In the end it depends what Turner costs. If you can get Turner for THJ + 1st pick, you probably should do it without hesitation. If the package is the 1st + Kleber, i am more out than in. Because drafting a big (or a young talent in general), and keeping THJ + Kleber is probably way better for me.
Could still use the TMLE for a guy like Jalen Smith, and have a younger big to develop to replace Maxi in a few years (without drafting one). Basically adding 2 bigs (1 established / 1 younger big ) towards Kleber.
Keep Powell as expiring for a trade maybe. Otherwise he is insurance if Turner is injured.
Guys expendable/out: THJ (traded), Burke, Chriss (not needed anymore), Sterling Brown.
Guys in: Turner, Jalen Smith
Maybe someone needs a big in Powell, and you can turn him into another wing. Or use the TPE on a wing.
I think Kleber is ultra important. I am not convinced the Mavs beat the Suns with Turner instead of Kleber. Kleber ability to guard Booker/CP3 after getting a switch was basically one of the keys on defense in the series. Majority of Booker's/CP3 offense is getting a switch on the big, and cooking em. That didn't really work, because Kleber is too good on the perimeter.
I kinda see Green as semi important, if you can't get another wing. Otherwise the pressure on DFS/Bullock goes up even more if you trade Green. Frank had too much injury problems in the past.
Not sure where to post it, but Nets are expected to hire Igor Kokoškov as new assistant coach.
Hope it won't be big loss to our coaching staff
(06-05-2022, 05:14 AM)sefant Wrote: [ -> ]In the end it depends what Turner costs. If you can get Turner for THJ + 1st pick, you probably should do it without hesitation. If the package is the 1st + Kleber, i am more out than in. Because drafting a big (or a young talent in general), and keeping THJ + Kleber is probably way better for me.
Could still use the TMLE for a guy like Jalen Smith, and have a younger big to develop to replace Maxi in a few years (without drafting one). Basically adding 2 bigs (1 established / 1 younger big ) towards Kleber.
Keep Powell as expiring for a trade maybe. Otherwise he is insurance if Turner is injured.
Guys expendable/out: THJ (traded), Burke, Chriss (not needed anymore), Sterling Brown.
Guys in: Turner, Jalen Smith
Maybe someone needs a big in Powell, and you can turn him into another wing. Or use the TPE on a wing.
I think Kleber is ultra important. I am not convinced the Mavs beat the Suns with Turner instead of Kleber. Kleber ability to guard Booker/CP3 after getting a switch was basically one of the keys on defense in the series. Majority of Booker's/CP3 offense is getting a switch on the big, and cooking em. That didn't really work, because Kleber is too good on the perimeter.
I kinda see Green as semi important, if you can't get another wing. Otherwise the pressure on DFS/Bullock goes up even more if you trade Green. Frank had too much injury problems in the past.
Your first paragraph sums up my position.
Man, when did Turner become this slow plodding big that you guys keep talking about? The fact he’s at the top end of that pnr defense chart says he’s far from that. Gobert too, these are guys that have been consistently at the top of blocks per game. You don’t do that if you are slow. He might not be AS switchable as Maxi (then again, he hasn’t been far enough from his last injury to say “that is him” for a long time. For those asking, it’s been foot issues, that is the only reason I’m hesitant with acquiring him.), I don’t know (he’s more switchable than bad back Maxi, that’s for sure).
I would trade Maxi for him for sure, but I’d much rather have him AND Maxi to take up all the playoff C minutes. I would want to do THJ and either Frank or Green plus the 26 for Turner. I would prefer a trade for Turner that involves Powell, but I think that ship might have sailed (and may have never docked).
(06-05-2022, 10:42 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I would trade Maxi for him for sure, but I’d much rather have him AND Maxi to take up all the playoff C minutes. I would want to do THJ and either Frank or Green plus the 26 for Turner. I would prefer a trade for Turner that involves Powell, but I think that ship might have sailed (and may have never docked).
I wouldn't include Maxi. Dallas needs to be adding to the playoff rotation rather than shuffling pieces around. Is Turner better? Sure, when healthy. But if Indiana is rebuilding they don't have much use for Maxi on the court anyway.
In terms of Powell vs. THJ, I believe they would value Powell's expiring more. Unless they want to go the OKC route and take on a bad contract that they might be able to flip in a year or two for a pick.
In any case, there are likely multiple teams that could outbid any offer from the Mavs. It's going to come down to Turner himself. If he wants to be in Dallas, he can probably force his way here by refusing extensions from anyone else. In that situation Dallas can and should play hardball in trade negotiations. If Turner is willing to extend with Indiana or whoever he is auctioned off to, Mavs have very little chance.
(06-05-2022, 11:25 AM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn't include Maxi. Dallas needs to be adding to the playoff rotation rather than shuffling pieces around. Is Turner better? Sure, when healthy. But if Indiana is rebuilding they don't have much use for Maxi on the court anyway.
In terms of Powell vs. THJ, I believe they would value Powell's expiring more. Unless they want to go the OKC route and take on a bad contract that they might be able to flip in a year or two for a pick.
In any case, there are likely multiple teams that could outbid any offer from the Mavs. It's going to come down to Turner himself. If he wants to be in Dallas, he can probably force his way here by refusing extensions from anyone else. In that situation Dallas can and should play hardball in trade negotiations. If Turner is willing to extend with Indiana or whoever he is auctioned off to, Mavs have very little chance.
Maxi has just as much injury concern come playoff time. In our 3 years making it to the postseason, he’s been fully healthy for this year. First year he injured his back halfway through the playoffs. That makes him healthy for 1.5 years and not for 1.5 years. I’d trade him for a younger upgrade for sure. Not sure why you can’t see it that way.
I didn’t say I prefer it, just that an upgrade is an upgrade. I don’t fully know why Ind would insist on it either (other than without Turner, they turn into a C poor team and Maxi is a good workhorse example that can play well in games who already has familiarity with the coach and can help a growing team grow).
I don’t disagree with anything else you said.
G: Jalen Brunson | Cory Joseph
G: Luka Doncic | Spencer Dinwiddie
W: Reggie Bullock | Josh Green | Theo Pinson
W: Dorian Finney-Smith | Otto Porter Jr. | Jake LaRavia | Davis Bertans
C: Kelly Olynyk | Maxi Kleber | Dwight Powell | Boban Marjanovic
DRAFT: Jake LaRavia (pick 26)
TRADE: Tim Hardaway Jr. & Trey Burke Kelly Olynyk & Cory Joseph (DET)
FREE AGENCY: Otto Porter Jr. (Tax-payer exception)
CUTS: Frank Ntilikina, Sterling Brown, & Marquese Chriss
(06-05-2022, 04:48 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: [ -> ]G: Jalen Brunson | Cory Joseph
G: Luka Doncic | Spencer Dinwiddie
W: Reggie Bullock | Josh Green | Theo Pinson
W: Dorian Finney-Smith | Otto Porter Jr. | Jake LaRavia | Davis Bertans
C: Kelly Olynyk | Maxi Kleber | Dwight Powell | Boban Marjanovic
DRAFT: Jake LaRavia (pick 26)
TRADE: Tim Hardaway Jr. & Trey Burke Kelly Olynyk & Cory Joseph (DET)
FREE AGENCY: Otto Porter Jr. (Tax-payer exception)
CUTS: Frank Ntilikina, Sterling Brown, & Marquese Chriss
I'm fine with the draft. I don't mind Olynyk as a backup 5, but not keen on him as a starter (especially if it costs THJ). No rim protection to speak of there. Would rather trade a 2nd round pick for Muscala who is a better shooter and defender at 1/4 the cost.
Otto would be nice if he were reliable. He's always going to have foot problems though. I could see them becoming way too dependent on Green and the rookie.
Cutting Frank for Pinson would drive me a little nuts too, although it might be realistic.
(06-05-2022, 05:17 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]I'm fine with the draft. I don't mind Olynyk as a backup 5, but not keen on him as a starter (especially if it costs THJ). No rim protection to speak of there. Would rather trade a 2nd round pick for Muscala who is a better shooter and defender at 1/4 the cost.
Otto would be nice if he were reliable. He's always going to have foot problems though. I could see them becoming way too dependent on Green and the rookie.
Cutting Frank for Pinson would drive me a little nuts too, although it might be realistic.
Think these are fair criticisms. I just have a hard time believing that Nico and Kidd will want to start the season with Hardaway AND Dinwiddie - we know who showed that they fit in the system (and also who didn’t). Has Muscala ever played in a playoff game? I don’t love Olynyk, but I think he can do a little more offensively than Kleber and just a little less defensively.
Think with the exception, it’s going to be tough to find a player without major question marks. You grab LaRavia in the draft as short term insurance behind Porter and the long term answer.
Cutting Frank is more about his contract being non-guaranteed. You can think of Cory Joseph as the actual replacement and Theo as the replacement for Sterling Brown.
Just throwing a scenario out there that I think is realistic.
(06-05-2022, 08:45 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: [ -> ]Think these are fair criticisms. I just have a hard time believing that Nico and Kidd will want to start the season with Hardaway AND Dinwiddie - we know who showed that they fit in the system (and also who didn’t). Has Muscala ever played in a playoff game? I don’t love Olynyk, but I think he can do a little more offensively than Kleber and just a little less defensively.
Think with the exception, it’s going to be tough to find a player without major question marks. You grab LaRavia in the draft as short term insurance behind Porter and the long term answer.
Cutting Frank is more about his contract being non-guaranteed. You can think of Cory Joseph as the actual replacement and Theo as the replacement for Sterling Brown.
Just throwing a scenario out there that I think is realistic.
Offensively I think Dinwiddie and THJ could play well off of each other. Defense may be another story, but I do expect the Mavs to give it a shot. If nothing else they may be able to restore some of THJ's trade value before dealing him.
Most of Muscala's playoff minutes were either garbage time or brief cameos earlier in his career. Olynyk certainly has a better track record if you're looking for a big minute player, so I guess that does make more sense if he needs to start. I don't know that much about Cory Joseph. He did shoot the ball pretty well last year so he might be a decent offensive upgrade. Surely not going to be as disruptive as Frank on the other end though.
So overall not the way I would approach it...but I'll agree it's more realistic than a lot of the proposals I've seen.
(06-05-2022, 08:45 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: [ -> ]Think these are fair criticisms. I just have a hard time believing that Nico and Kidd will want to start the season with Hardaway AND Dinwiddie - we know who showed that they fit in the system (and also who didn’t). Has Muscala ever played in a playoff game? I don’t love Olynyk, but I think he can do a little more offensively than Kleber and just a little less defensively.
Think with the exception, it’s going to be tough to find a player without major question marks. You grab LaRavia in the draft as short term insurance behind Porter and the long term answer.
Cutting Frank is more about his contract being non-guaranteed. You can think of Cory Joseph as the actual replacement and Theo as the replacement for Sterling Brown.
Just throwing a scenario out there that I think is realistic.
I will not be surprised at all if the Mavs start the season with Hardaway and Din. I would be more surprised to see them end the season with both. If they do send out THJ for a center, it needs to be a starter that can rim protect and rebound better than Powell. Olynyk doesn't really meet any of those criteria. I suppose Cory is an upgrade over Burke, but not really enough to move the needle. I don't see him getting significant minutes in the playoffs.
If that is what we are looking at in a THJ trade, then I would rather just hold onto him. It would not be the end of the world to run it back while taking BPA in the draft and BPA center depth with the MLE (and cut Brown and Burke). Then make a move at the TDL if necessary.
(06-05-2022, 05:17 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]I'm fine with the draft. I don't mind Olynyk as a backup 5, but not keen on him as a starter (especially if it costs THJ). No rim protection to speak of there. Would rather trade a 2nd round pick for Muscala who is a better shooter and defender at 1/4 the cost.
Otto would be nice if he were reliable. He's always going to have foot problems though. I could see them becoming way too dependent on Green and the rookie.
Cutting Frank for Pinson would drive me a little nuts too, although it might be realistic.
You don´t need to trade anything for Muscala, cause the Thunder will just waive him. He has a team option for next season. They have 15 players under contract already with three first round picks coming up.
Also why trade for such a player, when you can just sign somebody like Thomas Bryant in free agency, who does all the same things?
Would love to know whether the Mavs even inquired about him in the Porzingis trade. Seems such a no brainer move for us. I doubt it would have been a deal breaker for Washington, cause they´ll definitely lose him for nothing this summer.
I´m with you on Pinson. It would be good publicity for this corporate mess to sign a male cheerleader, cause that´s what he is.
I keep coming back to the Clippers. I am not fully comfortable with Hartlestein because I just haven't seen him enough. But him or Zubac could be targets depending on which one the Clippers prefer.
I also like Batum but he will be able to get more with the Clippers if they want him. And I also have interest in Marcus Morris. Although I am not sure how a trade would work there. He has this year and next year at 16-17 million. I know not many are fans of his, but he would fit in well here. I am just not sure what the trade would be. It would be something where we would not give up anything of value. I wouldn't think there would be a ton of suiters for him at his contract.
is there a wing version available this summer in the Derrick White type of talent? The trade Boston made was Josh Richardson (expiring after this year), Romeo Langford (former first round pick who has another year on his contract before a decision on a QO needs to be made), First round pick in this years draft (pick # 25) and a future pick swap. White I don't think will be a starter for Boston. After an up and down start after the trade, he has played really well late in the playoffs.
So for sake of argument we would be including Dwight Powell, Josh Green, pick # 26 and a future pick swap. Green would hurt the most but just for comparison he is included.
Is there a player out there who fits the White level talent as a wing? Is that type of offer too rich?
White is not really a wing...he's more of a PG/SG hybrid, similar to Dinwiddie. And Dinwiddie actually was better in the playoffs
(06-06-2022, 10:37 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]I keep coming back to the Clippers. I am not fully comfortable with Hartlestein because I just haven't seen him enough. But him or Zubac could be targets depending on which one the Clippers prefer.
I also like Batum but he will be able to get more with the Clippers if they want him. And I also have interest in Marcus Morris. Although I am not sure how a trade would work there. He has this year and next year at 16-17 million. I know not many are fans of his, but he would fit in well here. I am just not sure what the trade would be. It would be something where we would not give up anything of value. I wouldn't think there would be a ton of suiters for him at his contract.
I think Hartenstein would be a target regardless of who the Clippers prefer. I think we can pay more for him (tax MLE) than the Clippers can. I don't think Zubac is an option as they can pay him.
Batum has a player option. If he turns it down I think the tax MLE would be more than they can pay for him. The ship may have sailed on him. The Clips could only pay him 3 million last year. I assume he got offers better than that (most exceptions are better than that) but he chose to stay there. Not sure we can pry him away now.
Don't get the interest in Morris. He might have been a fit years ago, but his defense has completely tanked the last two years and he will be 33. That contract is not much better than Bertans.
Of the three my preference would be Hartenstein as he is young with some upside, has the Germany connection, and fits our position most in need.
(06-06-2022, 11:18 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]is there a wing version available this summer in the Derrick White type of talent? The trade Boston made was Josh Richardson (expiring after this year), Romeo Langford (former first round pick who has another year on his contract before a decision on a QO needs to be made), First round pick in this years draft (pick # 25) and a future pick swap. White I don't think will be a starter for Boston. After an up and down start after the trade, he has played really well late in the playoffs.
So for sake of argument we would be including Dwight Powell, Josh Green, pick # 26 and a future pick swap. Green would hurt the most but just for comparison he is included.
Is there a player out there who fits the White level talent as a wing? Is that type of offer too rich?
I was trying to make KP trades to get White on the team, I like him a lot. I think of him as a Jrue-lite player. I would love to get him here. Since he wax recently traded, I’ve not thought of him much at all, but would for sure look to get him from Boston if they were looking to move on from him. He’s as much a wing as THJ is, so there’s that. Another fav of mine that is like him is Dillon Brooks. I’ve been pretty clear on wanting him too. Mann is another similar player.
(06-06-2022, 12:36 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I think Hartenstein would be a target regardless of who the Clippers prefer. I think we can pay more for him (tax MLE) than the Clippers can. I don't think Zubac is an option as they can pay him.
Batum has a player option. If he turns it down I think the tax MLE would be more than they can pay for him. The ship may have sailed on him. The Clips could only pay him 3 million last year. I assume he got offers better than that (most exceptions are better than that) but he chose to stay there. Not sure we can pry him away now.
Don't get the interest in Morris. He might have been a fit years ago, but his defense has completely tanked the last two years and he will be 33. That contract is not much better than Bertans.
Of the three my preference would be Hartenstein as he is young with some upside, has the Germany connection, and fits our position most in need.
I agree that the Clippers have some talent that might work in DAL. I think the biggest hurdle is ring chasing.
I'm sure if both George and Kawhi are returning to start next season, then there are those who think they have a premiere chance to make the finals. If so, you may find some of the LAC free agents signing short term bargain deals so they can be on a title-favorite team.
FWIW, I think Morris is going to be an enforcer type player for the next few years. Someone who is willing to make the hard foul or the shady play to help his team. That's what will extend his career, especially on a team where his offense isn't required.