(03-08-2022, 10:30 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]Article from yesterday
https://www.si.com/nba/hornets/.amp/news...difference
His effort tonight defensively, his energy and activity. He is so athletic and bouncy and he had some huge blocked shots, his attention at the rim. He is winning at the rim and for us to take the next step defensively – since Christmas we are ranked eighth in defense and PJ is a big reason why.”
“Love P," LaMelo Ball said. "He can shoot the rock and also, I feel like he can guard 1 through 5, so it’s definitely a big help. He’s always in the lane, big, gets rebounds and like I said, he can shoot. I feel like he can do it all.”
I agree with what was said about that game, and that he is a solid defender, but not what you are inferring. He DID have 2 blocks in that game against SA... the only 2 in the last 4 games. Averaged .8 for the last month. He is a little better at the rim than DFS. (and less on the perimeter, I would say.) Overall, they are very similar players - about the closest comparisons to each other in the league that I can think of, including the same height. Both undersized PF's. But I don't really want them playing C for us too much.
(03-08-2022, 10:48 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with what was said about that game, and that he is a solid defender, but not what you are inferring. He DID have 2 blocks in that game against SA... the only 2 in the last 4 games. Averaged .8 for the last month. He is a little better at the rim than DFS. (and less on the perimeter, I would say.) Overall, they are very similar players - about the closest comparisons to each other in the league that I can think of, including the same height. Both undersized PF's. But I don't really want them playing C for us too much.
I didn’t say anything about a center. Winter asked who might check both boxes of defending the rim and wings. Those players are extremely rare. I simply suggest that Washington might be one of those players “question mark”
I can make stats say almost anything also…
Last 8 games: 10 blocks
Last 7 games: 6.4 rebounds
Last 6 games: 13 PPG
Last 5 games: +49
That’s not my point though. And I honestly don’t know if he fits the mold Winter was asking about, hence the question mark. I added the article because the Coach seems to think he checks those boxes.
(03-08-2022, 10:58 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]I didn’t say anything about a center. Winter asked who might check both boxes of defending the rim and wings. Those players are extremely rare. I simply suggest that Washington might be one of those players “question mark”
I can make stats say almost anything also…
Last 8 games: 10 blocks
Last 7 games: 6.4 rebounds
Last 6 games: 13 PPG
Last 5 games: +49
That’s not my point though. And I honestly don’t know if he fits the mold Winter was asking about, hence the question mark. I added the article because the Coach seems to think he checks those boxes.
Yeah... not exactly, but ok. I got my lines crossed on Winter's comments. I guess I am commenting on his OTHER post where he was talking about Holmes/Collins and a PF/C player. Either way, PJ is a solid player, but too small to be considered a rim protector in the sense that the Mavs need, imo. But certainly a guy to watch if he comes available as another long wing that can work in at the 4 - like DFS. Positionless basketball and all.
(03-08-2022, 11:20 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah... not exactly, but ok. I got my lines crossed on Winter's comments. I guess I am commenting on his OTHER post where he was talking about Holmes/Collins and a PF/C player. Either way, PJ is a solid player, but too small to be considered a rim protector in the sense that the Mavs need, imo. But certainly a guy to watch if he comes available as another long wing that can work in at the 4 - like DFS. Positionless basketball and all.
I also found it interesting that PJ has very similar blocks per game and block % as Maxi for their careers. I don’t consider Maxi a “rim protecter” in the tradition sense but would take another Maxi…
6’7” PJ: 1.0 BLK / 3.3 BLK%
6’10” Maxi: 0.9 BLK / 3.6 BLK%
(03-07-2022, 04:23 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Raise your hand if you don’t want to trade THJ for the perfect fitting starting C on this team. No one? Anyone here. 3, 2, 1 go! Still?
Ok, now that there were no hands raised. Name your trade! Name names that you believe THJ is worth, would be available and the other team agrees with your assessment.
THJ for Nerlens and Kemba. Nerlens provides rebounding and some rim protection. Kemba probably provides nothing. But who knows.
Edit: That’s what he’s worth imho. Not a move I would get very excited about. Rather see us flip the 1st and TPE into something.
(03-08-2022, 11:30 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]I also found it interesting that PJ has very similar blocks per game and block % as Maxi for their careers. I don’t consider Maxi a “rim protecter” in the tradition sense but would take another Maxi…
6’7” PJ: 1.0 BLK / 3.3 BLK%
6’10” Maxi: 0.9 BLK / 3.6 BLK%
Ok, now that I am interested in this topic it got me to look into it deeper. No telling who would be available in this list, but here are some players that I would consider as possible guys to check both boxes and could be either PF or C:
Robert Williams
JJJ
Evan Mobley
Daniel Gafford (-)
RoCo
Isiaiah Stewart
Darius Bazley (-)
Maxi
John Collins
Thybulle
Brandon Clarke
Naz Reid
LeBron
Chris Boucher
Christian Wood (-)
PJ (-)
Let me know if you think I missed some. These are basically guys who have 1+ bpg and I wouldn't feel too bad if they were switched out to the perimeter. Mobile guys. But it is a pretty short list of players in the league. I went ahead and threw PJ on there for you. Most of these guys could play C for the Mavs, with a few PF's. Also, there is Issac out in ORL who would be great, if he can stay healthy. This doesn't mean that they are plus defenders when they get switched out, but they seem to qualify from a glance. So I ran them through RAPTOR and the ones who are negative are marked (-).
(03-08-2022, 09:41 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]I did think of that before I posted, but I think you really have to get specific when you talk about it. There are defensive measurements for that kind of play, but we are mostly eyeballing that quality when we talk about it here. It's not just blocks.
So I don't disagree, but I'm not at all sure that there's anyone out there that comes to mind that is both a rim protector and can simultaneously defend wings. That's what everyone is looking for isn't it? Who fits that quality for you?
I feel like there is a difference between "guarding wings" and not getting killed on switches. I look at our current starting center as my model (who I don't consider a perimeter defender). I want start with that and get better rebounding and rim protection, without losing too much on P&R defense. I feel like Holmes fits that bill. So does Collins (who I think can play a lot of minutes at center, including finishing games). I really like Capela too. He is having a down year and so are the Hawks. I have actually seen him on some bad contract lists. I wonder what his cost would be.
(03-09-2022, 12:12 AM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, now that I am interested in this topic it got me to look into it deeper. No telling who would be available in this list, but here are some players that I would consider as possible guys to check both boxes and could be either PF or C:
Robert Williams
JJJ
Evan Mobley
Daniel Gafford (-)
RoCo
Isiaiah Stewart
Darius Bazley (-)
Maxi
John Collins
Thybulle
Brandon Clarke
Naz Reid
LeBron
Chris Boucher
Christian Wood (-)
PJ (-)
Let me know if you think I missed some. These are basically guys who have 1+ bpg and I wouldn't feel too bad if they were switched out to the perimeter. Mobile guys. But it is a pretty short list of players in the league. I went ahead and threw PJ on there for you. Most of these guys could play C for the Mavs, with a few PF's. Also, there is Issac out in ORL who would be great, if he can stay healthy. This doesn't mean that they are plus defenders when they get switched out, but they seem to qualify from a glance. So I ran them through RAPTOR and the ones who are negative are marked (-).
I like some names on that list for sure. Both PJ and Holmes were rumored to be available at the TDL. Why pick between the two. Add both.
Draft day trade of THJ for Holmes
First round pick for PJ into the TE
Waive Burke and sign Dragic to the Vet Min
Later - trade Bertans at the TDL to get off some tax $
Luka - Dinwiddie - Dragic
Brunson - Green
DFS - Bullock
PJ Washington - Maxi
Holmes - Powell
(03-09-2022, 12:30 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]I like some names on that list for sure. Both PJ and Holmes were rumored to be available at the TDL. Why pick between the two. Add both.
Draft day trade of THJ for Holmes
First round pick for PJ into the TE
Waive Burke and sign Dragic to the Vet Min
Later - trade Bertans at the TDL to get off some tax $
Luka - Dinwiddie - Dragic
Brunson - Green
DFS - Bullock
PJ Washington - Maxi
Holmes - Powell
It’s just that simple, cause those offers sre exactly what every team wants and needs.
(03-09-2022, 12:30 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]I like some names on that list for sure. Both PJ and Holmes were rumored to be available at the TDL. Why pick between the two. Add both.
Draft day trade of THJ for Holmes
First round pick for PJ into the TE
Waive Burke and sign Dragic to the Vet Min
Later - trade Bertans at the TDL to get off some tax $
Luka - Dinwiddie - Dragic
Brunson - Green
DFS - Bullock
PJ Washington - Maxi
Holmes - Powell
All of those moves are probably light on the Mavs side. Also, if we are bringing in Holmes and not sending out Maxi or Powell, don't think we really need PJ. I like DFS at the 4, especially next to a legit center.
(03-09-2022, 12:45 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]All of those moves are probably light on the Mavs side. Also, if we are bringing in Holmes and not sending out Maxi or Powell, don't think we really need PJ. I like DFS at the 4, especially next to a legit center.
Idk what Holmes is worth. Everyone here says his value is low. And surely PJ isn’t worth 2 or more FRP but I’m just throwing stuff out there. Several have said that Maxi and Powell aren’t starters. Adding both PJ and Holmes pushes them to the 18-20 MPG bench role. It’s all just hypothetical anyway.
(03-09-2022, 12:55 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]Idk what Holmes is worth. Everyone here says his value is low.
I wouldn't say his value is low. He is a good center on a great contract and there are several teams that could use a good center (Charlotte, Phoenix if they trade Ayton, NY if they let Robinson walk, Boston, Brooklyn, Lakers,...). I would say he is available, because he is not happy as a back up center and because Sacramento could use improvements elsewhere. I am not sure Sacramento could be convinced THJ is the best offer available for Holmes.
(03-09-2022, 12:55 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]And surely PJ isn’t worth 2 or more FRP but I’m just throwing stuff out there.
I think FRP is a fair offer. Perhaps they would seek for a bit more value than late FRP. What I am not so sure - if Charlotte values him as late FRP worth, why would we value him as a starting PF on a contender worth? If he is really that good, why would Charlotte just let him walk for so little return. If he is just a solid rotation guy like Maxi, wouldn't it make more sense to save our assets for a big(er) move?
(03-09-2022, 02:16 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think FRP is a fair offer. Perhaps they would seek for a bit more value than late FRP. What I am not so sure - if Charlotte values him as late FRP worth, why would we value him as a starting PF on a contender worth? If he is really that good, why would Charlotte just let him walk for so little return. If he is just a solid rotation guy like Maxi, wouldn't it make more sense to save our assets for a big(er) move?
I believe I read somewhere that CHA needs off salary, PJ is due for a pretty good raise eventually. Maybe that’s why they value the pick, 4 cheap years. Why Mavs value him is because it moves Maxi to back up 4 where he may not break down and PJ is a very similar player that is much younger, and eventual replacement. Also, the depth of Dinwiddie-Green-Bullock-Maxi-DP is what eventually allows you to make a Brunson+Maxi+Bullock+multiple FRP for say… Lillard, at the TDL? Now I’ve gone off the deep end with it all but in all seriousness I’d love to add PJ and Holmes, who are younger - better versions of Maxi and DP.
That is what I call surrounding Luka with the right kind of players and being a deep TEAM.
(03-09-2022, 12:24 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I really like Capela too. He is having a down year and so are the Hawks. I have actually seen him on some bad contract lists. I wonder what his cost would be.
Prediction: Capela will be part of a trade to PHX this offseason that sends Ayton to ATL.
(03-09-2022, 07:38 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]I believe I read somewhere that CHA needs off salary, PJ is due for a pretty good raise eventually. Maybe that’s why they value the pick, 4 cheap years. Why Mavs value him is because it moves Maxi to back up 4 where he may not break down and PJ is a very similar player that is much younger, and eventual replacement. Also, the depth of Dinwiddie-Green-Bullock-Maxi-DP is what eventually allows you to make a Brunson+Maxi+Bullock+multiple FRP for say… Lillard, at the TDL? Now I’ve gone off the deep end with it all but in all seriousness I’d love to add PJ and Holmes, who are younger - better versions of Maxi and DP.
That is what I call surrounding Luka with the right kind of players and being a deep TEAM.
This is great! I’d love to have that lineup too. The issue is with how you get there. If Holmes and PJ are upgrades to Maxi and Powell, what are you willing to give up to get them, cause I’m pretty sure the teams they’re on now know the on court value those players bring, and they are not in the gift giving business.
Are you willing to do Maxi for Holmes straight up? What if it takes more to beat other offers? How high are you willing to go in order to put your starting lineup vision together?
(03-09-2022, 11:38 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Prediction: Capela will be part of a trade to PHX this offseason that sends Ayton to ATL.
So Young+Ayton+Collins will be their big 3? Might work, but it's going to take some creativity, like a SnT.
Ayton is RFA this offseason with a $16.4M QO and a $31.5M Cap Hold. I have no clue what his market value is but you'd have to sign him at ~$15.85M for a straight trade. Capela is at $19.7M next season and ATL is already at ~$145M with only 9 contracts. If they are a play-in team that doesn't make the playoffs, I could see bigger changes before next season.
Of course, if PHX wins the Larry O, then they might just keep and pay Ayton in their post-championship euphoria.
(03-09-2022, 12:14 PM)michaeltex Wrote: [ -> ]Ayton is RFA this offseason with a $16.4M QO and a $31.5M Cap Hold. I have no clue what his market value is but you'd have to sign him at ~$15.85M for a straight trade. Capela is at $19.7M next season and ATL is already at ~$145M with only 9 contracts. If they are a play-in team that doesn't make the playoffs, I could see bigger changes before next season.
Atlanta has that useful Gallo contract that can be send to third team to make the numbers work. I think Atlanta will be after any star that becomes available and they are in prime position to execute the deal. Ayton is one of most likely to be available as Phoenix is notoriously cheap.
(03-09-2022, 11:38 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Prediction: Capela will be part of a trade to PHX this offseason that sends Ayton to ATL.
Thats too believable and I hate that it could come true.
(03-09-2022, 12:12 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]This is great! I’d love to have that lineup too. The issue is with how you get there. If Holmes and PJ are upgrades to Maxi and Powell, what are you willing to give up to get them, cause I’m pretty sure the teams they’re on now know the on court value those players bring, and they are not in the gift giving business.
Are you willing to do Maxi for Holmes straight up? What if it takes more to beat other offers? How high are you willing to go in order to put your starting lineup vision together?
I posted a trade earlier, admittedly without much thought put to it, but one I think is “legal”. Idk the value of Holmes or Washington, only that they were both rumored to be shopped at the TDL. Many here believe THJ and Holmes have similar trade value, so…
Our 2022 FRP + TPE for PJ Washington
THJ for Holmes (willing to add a heavily protected future FRP that likely becomes a SRP?)
That leaves resigning Brunson at ~20M
Luka - Dinwiddie
Brunson - Green
DFS - Bullock
Washington - Maxi
Holmes - DP
With that kind of depth, at next years TDL, you can then use Brunson’s new contract and positive value players, Bullock and Maxi plus future draft capital to bring in any star available (Lillard)
Brunson 20M + Maxi 9M + Bullock 10M = 39M
Lillard 39M
Lillard - Dinwiddie
Luka
DFS - Green
Washington - Bertans
Holmes - DP
I used Lillard because of the moves the front office just made there and his relationship with Nico. Plus Brunson is a nice get in a Lillard trade, if POR is forced to do so.
(03-09-2022, 02:17 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]I posted a trade earlier, admittedly without much thought put to it, but one I think is “legal”. Idk the value of Holmes or Washington, only that they were both rumored to be shopped at the TDL. Many here believe THJ and Holmes have similar trade value, so…
Our 2022 FRP + TPE for PJ Washington
THJ for Holmes (willing to add a heavily protected future FRP that likely becomes a SRP?)
That leaves resigning Brunson at ~20M
Luka - Dinwiddie
Brunson - Green
DFS - Bullock
Washington - Maxi
Holmes - DP
With that kind of depth, at next years TDL, you can then use Brunson’s new contract and positive value players, Bullock and Maxi plus future draft capital to bring in any star available (Lillard)
Brunson 20M + Maxi 9M + Bullock 10M = 39M
Lillard 39M
Lillard - Dinwiddie
Luka
DFS - Green
Washington - Bertans
Holmes - DP
I used Lillard because of the moves the front office just made there and his relationship with Nico. Plus Brunson is a nice get in a Lillard trade, if POR is forced to do so.
I saw those trades and I don’t think it takes the other teams into account when making them as mvossman pointed out. I myself am not one to talk to with regards to a straight THJ for Holmes swap because I fought that fight not too long ago around here.
First, salary is not a fit, they have to add a player so none of these THJ for Holmes trades are actually a final product. Second, many around here ignore THJ reverting to the mean this year with his 3%. Is that permanent? Does Sac believe they get the 2 years of great % or what we got this year? One thing about Heild, even when he was publicly upset with his team, he still put up good shooting. THJ signed a new contract and crapped the bed. Coincidence? Maybe, but he won’t get much time to turn this season around with the injury. Also, it’s not about what we think, it’s about what the FOs around the league think and with this particular trade what the Sac FO thinks.
The second trade of PJ for a late FRP also doesn’t think about the other team. Sure they were shopping PJ because Bridges has shown to be the better player at his position for them. Shopping him is to get max value out of a guy that is first and foremost young (!). Also he’s too good to play the role he’s playing. They’re shopping him to get a missing piece to their championship team. They need a C desperately on that team, it’s no secret.