you could pitch him that Luka could be an absolute rainmaker for him.  No clue what his market will be, but you can beat the Pacers with the TP MLE and if that got it done I think it would absolutely be a risk worth taking.

PJ Washington is a favorite of mine as well when looking at players with position flex and potential 5 out candidates.  Again, no clue what his market would look like but would love for the Mavs to find a way to bring him in.

Hayes in NO is another guy worth looking at.

Would love to see the Mavs manage to bring any of those three in and add some more youth that fits Kidd's scheme.

I just happened to watch some Wendell Moore highlights and he looks the part to me. Strong, decisive, plays with some edge. Plays physical defense! Maybe not great at any one thing, but not bad at anything either. Not a huge upside but could maybe be a Josh Hart glue-guy type for us. I know we have a lot of wings but, as always, BPA all the way!

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I like all three of those guys you mentioned too MaxiThreeba. I don’t want to give Green in any deal though. Still super high on the guy.