(05-13-2022, 02:51 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]What do you think he would cost?
I'm honestly not sure, but that's not a team who has shown they want "the right role players" imo. The type they want, they've already gone out and gotten. It worked ok last year, but this year they fell back down to Earth like the collection of mercenaries they are. Smart, loyal, hard working types like DFS, Kleber, etc, don't seem to be their style.
My guess is that
if they decide they want to move Collins (I'm not convinced they will) then they'll have their eye on a player who makes their top 6 noticeably better, just like the Mavs. The Mavs can't really offer that, unless they're willing to give up Brunson or Dinwiddie, and tbh, I doubt a Trae Young team would see either option as some great opportunity. If they DO, then that should tell us something about Collins. Imo.
(05-13-2022, 02:57 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]Maxi/Hardaway/2-3 FRPs (or Josh Green)
Out. Not even positive Collins will seem like the best player in the deal two years from now.
What the Mavs did last summer was target the right kind of player (Reggie, Sterling: 50% hit rate) and a whole bunch of centers to try out. None of them worked. I would not be surprised to see the very same strategy again this summer. Target the right kind of player and a grab bag of centers, hoping to find another useful piece or 2.
(05-13-2022, 02:57 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]Maxi/Hardaway/2-3 FRPs (or Josh Green)
In for 2 firsts. All day.
(05-13-2022, 03:20 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]And if it doesn't work?
At some point a risk has to be taken, imho, if you think this is the guy. Which player is so good that you are 100 % sure it will work? I doubt guys like that would cost only 2 FRP.
I think the evaluation is reasonable (perhaps Maxi would not be needed to be included), but I totally agree with you that Atlanta is not the one willing to take that package. Perhaps we can get in a three team deal, where the receiving party would value picks more than Collins.
Rule #1 We shall not overpay for a center.
What Maxi gives us currently is great and the NBA rules really make being an effective inside big nearly impossible, but let´s not kid ourselves what our depth chart really looks like. Powell was one of six players to play 82 games, coming off a torn achilles in his 30s. That was crucial to manage the regular season. At the same time he´s largely unplayable in the play-offs due to his lack of offensive skills and rebounding. Maxi is a walking injury risk, especially when his minutes are expanded. Therefore adding two centers through free agency and the draft is a necessity.
Be opportunistic, but keep the asset base for the Robin trade.
(05-13-2022, 03:24 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]At some point a risk has to be taken, imho, if you think this is the guy.
Agreed, for sure!
But, "this is the guy" and "it's possible that this could be the guy" are two hugely different things to me, given how good the team clearly already is. A wrong move now would be a death sentence if we're talking giving the pick flexibility away as soon as they get it back.
Kamm clearly think Collins IS the guy. I don't hate the idea, but I'm not ready to risk sending Luka to LA to finish out his career over it, either. Imo, if we're talking (multiple!!) 1sts at this juncture, I'm waiting for an actual All Star.
(05-13-2022, 03:26 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Be opportunistic, but keep the asset base for the Robin trade.
I'm right here with you.
(05-13-2022, 01:10 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I would love Turner or Capela, and a Holmes addition would get my attention, at least.
However, and I realize I am one of the last who'll type this with a genuine heart, I STILL don't think center is the problem. I definitely don't like what Powell is giving the team during this series (other than discouraging pick and roll for any purpose other than getting an iso matchup PHX prefers) but I'd honestly take Kleber over Ayton after watching this series, ESPECIALLY given the price tag associated with each.
Do they need to improve at center? Possibly, but I think going all in on a high dollar guy at that position is just too damn risky.
To me, any kind of "swing for the fence" at all, if such a move is even possible, should be a guard or a forward who offers something noticeably superior than the current guards and forwards. It's just how I see things.
I have had my mind set on getting a starting level center mostly because I don't think Powell is that guy. But Maxi is playing so well in the playoffs that maybe we don't need a full time starting center. However, Maxi tends to wear down with big minutes, so we still need somebody who can provide 20 quality minutes in a playoff environment (which does not appear to be Powell). I'm getting more open to the idea of going after a young rotational guy who may develop into starter level in the near future.
(05-13-2022, 03:32 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I have had my mind set on getting a starting level center mostly because I don't think Powell is that guy. But Maxi is playing so well in the playoffs that maybe we don't need a full time starting center. However, Maxi tends to wear down with big minutes, so we still need somebody who can provide 20 quality minutes in a playoff environment (which does not appear to be Powell). I'm getting more open to the idea of going after a young rotational guy who may develop into starter level in the near future.
With you on the last sentence, especially relative to some of the pricier ideas for centers we've discussed around here.
And, not for nothing, but I saw your "maybe Powell is hurt" comment the other day and I think you might be onto something.
(05-13-2022, 02:51 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]What do you think he would cost?
Minimum of Dorian + Maxi + Pick. I think Atlanta gets better in that trade and we get worse (but younger). I don't pull the trigger on that deal.
Luka will not let them trade DFS.
(05-13-2022, 04:11 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Luka will not let them trade DFS.
My name is not Luka. I live on the second floor.
(05-13-2022, 03:05 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]What the Mavs did last summer was target the right kind of player (Reggie, Sterling: 50% hit rate) and a whole bunch of centers to try out. None of them worked. I would not be surprised to see the very same strategy again this summer. Target the right kind of player and a grab bag of centers, hoping to find another useful piece or 2.
Agree with this approach. Powell and Kleber are high character guys who fit the system and are under contract. Boban is likely to be back as well. Maybe Chriss is a guy you can develop next year or maybe you sign a vet like Biyombo, Lopez, Dieng, Dedmon, Damian Jones for the minimum. I just don't see the Mavs employing two bigs who will rarely play, so if you sign a serviceable vet, that may mean no Boban. Otherwise you develop a young player in the Powell mold who can screen and catch lobs.
I don't worry about offense at all. As for upgrades, look for guys who offer the most value defensively. Bullock, Ntilikina and Green are the best point of attack defenders on the team. DFS, Kleber, Bullock, Green are the best wing/forward defenders. I'd add depth to one of these groups. I like a versatile wing like Taurean Prince who can make life difficult for opposing bigs, defend, rebound and knock down corner threes.
(05-13-2022, 03:37 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Dorian + Maxi + Pick.
And I personally do that deal.
(05-13-2022, 05:34 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]And I personally do that deal.
For somebody that had major issues with KP availability, I'm a little surprised you are so high on a non star that misses a good 20 games a season.
(05-13-2022, 05:34 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]And I personally do that deal.
I don't think the Mavs would be interested in trading Maxi. Or DFS. Much less both.
Those are exactly the sort of players they want to fill their rotation, 2-way with a 3pt shot and making MLE-like money, and the contract size of each player in the rotation is going to be a big part of that. Bullock imo fits in that category too.
What even is the lineup if you do that deal? You need Maxi to play stretch 5 to compliment Collins but he's gone. If you play Collins at 5, there are no PFs. You moving Bullock there? More Bertans minutes? There's way too many guards.
I don't think Powell is hurt, he's not doing anything unusual for him, he just can't do his one specialized skill against playoff defenses. And unfortunately his value is entirely dependent on him being an elite rim-runner, since his rebounding and shot-blocking is far below par for playoff centers.
I agree the Mavs can't afford to overpay for a starting center, which is why I wouldn't give up any future picks for Turner. But if the price is Powell+Green+26, I'll do that any day of the week.
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