MavsBoard

(02-14-2022, 03:39 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: [ -> ]The trade was not based on anything positive the Mavs mgmt saw with those two as much as it was about their desperation to get rid of KP that they took the first deal where someone was offering them something. 

That's the way I see it, anyway. 

Now that it's over, I think it's fun to imagine/debate/argue about what the new guys will look like here, because...they're here. 

But, it seems like people are comparing them (mentally) to either the price that Dallas paid for Porzingis to begin with or the dream of what Porzingis could have been here. All I'm trying to say is that those ships sailed way back in '20, to my way of thinking. 

These new guys aren't going to come remotely close to either of those things, but the Mavs didn't have those things. They were never again going to have them. The new cap situation isn't nearly as good as it might be had they never traded for and extended Porzingis, but THEY DID. This is what it takes (I guess) to get a horrendous MAX contract off the books without attaching meaningful picks to it (you literally can't attach good contracts as sweeteners, otherwise you have to trade for half of someone's team!). 

Again, they have been on a collision course with this outcome since the dude got hurt again in the bubble (probably before that, but that's when it became clear to us). What possible value could there have been to put it off even more? Did we really want to watch THIS roster until his contract expired? Would it have been worth trading Brunson or DFS for a 1st, just so 1-2 1sts could've been packaged with Porzingis to turn him into air? They wouldn't have cap room with Luka's extension kicking in, and they'd be without whatever assets it took to do that, right? To me, that's far, far worse than where they are today. 

I think we should all be pissed they couldn't get something like this done LAST YEAR, tbh. But better late than never.

(02-14-2022, 03:44 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Slightly disagree.  I think they saw some value in Dinwiddie and to a lesser extent, Bertans.  Bertans contract is longer so you are prolonging ripping off the KP band-aid by making the trade.  Conversely they could have just given KP the John Wall treatment.

Not disagreeing that a big guard and a shooter if they somehow regained their previous form, will always find some minutes. All I am saying is Kamm trying to show why DB won’t be a net negative or others tearing DB down for that, is irrelevant.  I think the projected upside was a bonus if it happens. As for the Wall treatment I am not even sure this mgmt is good enough to think through all alternatives. If so they should have realized that the Wiz were more desperate. Instead we got no picks and sent one to them.

(02-14-2022, 03:33 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]I agree, i think Green is the odd man out in the 8-man playoff rotation. But his minutes in the regular season shouldn't be taken by a 35 year old Dragic who also won't be in the 8 man playoff rotation imo.

Playoffs guard rotation will be Luka 42 min / JB 36 min / Dinwiddie 18 min. There aren't more than 96 minutes to go around for Dragic (or Green). Minutes aren't exact, but the point is the same.

I think we're all kidding ourselves if we believe that DAL will go the traditional route and "tighten up" their rotations for the playoffs. Yes, the key guys will see increase in minutes but we're a depth team now, with KP gone and THJ out/not being himself. This becomes more true if we have any injuries to our bigs. If Maxi, especially, or DP goes down DAL instantly becomes a small ball team, ala HOU when they we're on the cusp a few years ago. No, we won't play 10 guys meanigful minutes but we will likely see DAL remain a 9-10 player rotation, even in the POs. In that scenario, it'd be great to have another, proven guard.

*Not going to lose sleep if GD signs elsewhere. I just don't see the logic in tapping out or worrying about the development of guys that are so young/don't play big minutes now/shouldn't in the 22 Playoffs.

Am I the only person excited about replacing KP with a player that was a borderline all star guard and a top 10 shooter in the league that happens to be a stretch 4? 

To be honest I expected much less and the only thing I am worried about is not having a legit big on the team. 

I hate how small we are, it really worries me but that is it for me.

(02-14-2022, 04:02 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]Am I the only person excited about replacing KP with a player that was a borderline all star guard and a top 10 shooter league that happens to be a stretch 4? 

No, not at all. But I think there are very few who believe that's what the Mavs actually got in this trade. 

If they did, I will jump on board pretty quickly, as will many others, I suspect.

(02-14-2022, 03:52 PM)jdb152 Wrote: [ -> ]I think we're all kidding ourselves if we believe that DAL will go the traditional route and "tighten up" their rotations for the playoffs. Yes, the key guys will see increase in minutes but we're a depth team now, with KP gone and THJ out/not being himself. This becomes more true if we have any injuries to our bigs. If Maxi, especially, or DP goes down DAL instantly becomes a small ball team, ala HOU when they we're on the cusp a few years ago. No, we won't play 10 guys meanigful minutes but we will likely see DAL remain a 9-10 player rotation, even in the POs. In that scenario, it'd be great to have another, proven guard.

*Not going to lose sleep if GD signs elsewhere. I just don't see the logic in tapping out or worrying about the development of guys that are so young/don't play big minutes now/shouldn't in the 22 Playoffs.

I think what you're saying is a fair opinion, it's just not one I agree with. For all the discussion on what KP is or isn't, what Dinwiddie is this year vs 2 years ago and the same for Bertans. It's literally the same thing for Dragic. Another guy making too much money that did something well a couple years ago. I'd rather see Green play ~15 min a night. OR showcase Dinwiddie the additional minutes. That's just where I am with it all. If Dragic wants to come here and never play a minute unless there is an injury to JB, SD or Green, then I guess I agree that the Mavs should add him (only at the expense of waiving Burke).

(02-14-2022, 03:52 PM)jdb152 Wrote: [ -> ]*Not going to lose sleep if GD signs elsewhere. I just don't see the logic in tapping out or worrying about the development of guys that are so young/don't play big minutes now/shouldn't in the 22 Playoffs.

I assumed the relationship with Luka and agent = got a heads up Dragic would be more interested in playing for a contender the rest of this year. That would explain the last-minute effort to trade for him and the (possibly feigned) disinterest in him now.

https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status...2733592579

Thoughts?  Is it just me or do the Mavs very rarely seem to negotiate a bargain?  Although I guess DFS is finishing up a contract paying him 4 million a year.  Jalen's agent is licking his chops.

(02-14-2022, 03:30 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure I agree. 

I think Bertans is negative, for sure. THJ's and Dinwiddie's are probably slightly negative right now, due to injury and recovering from injury status. 

I think everyone on this roster with the exception of Bertans is very movable this summer. Very. In time, maybe Bertans might be, too. 

Plus, there will be no more wasting everyone's time and effort getting KP the ball in "his spots." What's possible on court is even more development from the guys who were already here, most notably Luka/Brunson. I honestly believe having KP out there getting those touches had a negative impact on Luka's season.

Movable does not mean asset.  What are our assets?  How are we going to improve the talent level on this team, which just got significantly lower after that trade regardless of fit?

The KP thing was annoying, but clearly an effort to jack up his trade value.  That failed epically.  If we don't trade him we are no longer catering to him.  Don't know if that means we get last years KP, but I would honestly rather have that than the two contracts we just got.  

KP may have had some negative impact on Luka (I would argue it was more his being out of shape than anything else).  I think there is a significant danger that Dinwiddie is going to have a negative impact on Luka, or even more likely Brunson.

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(02-14-2022, 04:02 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]Am I the only person excited about replacing KP with a player that was a borderline all star guard and a top 10 shooter in the league that happens to be a stretch 4? 

To be honest I expected much less and the only thing I am worried about is not having a legit big on the team. 

I hate how small we are, it really worries me but that is it for me.

I think you may want to brace yourself for some wild disappointment.

(02-14-2022, 05:04 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status...2733592579

Thoughts?  Is it just me or do the Mavs very rarely seem to negotiate a bargain?  Although I guess DFS is finishing up a contract paying him 4 million a year.  Jalen's agent is licking his chops.

I'd say that's a value contract.  Dorian improves every season.  I don't expect leaps from him but he can continue to refine his game.   I do think he could have swung bigger numbers if he would have ventured into free agency.

(02-14-2022, 05:04 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Thoughts?  Is it just me or do the Mavs very rarely seem to negotiate a bargain? 

I think DFS and Kleber both got team-friendly deals last time around (not that the Mavs took advantage of the extra wiggle room). 

I also think this IS a team-friendly deal for DFS now. He would've gotten more in a weak free agency class, I suspect. Were you hoping for less?

(02-14-2022, 05:04 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Movable does not mean asset.  What are our assets?  How are we going to improve the talent level on this team, which just got significantly lower after that trade regardless of fit?

The KP thing was annoying, but clearly an effort to jack up his trade value.  That failed epically.  If we don't trade him we are no longer catering to him.  Don't know if that means we get last years KP, but I would honestly rather have that than the two contracts we just got.  

KP may have had some negative impact on Luka (I would argue it was more his being out of shape than anything else).  I think there is a significant danger that Dinwiddie is going to have a negative impact on Luka, or even more likely Brunson.

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I think you may want to brace yourself for some wild disappointment.

The moment Dinwiddie drops 30 we will see how the conversation shifts.

(02-14-2022, 05:12 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]The moment Dinwiddie drops 30 we will see how the conversation shifts.

As bad as he's been playing, good luck with that. I mean it could happen but I wouldn't hold my breath.

(02-14-2022, 03:52 PM)jdb152 Wrote: [ -> ]I think we're all kidding ourselves if we believe that DAL will go the traditional route and "tighten up" their rotations for the playoffs. Yes, the key guys will see increase in minutes but we're a depth team now, with KP gone and THJ out/not being himself. This becomes more true if we have any injuries to our bigs. If Maxi, especially, or DP goes down DAL instantly becomes a small ball team, ala HOU when they we're on the cusp a few years ago. No, we won't play 10 guys meanigful minutes but we will likely see DAL remain a 9-10 player rotation, even in the POs. In that scenario, it'd be great to have another, proven guard.

*Not going to lose sleep if GD signs elsewhere. I just don't see the logic in tapping out or worrying about the development of guys that are so young/don't play big minutes now/shouldn't in the 22 Playoffs.

We are already a small ball team.  The only 4 we have with size is Maxi, who is now our backup 5.  

I think the opposite regarding lineups.  We are not a "depth" team.  We don't have a lot of quality depth.  We have already moved our best depth/bench players to the starting lineup (Brunson/Powell/Maxi).  I only see 7 guys worthy of real play off minutes.  Our big rotation will be Powell/DFS/Maxi.  The other three spots will be Luka/Brunson/Bullock/Dinwiddie.  Maybe Bertans will make a turn around and not be a complete negative on the court like he has been all year.  I'm not holding my breath.  Don't think you want Green getting many minutes with his current offensive game.

Honestly if we have any hope of getting out of the first round (mine is dwindling) Dragic would likely be more valuable than Green or Bertans.  I would have greatly preferred him to Dinwiddie due to contracts and I think that move has less potential to push Brunson out.

(02-14-2022, 05:04 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Movable does not mean asset.  What are our assets? 

I literally think everyone on this team not named Bertans could be viewed as an asset in the right light. The Mavs are definitely not in a good situation, but a better one, imho. 

(02-14-2022, 05:04 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]How are we going to improve the talent level on this team, which just got significantly lower after that trade regardless of fit?

Well, I don't think it got worse. I don't agree that KP was worth having here. I don't view him as talent. So, I think it stayed the same at worst, only splitting it into two players improves the situation marginally. Now, they can start to reshape the roster with incremental improvements over time. I think it's possible that they improved their talent level, actually. If even one of these two new guys starts playing better this year or next, I'd say they have, tbqh. 

I hate Dinwiddie, but the version of him just before the injury is a better player (imo) than the version of Porzingis we've had here since the trade. Better talent, and possibly an asset soon, just not a player I particularly like. 

They are definitely not in position to acquire that 2nd All-Star, that's for sure. But, at least now they can get started trying to get in position to think that way. That's better than waiting for KP's contract to expire. That was hopeless. This will take a while because of all the mistakes made (mostly KP). But, it was ALWAYS going to seem like this right after moving him. The victory is in not having to wait any longer before starting that long, depressing process.

(02-14-2022, 05:04 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Don't know if that means we get last years KP, but I would honestly rather have that than the two contracts we just got.  

 
I can respect this thinking, but I guess the organization (and probably KP) wanted to avoid this scenario. I think I prefer to avoid it, too. 

They're in a bad spot. The last 3 years have been wasted. I get it. Still happy he's gone. I'm leaving some room in my heart/soul to hope for the best with the new guys, but not much. I think this was the first sign of some pretty big changes.

(02-14-2022, 05:08 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]Pistons Wanted Jalen Brunson Trade; Dallas Mavs Asked for Cade Cunningham (msn.com)

I think the synopsis is a bit of sensationalist journalism.  I am sure the Mavs just like any other team talking to the Pistons asked if Cunningham was available.  As they should.

(02-14-2022, 05:22 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I think the opposite regarding lineups.  We are not a "depth" team.  We don't have a lot of quality depth.  We have already moved our best depth/bench players to the starting lineup (Brunson/Powell/Maxi).  I only see 7 guys worthy of real play off minutes.  Our big rotation will be Powell/DFS/Maxi.  The other three spots will be Luka/Brunson/Bullock/Dinwiddie.  Maybe Bertans will make a turn around and not be a complete negative on the court like he has been all year.  I'm not holding my breath.  Don't think you want Green getting many minutes with his current offensive game.

But isn't the fact that you listed Dinwiddie in the rotation, combined with the likelihood (let's be honest) that KP would not have been, an indication that at least a little talent has been added? I mean, that's not even the selling point, for me, and again, I'm no Dinwiddie fan. But, I feel like they're about to get more out of him in the playoffs than they would've from Porzingis.

Brunson available?  Cade available?  Luka available?  dial tone.

(02-14-2022, 05:25 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I literally think everyone on this team not named Bertans could be viewed as an asset in the right situation. They are definitely not in a good situation, but a better one, imho. 

+Luka
+DFS
+JB
+Maxi
=Green
=Bullock (I'd bump him to + if he keeps up his current level of play)
=Frank
-THJ (I think this flips to + after next season)
-Powell
-Dinwiddie
-Bertans
-Burke
-Boban
-Brown
-Chriss