(11-30-2021, 03:13 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]This team needs a trade and needs it bad.
Kinda sick and tired of seeing the same 10 guys the last 3 years around Luka.
A trade isn't going to fix this. This team needs a rebuild and that's going to require us to learn how to draft.
(11-30-2021, 04:49 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]A trade isn't going to fix this. This team needs a rebuild and that's going to require us to learn how to draft.
Disagree.
Obviously if the Mavs move KP that would be a monumental change.
But let's say they don't do it.
Any chance Detroit gives up Grant + Hayes? Pistons reportedly wanted to give THJ more money than the Mavs and Hayes currently looks like a JAG and will always be second fiddle to another young PG in Cunningham. So would a THJ+Burke+Green+Moses+2nds work?
Obviously including Brunson will even up matters with the trade, but the Pistons have Cunningham, so unless a third team is involved, JB won't be part of Pistons trade.
Personally, I'd even go for Hayes only (without Grant). He is going to be good, I just don't think he'd have opportunities with Detroit. This may look like a small move for the Mavs, but Hayes could turn out to be another Frankie. A better one actually.
Just not sure how the Mavs can trade for him, but IMHo he is very gettable right now, and it won't remain that way soon.
(11-30-2021, 06:08 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]Any chance Detroit gives up Grant + Hayes? Pistons reportedly wanted to give THJ more money than the Mavs and Hayes currently looks like a JAG and will always be second fiddle to another young PG in Cunningham. So would a THJ+Burke+Green+Moses+2nds work?
I think Grant should be one of key targets for Mavs. I think it was NO that wanted to pay more to THJ, not sure about Detroit. In any case, I don't think Detroit would be willing to part with their best player for a bunch of underperforming overpaid Mavs players (based on their current play) and a couple of second rounders. I think the price would include at least two protected FRP. That means before putting Hayes into discussion. My offer would be Bullock, Powell and 2 FRP. They can have Moses and Green too, if they want. Mavs don't seem to want to develop them anyway.
I fail to see the Hayes part. He has been given all the opportunity he could get and really delivered a substandard performance. I am not sure a team that considers themselves as contenders will have the patience to wait for him. We already have Ntilikina in that reclamation back up PG spot.
Edit: Grant. This is a prime example of recruiting, imho. Convince him that he wants to go to Dallas (which of course means leave Detroit) and I am sure a deal with Detroit can be made. I am quite confident they will listen to his wishes, as long as Dallas can come up with a reasonable offer.
(11-30-2021, 06:08 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]Hayes could turn out to be another Frankie.
Definitely still on the Hayes train!
(11-29-2021, 07:02 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Caruso is my litmus test for the contract and I wouldn't pay Jalen more than him. Jalen's a better scorer, Caruso has a better all-around game and doesn't come with the same athletic limitations. MBT have had a really bad habit of overpaying rotational guys (Powell, WCS, Bullock) and they need to buck that trend.
Brunson is in a completely different league than your rotational examples (Powell, WCS, Bullock). I agree all of those guys are overpaid, and you can make the argument that THJ is overpaid, but he is a better comparison to Brunson than those guys.
Caruso is an interesting comp. He is the opposite of Brunson in that he is a net negative on the court offensively but very good defensively. I would have been happy to pay him the MLE (made more sense than Bullock). I'm not sure that Caruso has a better overall game. Brunson is a better scorer, self creator, distributor and rebounder. The only thing Caruso is better at is defense. And the reality is this league pays for offense more than defense.
(11-30-2021, 04:49 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]A trade isn't going to fix this. This team needs a rebuild and that's going to require us to learn how to draft.
What scenario do you see where this team relies on drafting to improve and holds onto Luka?
(11-30-2021, 09:17 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Caruso is an interesting comp. He is the opposite of Brunson in that he is a net negative on the court offensively but very good defensively.
This year the Bulls are +5.6 offensively when AC plays.
New York is one clear option to hunt JB, since it looks like the Walker experiment ended already. Unless one convinces himself in Irving, Brunson is arguably best PG available in 2022. They have 114.5 mil of salaries for next season (however 5 mil of that is non guaranteed Gibson). If they dump Walker and his 9 mil they get to respectable roughly 15 mil of cap space. A number good enough for a Brunson discussion.
(11-30-2021, 09:25 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]What scenario do you see where this team relies on drafting to improve and holds onto Luka?
I don't. Even when Luka demands a trade, Cuban will look for players instead of draft assets. His hate of losing and impatience limits his ability to win. It's why the KP move was a bad idea because if the trade was a miss (and it certainly is leaning heavily towards that) it killed any flexibility to course correct.
(11-30-2021, 09:17 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Brunson is in a completely different league than your rotational examples (Powell, WCS, Bullock). I agree all of those guys are overpaid, and you can make the argument that THJ is overpaid, but he is a better comparison to Brunson than those guys.
Caruso is an interesting comp. He is the opposite of Brunson in that he is a net negative on the court offensively but very good defensively. I would have been happy to pay him the MLE (made more sense than Bullock). I'm not sure that Caruso has a better overall game. Brunson is a better scorer, self creator, distributor and rebounder. The only thing Caruso is better at is defense. And the reality is this league pays for offense more than defense.
I wasn't comparing Brunson to Powell, WCS or Bullock, just stating that we overpaid each of them to varying degrees. And while Brunson is better than any of them, he's also no a starter in my estimation.
(11-30-2021, 09:35 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]This year the Bulls are +5.6 offensively when AC plays.
A small sample that is missing tons of context. His OBPM is -1, which is an improvement for him but still below average. If you want to look at on/off at this small of a sample, you are probably better off with something that includes a lot more context. EPM is apparently the best available public advanced plus/minus stat, and it also has him at roughly -1.
(11-30-2021, 12:43 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]A small sample that is missing tons of context. His OBPM is -1, which is an improvement for him but still below average. If you want to look at on/off at this small of a sample, you are probably better off with something that includes a lot more context. EPM is apparently the best available public advanced plus/minus stat, and it also has him at roughly -1.
He is +2.0 in offensive RAPTOR which ranks 55th in the NBA.
(11-30-2021, 12:27 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I don't. Even when Luka demands a trade, Cuban will look for players instead of draft assets. His hate of losing and impatience limits his ability to win. It's why the KP move was a bad idea because if the trade was a miss (and it certainly is leaning heavily towards that) it killed any flexibility to course correct.
I can see the dislike for the KP move (especially in hindsight) but on the other hand, when you have an organization that has a terrible history in free agency and a generally poor history in developing through the draft, its hard not to pull the trigger on a potential star for 2 firsts and salary dump, even with a few red flags. The real problem is that Cuban does not understand his strengths and weaknesses. Instead of hoarding cap space that he has never been able to use effectively, he should have been accumulating assets for trades, which he sometimes gets right. I'm more disappointed in the last three years of failure than the KP trade.
Two things, I have no proof of this but I strongly believe the plan for this offseason if Lowry didn't come here was to get a 3 and D wing and then sign Dragic. Dallas had to believe if they did not get Lowry, he was going to Miami and that would mean Dragic's option would not be picked up. I think they were left scrambling, once again, when it was and Toronto accepted him in a trade. Bullock may have been the first option, or he could have been the one who said yes. Danny Green, Batum, Bobby Portis (not a 3 and D) were all names they were probably sniffing around. Then Maybe you add a big man with any money left over. I just think they were caught with their pants down a little.
I said all offseason, I wanted players who played with force. Big guys who can do things near the rim and players who could get to the rim and cause defense fits. That would have been my focus. Until they add this, I don't have much hope with this team. Sure, they will eventually shoot better (I hope), but we saw how far this takes us. Not far and you have no hope when you can't shoot. Add 2 players who play with force (with Luka) and the three pointers will go down at a better percentage...I promise.
(11-30-2021, 10:52 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]New York is one clear option to hunt JB, since it looks like the Walker experiment ended already. Unless one convinces himself in Irving, Brunson is arguably best PG available in 2022. They have 114.5 mil of salaries for next season (however 5 mil of that is non guaranteed Gibson). If they dump Walker and his 9 mil they get to respectable roughly 15 mil of cap space. A number good enough for a Brunson discussion.
This would be the biggest concern. Having Brunson walk for 15 mil and us getting nothing out of it would be a disaster for a team that has so few options.
Hard to argue that Caruso has been a net negative on offense this season. Even if we ignore +/- based metrics.
4.2ast vs 1.4tov (3:1 ratio)
58.4 % TS (+3.3% rTS)
I don´t think the Brunson comparisation makes sense. Completly different players. Caruso more off ball and not nearly as good of a shot creator. But in his given role (basically what we would have liked to see from Bullock, Richardson, Wright) his offense is a net positive.
(11-30-2021, 01:27 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]This would be the biggest concern. Having Brunson walk for 15 mil and us getting nothing out of it would be a disaster for a team that has so few options.
Yeah, I wanted to point out that cap space can be made very quickly and that it is not just those four losing teams that can flash it.
Edit: If I am Mavs and I don't have a very firm handshake agreement that Brunson is staying, I would be definitely looking very hard for a move at TDL. Not necessarily openly shopping him but throw him in as an asset who makes a trade I want. Player like Grant. I think this TDL will be extremely important for Mavs. Unless of course Cuban is perfectly comfortable paying huge tax for this team. Than Mavs are fine.
(11-30-2021, 01:26 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ] I just think they were caught with their pants down a little.
I think you are correct. Old/New MBT transition left everything in the lurch for a short offseason. Plus the lack of any draft participation eliminated an important source of new blood.
On top of the fiasco that was the Green/Terry/Bey draft, there has been a shortage of fresh air here. I'm all for letting the components cook together and see how the team functions, but when the same ingredients are getting stale from sitting around too long, it's time to get new ones.
I'm hoping they get their feet set and prepare for this year's TDL and offseason. DAL has almost reached the 20 game mark and nobody is getting excited about the possibilities of this crew.
(11-30-2021, 01:50 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Hard to argue that Caruso has been a net negative on offense this season. Even if we ignore +/- based metrics.
4.2ast vs 1.4tov (3:1 ratio)
58.4 % TS (+3.3% rTS)
I don´t think the Brunson comparisation makes sense. Completly different players. Caruso more off ball and not nearly as good of a shot creator. But in his given role (basically what we would have liked to see from Bullock, Richardson, Wright) his offense is a net positive.
I mean comparing him to Bullock this year or JRich last year is a low bar. He is clearly playing better offensively then that right now. My original comment was based on his career (not a 20 game sample) and comparing him to an average NBA player. I do find it interesting that the best advanced box score stat (which is looking at the same numbers as you are showing) considers him below average this year. I would be perfectly fine with that offensive production given the defense he provides. My guess is that it is due to the lack of volume. Efficiency is important, but if a guy rarely takes shots his value is going to be limited. Personally I would rather have a low volume high efficient scorer than an inefficient chucker, but somebody has to take shots.
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