Building from Kemba idea from another thread and my big wish for Grant. This is an all-in move I would be working on.
Dal: Grant, Kemba, Robinson
NY: Powell, Brunson
Det: Bullock, Green, 2023 unprotected (Dallas pick from NY), 2027 top 10 protected or so
NY gets their PG for the future next to Randle and Barret. Detroit cashes in on Grant with two picks and young prospect. Dallas gets the big wing and secondary facilitator they need and replace back up PG, who will be in lesser role than Brunson.
2021/22 Mavs become:
Luka, Kemba
THJ, Burke
Grant, DFS
Robinson, Maxi
KP, WCS
You basically play Luka and Kemba at PG. THJ, Grant and DFS are main wing rotation with Kemba perhaps some minutes at SG next to Luka. Robinson, KP and Maxi is your big rotation. DFS guards best 1-3, Grant best 3-4.
In 2022 Mavs have 2022 and 2025 FRP to trade for a final piece, probably with KP or THJ contract as salary match.
(11-30-2021, 01:15 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I can see the dislike for the KP move (especially in hindsight) but on the other hand, when you have an organization that has a terrible history in free agency and a generally poor history in developing through the draft, its hard not to pull the trigger on a potential star for 2 firsts and salary dump, even with a few red flags. The real problem is that Cuban does not understand his strengths and weaknesses. Instead of hoarding cap space that he has never been able to use effectively, he should have been accumulating assets for trades, which he sometimes gets right. I'm more disappointed in the last three years of failure than the KP trade.
I think most fans were excited about the KP trade (I was) because there was still a lot of potential. I don't even want to kill the MBT for making the move (hindsight and all) but I do think a more disciplined franchise wouldn't have done that move. KP was expensive, hurt, and due for a max contract sight unseen. We also threw in DSJ to go along with the salary dumps of Lee, THJ and Burke. Hindsight can make you overlook DSJ (young, recent lottery pick) or make you forget how terrible that THJ contract was. Maybe that move is more okay if you hadn't have had to spend an additional first to move up and get Luka. It's just a typical Cuban shortcut move because he hates taking. That's admirable in some regards but will hurt the long term success of the team.
And yeah, we are bad at drafting and using our free agent money but I don't think we can handwave that away. This franchise needs to get much better at that. I don't think you can build a successful team by only being good at trades (which we really aren't anymore).
(11-30-2021, 07:22 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Building from Kemba idea from another thread and my big wish for Grant. This is an all-in move I would be working on.
Dal: Grant, Kemba, Robinson
NY: Powell, Brunson
Det: Bullock, Green, 2023 unprotected (Dallas pick from NY), 2027 top 10 protected or so
NY gets their PG for the future next to Randle and Barret. Detroit cashes in on Grant with two picks and young prospect. Dallas gets the big wing and secondary facilitator they need and replace back up PG, who will be in lesser role than Brunson.
2021/22 Mavs become:
Luka, Kemba
THJ, Burke
Grant, DFS
Robinson, Maxi
KP, WCS
You basically play Luka and Kemba at PG. THJ, Grant and DFS are main wing rotation with Kemba perhaps some minutes at SG next to Luka. Robinson, KP and Maxi is your big rotation. DFS guards best 1-3, Grant best 3-4.
In 2022 Mavs have 2022 and 2025 FRP to trade for a final piece, probably with KP or THJ contract as salary match.
Can we stop trying to trade for Kemba in these threads? He is done. He's awful at everything but shooting these days. His knees are toast. There's a reason the Knicks prefer to start Alec Burks who isn't even a point guard over him. It's not like Kemba was just benched, he was removed from the rotation entirely. That's a horrible sign, he's done.
(11-30-2021, 10:15 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: [ -> ]Can we stop trying to trade for Kemba in these threads?
No one advocating for a Kemba trade thinks they are getting the Kemba of old or a useful rotation piece. His situation and contract are just being used to facilitate other goals.
(11-30-2021, 10:20 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]No one advocating for a Kemba trade thinks they are getting the Kemba of old or a useful rotation piece. His situation and contract are just being used to facilitate other goals.
The post I quoted is definitely advocating using him as a rotation piece. I really don't think Bullock's 5.4 million guaranteed in year 3 is that much of an albatross anyway. Maybe if he was guaranteed a full 4 years. His contract is solid if he can get back to anywhere near where he was before he came here. As bad as he's been, if you decided you really want to give up on him already, then I guarantee you could convince another team that this year is an outlier and get some value back.
Plus the difference between his and Kemba's contract is like 1 million per year this year and next and then the 5.4 mil in year 3. That's basically nothing. Definitely not something that's going to kick start a rebuild.
(11-30-2021, 10:32 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: [ -> ]The post I quoted is definitely advocating using him as a rotation piece. I really don't think Bullock's 5.4 million guaranteed in year 3 is that much of an albatross anyway. Maybe if he was guaranteed a full 4 years. His contract is solid if he can get back to anywhere near where he was before he came here. As bad as he's been, if you decided you really want to give up on him already, then I guarantee you could convince another team that this year is an outlier and get some value back.
Plus the difference between his and Kemba's contract is like 1 million per year this year and next and then the 5.4 mil in year 3. That's basically nothing. Definitely not something that's going to kick start a rebuild.
Think chess instead of checkers. You need big and small moves for a rebuild. Knicks are going to try to move Kemba to keep him and his agent happy. His value is negative because Thibs yanked him from the rotation. We have a salary matching piece that we know works will in New York's system and thus far has been a disappointment, especially considering the bloated contact we gave him. But we have the advantage that we haven't yanked Bullock from the rotation. So tell NY if they want that swap, to sweeten the pot. We've worked with New York in the past and if the rumors are true, the KP trade happened because the Mavs inquired about THJ. KP was a happy accident in that regard. What if it worked out like:
-Knicks offer Kemba for Bullock.
-Mavs counter with Kemba + owed '23 FRP for Bullock.
-Knicks counter with Kemba + owed '23 FRP for Bullock + Brunson
-Mavs counter with Kemba + Robinson + owed '23 FRP for Bullock + Brunson
-Knicks say Robinson is off the table but would love Brunson.
-Mavs counter with Kemba + owed '23FRP for Powell + Brunson.
Or it could play out a dozen other ways. And speaking of making Kemba's agent happy, Mavs are one of the few contending teams that could offer him minutes if he still has anything in the tank. He certainly may be completely washed but he would have a legitimate opportunity to contribute.
(11-30-2021, 10:15 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: [ -> ]Can we stop trying to trade for Kemba in these threads?
Do you really think that in a move where Mavs get Grant, Robinson and Kemba, he is the prize of the move? You think Powell, Brunson and Bullock are better than Grant, Robinson and Kemba?
The time to get a good trade for Brunson has come and gone. At this point, an in season trade would just be a rental for the receiving team, and the return would be commensurate. As a sign and trade piece, his next salary may be higher than some can stomach, but it won’t be high enough to really require a sign and trade, and if there is one, it would just be some minor considerations reflecting the Mavs lack of leverage in the situation.
The choice with JB just comes down to resign him or lose him for next to nothing.
(12-01-2021, 07:59 AM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: [ -> ]The time to get a good trade for Brunson has come and gone. At this point, an in season trade would just be a rental for the receiving team, and the return would be commensurate. As a sign and trade piece, his next salary may be higher than some can stomach, but it won’t be high enough to really require a sign and trade, and if there is one, it would just be some minor considerations reflecting the Mavs lack of leverage in the situation.
The choice with JB just comes down to resign him or lose him for next to nothing.
I agree. But let us dream
I watched the Golden St. game last night vs. Phoenix and I cannot help but wonder why Josh Green cannot be used in a role similar to how they use Gary Payton Jr. They do not ask him to shoot a ton of threes. His only task is to pick up a guy full court and to play pressure defense.
In the small summary size of what I have seen of Josh Green, he can do much of what Payton does when given the chance.
Am I off base for thinking that?
(12-01-2021, 11:07 AM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]I watched the Golden St. game last night vs. Phoenix and I cannot help but wonder why Josh Green cannot be used in a role similar to how they use Gary Payton Jr. They do not ask him to shoot a ton of threes. His only task is to pick up a guy full court and to play pressure defense.
In the small summary size of what I have seen of Josh Green, he can do much of what Payton does when given the chance.
Am I off base for thinking that?
Dito.
For Kidd, who suppose to have a defensive mindset its very surprising. His on/off stands at +35.4, he kinda did his part in slowing down the Spurs with Frank and than he was never seen again. Its not like the team couldn't stop a chair in the last 2 games. Frank is still out. He had 1 bad fadeaway jumpshot while the team had a 10-0 run or something like that vs. the Spurs.
He played 47 min, and the offense was still killing it. I know on/off, small sample size and bla bla. But thats all there is. Mavs have an insane 86.6 DefRtg in those 47 minutes with him on the floor. Frank / him is a totally devasting defensive duo from the bench. Feels like the duo alone can turn some defense into offense. and run more than the starters. Play quicker than the starters. Get points in transition.
If Brunson is back to being 100 % healthy, i am not sure why he and Frank can get minutes together from the bench. Those bench lineups were the best performing lineups so far this season.
I also watched the game but I came away thinking Jordan Poole might be the second best player on the Mavs.
(12-01-2021, 11:41 AM)sefant Wrote: [ -> ]he and Frank
FN and JG are easily the best point of attack defenders on the team. If neither are getting minutes the defense really seems to break down a lot quicker and plays much worse.
(12-01-2021, 07:59 AM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: [ -> ]The time to get a good trade for Brunson has come and gone. At this point, an in season trade would just be a rental for the receiving team, and the return would be commensurate. As a sign and trade piece, his next salary may be higher than some can stomach, but it won’t be high enough to really require a sign and trade, and if there is one, it would just be some minor considerations reflecting the Mavs lack of leverage in the situation.
The choice with JB just comes down to resign him or lose him for next to nothing.
I think at this point NYK would pay a pretty decent price for him. They need him and were said to be after him anyway. Our 2023 pick back is already a great starting point.
(12-01-2021, 12:21 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I think at this point NYK would pay a pretty decent price for him. They need him and were said to be after him anyway. Our 2023 pick back is already a great starting point.
If they know what to do with it. Otherwise its better to keep Brunson
(12-01-2021, 12:47 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]If they know what to do with it. Otherwise its better to keep Brunson
I'll just say this, IF we know for a fact that JB will stay this offseason, I don't want to trade him. If there is any inkling that he will request to be in the starting lineup and "run the team", I want to trade him. I don't mind him in the starting lineup with the team as currently constructed, I believe there
should be a construction of the team that has him and THJ coming off the bench or off the team due to defensive limitations.
(11-30-2021, 07:22 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Building from Kemba idea from another thread and my big wish for Grant. This is an all-in move I would be working on.
Dal: Grant, Kemba, Robinson
NY: Powell, Brunson
Det: Bullock, Green, 2023 unprotected (Dallas pick from NY), 2027 top 10 protected or so
NY gets their PG for the future next to Randle and Barret. Detroit cashes in on Grant with two picks and young prospect. Dallas gets the big wing and secondary facilitator they need and replace back up PG, who will be in lesser role than Brunson.
2021/22 Mavs become:
Luka, Kemba
THJ, Burke
Grant, DFS
Robinson, Maxi
KP, WCS
You basically play Luka and Kemba at PG. THJ, Grant and DFS are main wing rotation with Kemba perhaps some minutes at SG next to Luka. Robinson, KP and Maxi is your big rotation. DFS guards best 1-3, Grant best 3-4.
In 2022 Mavs have 2022 and 2025 FRP to trade for a final piece, probably with KP or THJ contract as salary match.
I like this idea but if I'm Detroit I'm not waiting around until 2027, if the protections are removed they can ask for the 2025 pick.
Also, I'm officially anti-protections from here on out. It's the most understated handcuff in the league when it comes to roster management.
Ntilikina and Josh Green need minutes and that decision may come sooner than later for Kidd if this season keeps heading in the wrong direction. It's predictable for a new coach to prefer his trusted veterans but if Bullock and Brown are not producing, you have to move on. What you see is what you get with those players - limited upside. With FN and Green, they might not be any better but at least there is still the potential of any upside.
The knock on Green is he doesn't have much of an outside shot, so scoring takes a hit. But I think the consensus, based on limited minutes, is that he does provide a lot of defensive energy.
With Bullock and Brown not packing their shooting skills when the reported to DAL, maybe using Green and/or Frank as a disruptor would help get things going.
I'm willing to take a look at almost anything that stirs the pot right now.
I know it won't happen ... unless Luka gets hurt ... but I really think we need a tank season ... to see how the Warriors are revitalized, without Klay and they have all the powder to get an Allstart or develop high youth potential... The future doesn't look bright for us - bad contracts (Powell / THJ), prospects with no minutes, no value picks, and our superstar with conditioning issues. And Luka starts his super max next year ... it sounds like a recipe for mediocrity ... Send Jalen for our selection23 and tanking for a selection of the top 10 (seating Luka and only worrying about improving his conditioning for his next year) Play Green / Frank and even Moses as much as possible ... would put us in a totally different position next summer ... we already have the perfect coach for the tank, the first step we have taken ... I would prefer to see a clear direction, even if we shoot this year ...