(06-27-2022, 11:28 PM)Okstate819 Wrote: [ -> ]If the Spurs really do send Dejounte to ATL for Gallo+ picks it sure would indicate they are going full team tank. Wonder if we could incentivize Pop to bring back Bertans so we could offload his contract.
That would probably cost at least a future first. Don't want to kill our future asset flexibility just to dump Bertans contract. I would rather stretch waive him than that.
(06-27-2022, 11:28 PM)Okstate819 Wrote: [ -> ]If the Spurs really do send Dejounte to ATL for Gallo+ picks it sure would indicate they are going full team tank. Wonder if we could incentivize Pop to bring back Bertans so we could offload his contract.
I'd honestly make this convoluted 4-team trade.
Knicks get: JB (w/ a contract of 4/103)
Spurs get: Cam Reddish, Grimes, + 3 FRP (2023 DAL First from NYK, 2 protected firsts from MIN)
Wolves get: Dejounte Murray+ Bertans
Mavs get: D'Angelo Russell
Why do the Knicks do it?---- They get their guy in JB, don't really lose any main rotation guys, and only end up spending 1 first to clear salary.
Why do the Spurs do it?---- They're about to take on Gallo and picks for Murray. That tells me they aren't interested in a huge haul besides picks. Reddish and Grimes are young enough for a rebuild, and still bad enough to lose games. They also get MIN picks, which end up being good usually!
Why do the Wolves do it?---- There have already been rumors about them wanting to move off of D'Lo. Murray fits their new defense first mindset and is on a cost controlled contract. They eat Bertans as a way to get off of Russell while also getting back an all-star. This is basically a version of the KP trade, but the Wolves are getting a much better player than the Wizards.
Why do the Mavs do it?--- Replace Brunson with another high level creator. Despite contrary belief, Russell has actually grown a lot as a defender. He has size at the position, and before this year was a solid 3pt shooter.
Only unrealistic version I see here is the Wolves eating Bertans. That alone is worth a first. Maybe the Wolves only send 1 first to the Spurs instead of 2. Mavs could also send Powell out to match the salaries rather than Bertans. Lots of permutations here.
(06-27-2022, 09:51 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]If JB is out, I still think SD is the 6th man.
Agree. I think Payton and THJ would be the guards off the bench alongside Dinwiddie with Reddish and a big if Reddish is part of the incoming. If the big is Maxi, you still have two premium defenders in that unit between Maxi and Payton and plenty of offense between SD/THJ and Reddish.
That leaves Wood/DFS/Bullock and Luka as obvious starters with the fifth starter less obvious. I struggle to see Wood (as a 5) in the same starting lineup as THJ from a defensive standpoint. I'm still not convinced that we won't start a big next to the obvious four starters (at least during the regular season). That big could be any of Maxi, Powell or Noel if we assume Noel is also part of a Brunson deal.
I would probably prefer to stay away from Payton. Not because he isn't a good player or one who will cost a lot of $, but there are just certain teams who I feel put players in the best position.
Kudos for Payton. Being 29 years old and finally breaking through. I love stories like that. He was not even guaranteed to make the roster last offseason. I just think the up tempo system GS plays and all the movement is just perfect for his game. I would prefer looking for the next Payton & Hartelstein types. Ideally that player can develop in your system. Hopefully Josh Green or Frankie. If not, find different guys.
I still prefer a bigger skilled wing if we spend the Taxpayers MLE.
(06-28-2022, 08:14 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Agree. I think Payton and THJ would be the guards off the bench alongside Dinwiddie with Reddish and a big if Reddish is part of the incoming. If the big is Maxi, you still have two premium defenders in that unit between Maxi and Payton and plenty of offense between SD/THJ and Reddish.
That leaves Wood/DFS/Bullock and Luka as obvious starters with the fifth starter less obvious. I struggle to see Wood (as a 5) in the same starting lineup as THJ from a defensive standpoint. I'm still not convinced that we won't start a big next to the obvious four starters (at least during the regular season). That big could be any of Maxi, Powell or Noel if we assume Noel is also part of a Brunson deal.
For a team that currently has a minutes crunch at the 3, I find it unlikely they exacerbate it going with 2 bigs in regular season. I also think you would not want to pair somebody like Powell or Noel with Wood as that would remove a large portion of his offensive game. That means you would be starting Maxi, currently leaving Powell as your lone big left off the bench. If they really wan to go two bigs, they would need to acquire another Maxi like player and send out some of the logjam at the 3.
It's hard to know what Kidd prefers on this. It seems clear that they were playing two bigs to start the season in order to "protect" KP and respect Powell. After the KP trade they had no choice to go single big. I really hope they don't start Powell. Its hard to see how Powell presence on the court would not have a negative impact a Luka/Wood P&R.
(06-28-2022, 09:02 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]For a team that currently has a minutes crunch at the 3, I find it unlikely they exacerbate it going with 2 bigs in regular season. I also think you would not want to pair somebody like Powell or Noel with Wood as that would remove a large portion of his offensive game. That means you would be starting Maxi, currently leaving Powell as your lone big left off the bench. If they really wan to go two bigs, they would need to acquire another Maxi like player and send out some of the logjam at the 3.
It's hard to know what Kidd prefers on this. It seems clear that they were playing two bigs to start the season in order to "protect" KP and respect Powell. After the KP trade they had no choice to go single big. I really hope they don't start Powell. Its hard to see how Powell presence on the court would not have a negative impact a Luka/Wood P&R.
Could be Maxi as the starter.
I think the Mavs will have the same general setup.
The fact that they used 2 bigs when playing KP was imo more a function of them willing to see if KP could create offense in general. Meh. And they had bigs out the wazoo, so there was that.
They are no longer overrun with bigs. They now have 3, not 5. Do they think Wood can create for everyone? I doubt it. And their wings can't do it.
Would they want to only have 1 guy who can create? I don't see it. It is too limiting, and makes too much of a burden on Luka. So if JB leaves, I expect the 2nd creator starter will be either SD or Dragic.
(06-28-2022, 09:12 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Could be Maxi as the starter.
If you start Maxi on the 4 then the only other 5 on the roster is Powell and the only other 4 is Bertans. To backup Dorian at the 3 you have Bullock, THJ, Green, Frank and probably Pinson. Things can change when free agency starts, but right now there is nothing about this roster construction that suggests they are planning on running with 2 bigs.
(06-28-2022, 10:24 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Things can change when free agency starts, but right now there is nothing about this roster construction that suggests they are planning on running with 2 bigs.
Where we see the roster “currently” is different. You are choosing to look at what is. I’ve moved on already to what I consider likely to be. To me, the tea leaves scream that Brunson is gone. The only question, to me, is whether there will be a S&T and who the incoming player(s) might be.
As I’ve said before, I see no world in which Dragic or GPII is added while Brunson is still here. Others can (and have) disagreed. We will know soon enough.
Any chance you can convince the Pelicans to take Bertans (w/ +2-second rounders) for Larry Nance Jr.?
Why the Pelicans do it? Bertans is a tall, floor spacer that they do not have; still a chance he returns at an elite 3PT shooting level. Zion returning won't give Nance much playing time and he's expiring, flip him for a need while they still can, especially w/ Zion's MAX contract looming.
Nance Jr. would really bolster the Mavs' froncourt and slide Powell into the old Boban role.
(06-28-2022, 12:16 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]As I’ve said before, I see no world in which Dragic or GPII is added while Brunson is still here. Others can (and have) disagreed. We will know soon enough.
I don't think JB's decision changes either of those. So the possible existence of these (if they were to happen) doesn't tell us anything imo.
I see Dragic - assuming he's coming -- signing to be 4th creator, mentor, buddy to Luka, emergency help. And if Brunson doesn't return then maybe his role is expanded.
I don't think GP is in the same use category. I'm guessing they would see him as the 3rd
wing, and that would be the same no matter whether Brunson returns.
(06-28-2022, 12:39 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]Any chance you can convince the Pelicans to take Bertans (w/ +2-second rounders) for Larry Nance Jr.?
Why the Pelicans do it? Bertans is a tall, floor spacer that they do not have; still a chance he returns at an elite 3PT shooting level. Zion returning won't give Nance much playing time and he's expiring, flip him for a need while they still can, especially w/ Zion's MAX contract looming.
Nance Jr. would really bolster the Mavs' froncourt and slide Powell into the old Boban role.
If the Mavs want to move Bertans, it would be a team that needs shooting. Especially one who needs floor-spacing for their interior-dominant big(s).
NO certainly qualifies.
(06-28-2022, 12:59 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think JB's decision changes either of those. So the possible existence of these (if they were to happen) doesn't tell us anything imo.
I see Dragic - assuming he's coming -- signing to be 4th creator, mentor, buddy to Luka, emergency help. And if Brunson doesn't return then maybe his role is expanded.
I don't think GP is in the same use category. I'm guessing they would see him as the 3rd wing, and that would be the same no matter whether Brunson returns.
Yeah, you’ve said this multiple times and I’ve said the opposite multiple times. We just don’t see things the same way. Of course, a month ago almost no one else thought there was even a chance Brunson was leaving and that has changed pretty dramatically in recent days. We will have a better idea how this will play out very soon.
(06-28-2022, 01:07 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Of course, a month ago almost no one else thought there was even a chance Brunson was leaving and that has changed pretty dramatically in recent days.
Disagree about the "month ago" sentiment and I do think there is a little bit of "the sky is falling" brewing on the board the last few days. No idea where Jalen ends up but no matter his decision, I don't think hinge has drastically swung in any direction.
So say Brunson commits to the Knicks, which deal is realistic, which do you want and which do you think the MBT wants:
Brunson + Kleber for Randle + our 2023 pick
Brunson + Kleber for Randle + Grimes
Brunson + Powell for Randle + Quickley
Brunson + Powell for Randle
Brunson for Rose + our 2023 pick
Brunson for Rose + Grimes
Brunson for Rose
Brunson + Powell for Rose + our 2023 pick
Brunson + Powell for Rose + Grimes
Brunson + Powell for Rose + Quickley
Brunson + Powell for Rose + Reddish
Brunson + Powell for Fournier + our 2023 pick
Brunson + Powell for Fournier
Brunson + Powell for Burks + Noel
Brunson for Burks + our 2023 pick
Brunson for Burks + Reddish
Brunson for Burks + Grimes
Brunson for Burks + Quickley
Brunson for Burks
Brunson for Noel + our 2023 pick
Brunson for Noel + Reddish
Brunson for Noel + Grimes
Brunson for Noel + Quickley
Brunson for Noel
Brunson for Reddish + Grimes +our 2023 pick
Brunson for Reddish + Quickley +our 2023 pick
Brunson for Reddish + Grimes + Quickley
Brunson for Reddish + Grimes
Brunson for Reddish + Quickley
I don’t see any scenario where we get our pick back in a SnT. I view that as wishful thinking.
Brunson for Burks would be my guess.
Which is terrible asset management and borderline GM/Owner malpractice.
(06-28-2022, 02:23 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t see any scenario where we get our pick back in a SnT. I view that as wishful thinking.
Brunson for Burks would be my guess.
Which is terrible asset management and borderline GM/Owner malpractice.
Not extending JB was already malpractice.
JB walking might be on his own accord and further, I do think there is a contract number that the Mavs should be comfortable with not putting up a fight to keep him.
Are double SNTs legal?
If Mavs are signing Dragic and using the small MLE on say GPII, I think that means they need to ship two players out and bring back one. My guess, Brunson and Frankie for Noel and maybe a #2. Or Brunson for Burks or Noel straight up with another trade on the horizon. If it’s Burks, I don’t think both GPII and Dragic will be signed.
Zach Lowe talks Brunson at the end of todays podcast. Said he thinks Dallas will need to outbid Knicks to keep Jalen....maybe significantly. Says there is hard feelings about the lack of extension offer and that the Brunson camp thinks it wasn't done in a timely manner (such a self own). Says if the Knicks offer 25 million, the consensus with other organizations that if you fine paying him 25, you really need to pay him 30. Can't worry about losing him for nothing for an extra 5. Said it was basically unanimous that you need to pay him that extra. He said he was surprised because how the league really fetishes over cap space.
Bobby Marks agreed. Said you can't risk losing him for money and having a pissed off Luka and not another scorer on the roster.
Lowe said he likes the fit with Brunson on the Knicks but that is a conversation for another day.