(11-26-2021, 01:54 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]How can you ignore JB's last stated desire that he wants to run his own team? There has been nothing else said about it since then, so we cannot assume anything is different. Even if he gets a big contract and starting spot offer from here, that does not alleviate the fact that Luka runs this team.
IF we cannot reconcile that desire in HIS mind (not yours or what you think should be enough), what do you think happens? If he leaves without any bit of compensation (or a bit of compensation from a SnT) how would you react?
I'll welcome correction if someone has an actual cite, but I am fairly certain JB has
never made a public statement that he wants to run his own team. Plenty of talking heads (some of whom, e.g., Devin Harris, may have legitimate inside knowledge) have said that that they
think that is his goal/desire, but I don't recall a single one that has stated it as a fact they got "from the horse's mouth" so to speak as opposed to an inference they themselves are making. And they've certainly never gotten into the weeds of his priorities--that is, its entirely understandable that JB would *like* to run his own team, but is it so important to him that he'd sacrifice large amounts of money or go to a bad team (a la Jerami Grant) to get it done as opposed to playing on a perennial playoff team with a generational superstar that he clearly has good chemistry with?
(Also not saying I know he wants to stay in Dallas. And certainly if the Mavs front office, which can speak directly to Jalen and his brain trust about what he wants vs what they can provide, doesn't feel very comfortable that they can retain him then they need to move on--and if he does walk this summer for nothing that will be a major knock against the idea that Nico is supposed to be good at player relations. But I do find the recurring certainty among fans that they know which way Jalen will jump to be unsustainable on the available evidence).
my point .. Jalen is also more valuable and we could get better assets .. THJ with the contract we gave him, he is neutral at best .. Keeping Jalen would be great, but his size / Defense, and the fact that you can't play alongside Luka against elite / Playoff teams..if we keep the same guys..the results will be the same..we urgently need a wing 2-way, above average + than a 6 elite man (in my opinion)
(11-27-2021, 03:16 AM)Mikelo Wrote: [ -> ]my point .. Jalen is also more valuable and we could get better assets .. THJ with the contract we gave him, he is neutral at best .. Keeping Jalen would be great, but his size / Defense, and the fact that you can't play alongside Luka against elite / Playoff teams..if we keep the same guys..the results will be the same..we urgently need a wing 2-way, above average + than a 6 elite man (in my opinion)
Brunson is better on defense than Tim imo.
Incase Dragic ever gets here, i doubt the Mavs defense suffering if you move Brunson to the starting 5, and have Tim come of the bench.
(11-27-2021, 04:50 AM)sefant Wrote: [ -> ]Brunson is better on defense than Tim imo.
Incase Dragic ever gets here, i doubt the Mavs defense suffering if you move Brunson to the starting 5, and have Tim come of the bench.
Exactly and at best the Brunson vs. THJ defensive debate is even so there is really not anything lost or gained by him starting when it comes to a defensive perspective. THJ has been atrocious on defense this year.
I think its a mistake to trade JB just because he is a good asset.
He is the 2nd most consistent player on the team and THJ should be moved if its required to keep Brunson.
(11-27-2021, 03:16 AM)Mikelo Wrote: [ -> ]my point .. Jalen is also more valuable and we could get better assets .. THJ with the contract we gave him, he is neutral at best .. Keeping Jalen would be great, but his size / Defense, and the fact that you can't play alongside Luka against elite / Playoff teams..if we keep the same guys..the results will be the same..we urgently need a wing 2-way, above average + than a 6 elite man (in my opinion)
If Brunson is more valuable you do not trade him unless you get equal value. His clutch scoring ability counts towards that value. IMO you are not making the case why we should move him given that value to the team.
I have maintained that Brunson should net an All Star but how do you replace Brunson's clutch scoring ability if the return is not an allstar. If you trade for Gordon and Christian Wood you would be getting two injury prone high risk players.
Unless its for Lillard or someone with star caliber ability you have to move THJ if Brunson wants to be a starter.
THJ will be 30 in two months and Brunson is 25.
(11-27-2021, 10:55 AM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]If Brunson is more valuable you do not trade him unless you get equal value. His clutch scoring ability counts towards that value. IMO you are not making the case why we should move him given that value to the team.
I have maintained that Brunson should net an All Star but how do you replace Brunson's clutch scoring ability if the return is not an allstar. If you trade for Gordon and Christian Wood you would be getting two injury prone high risk players.
Unless its for Lillard or someone with star caliber ability you have to move THJ if Brunson wants to be a starter.
THJ will be 30 in two months and Brunson is 25.
I have always been we need more Brunson's, not less. Jalen wasn't very good in his limited minutes in his first playoff series last year, but I am already sold that he is a guy that is going to help win important games as his career goes on. He is a mentally tough player who doesn't make a lot of mistakes and is a winner. That doesn't mean he will succeed every game, but more often than not he is going to help you win. In some ways, I think he is similar to JET. Not in playing style. JET had some stinkers but got to a stage where you could count on him to produce late in games. Was JET the perfect player? No, in fact some teams may have looked to try to upgrade him. But for me, a guy who makes winning plays are invaluable. In a lot of ways, I want to view how our other guys perform in big moments. Which guys are championship caliber players who won't shrink when the stakes raise. I am already sold on Jalen. Several of our other guys I am unsure about.
I also think you need mentally strong players around Luka. Luka is so head strong that he can't have guys who just defer at all times to him. I think you need at least 3-4 of them who have a confidence to not shrink from Luka. I think Jalen is one.
On a separate matter, it looks like Jalen, Maxi, Dwight and Josh Green all had Thanksgiving together. Than last night it looks like Maxi, Jalen and Josh went to the Stars game (they all posted an instagram picture about it). Sure, I would like to see Josh earning playing time and playing well. But he seems to be really liked by most of the team. That is important. Obviously, you need to be able to play eventually. I can envision him finding a role eventually here, but will the Mavs be patient to wait on him? Being well liked by the core players could play a factor in that.
(11-26-2021, 09:57 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs have been confident about a lot of things that haven’t happened.
The Mavs have generally been a disaster when it comes to free agent signings, but when was the last time they wanted to keep somebody and failed to do so? Their re-signing hit rate when they clearly want to do so is high.
(11-29-2021, 05:46 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]The Mavs have generally been a disaster when it comes to free agent signings, but when was the last time they wanted to keep somebody and failed to do so? Their re-signing hit rate when they clearly want to do so is high.
That's a good point.
However, when was the last time someone they wanted to keep had the kind of interest Brunson is going to get? I'm honestly asking, but I feel like that situation doesn't come up often around here.
I'm obviously ok with keeping Brunson, but I could be talked into moving him, too. The worst case scenario would be losing him for nothing. I've defended them at times when people get upset at throwing away minor assets here and there, but this particular asset is pretty major, imo.
(11-29-2021, 05:50 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]That's a good point.
However, when was the last time someone they wanted to keep had the kind of interest Brunson is going to get? I'm honestly asking, but I feel like that situation doesn't come up often around here.
I'm obviously ok with keeping Brunson, but I could be talked into moving him, too. The worst case scenario would be losing him for nothing. I've defended them at times when people get upset at throwing away minor assets here and there, but this particular asset is pretty major, imo.
I mean the freshest example in my mind is THJ, who supposedly got a bigger offer.
(11-29-2021, 05:52 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I mean the freshest example in my mind is THJ, who supposedly got a bigger offer.
Yeah, that's a good call.
I just feel like we're going to be pretty shocked at how hot of a commodity Brunson is if he keeps playing so well. I think he's going to be a day 1 priority for some teams.
(11-29-2021, 05:57 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, that's a good call.
I just feel like we're going to be pretty shocked at how hot of a commodity Brunson is if he keeps playing so well. I think he's going to be a day 1 priority for some teams.
The real question is how many of those teams are going to have cap space beyond the MLE. That may be our best hope of holding on to him without paying a fortune.
(11-26-2021, 11:16 AM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]New Question for the board:
Why are you guys so emphatic on moving Brunson vs. moving THJ or other pieces to make room for Brunson's new salary?
Brunson is far more consistent than THJ and in terms of production value, Brunson is more deserving of that salary cap percentage.
I don't think THJ or Brunson are part of a championship core. Giving guys like that hefty contracts is okay if your core is in place and you want to become a tax payer. I wouldn't have given THJ the contract the Mavs did this summer (at least the cap number are decreasing). 7-8M would be my number for Brunson and I think he'll command more on the open market.
(11-29-2021, 06:18 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think THJ or Brunson are part of a championship core. Giving guys like that hefty contracts is okay if your core is in place and you want to become a tax payer. I wouldn't have given THJ the contract the Mavs did this summer (at least the cap number are decreasing). 7-8M would be my number for Brunson and I think he'll command more on the open market.
That seems really low. I would think he would easily be worth the MLE. Especially considering his age and the fact he appears to improving on a yearly basis. I was not a fan of the THJ contract, but I would be totally fine with Brunson max extension (12) and happy with MLE.
(11-29-2021, 06:38 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]That seems really low. I would think he would easily be worth the MLE. Especially considering his age and the fact he appears to improving on a yearly basis. I was not a fan of the THJ contract, but I would be totally fine with Brunson max extension (12) and happy with MLE.
Caruso is my litmus test for the contract and I wouldn't pay Jalen more than him. Jalen's a better scorer, Caruso has a better all-around game and doesn't come with the same athletic limitations. MBT have had a really bad habit of overpaying rotational guys (Powell, WCS, Bullock) and they need to buck that trend.
I think you're both dreaming. I think Brunson has been looking at MLE money in the rearview mirror since about this time last season. Someone is going to want to build their entire offense around him.
If you don't think he's worth that, I get it. I do think he's worth it, but I get it.
This discrepancy in how we all view the guy might explain why some are so anxious to get a value trade done this year, although to @"mvossman"'s point re cap room, I suppose it's fairly likely that a sign and trade could get done if he decides to take on a larger role for some other team.
I'm not dreaming. What I would do and what the MBT usually do are usually miles apart.
(11-29-2021, 07:51 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not dreaming. What I would do and what the MBT usually do are usually miles apart.
Meaning what, you know he's getting more than $7 million, but you'd rather see him play somewhere else, anyway?
So you'd trade him, I guess?
(11-29-2021, 08:04 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Meaning what, you know he's getting more than $7 million, but you'd rather see him play somewhere else, anyway?
So you'd trade him, I guess?
I think he'll get a lot more than what I'd be willing to offer him. I think he'll get that here. I think whoever pays him that is making a mistake. I like Jalen because I like athletes who maximize their potential but I don't see him as anything more than a rotational piece due to his physical limitations that make him a liability on defense and someone who can be shut down if a good defender keys into him.
The market sets the price..Graham / Rose / Monte ... they are players "similar to Jalen" you could argue that even better..this is their price 8/12 $ .. I understand that it is one of our best players..but that it only talks about how mediocre we are, outside of Luka..in the 2/15 positions .. Only compare with the worst teams .. NOP / Magic / Houston / Pistons have better players and better assets .. NOP..Valanciunas / Ingram / Hart ... Magic..Isaak / Carter / Bamba / Okeke / Cole etc etc
This team needs a trade and needs it bad.
Kinda sick and tired of seeing the same 10 guys the last 3 years around Luka.