This team needs more talent.
Thinking about Maxi...
Is he worth his $9.225M next year? Would the Mavs be better off not guaranteeing his deal for next year (does that get you more financial flexibility with the "apron"?)? Do you guarantee it and trade him? Or is he worth holding on to?
(04-03-2022, 02:42 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Thinking about Maxi...
Is he worth his $9.225M next year? Would the Mavs be better off not guaranteeing his deal for next year (does that get you more financial flexibility with the "apron"?)? Do you guarantee it and trade him? Or is he worth holding on to?
I don't mind trading him for an upgrade of course. I wouldn't waive him though. Some of his struggles seem to be mental, but I wonder if fatigue from playing as the lone big is part of it as well. We all knew he couldn't handle a heavy workload and needed to be protected to some extent. That hasn't been possible since the trade. I think he could bounce back next year if he returns to his role as the backup 4.
(04-03-2022, 02:42 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Thinking about Maxi...
Is he worth his $9.225M next year? Would the Mavs be better off not guaranteeing his deal for next year (does that get you more financial flexibility with the "apron"?)? Do you guarantee it and trade him? Or is he worth holding on to?
Is he worth his $9.225M next year?
Yes, definitely. He's MLE signing if a free agent, more than his current salary so making him very good trade asset if you don't want him.
Would the Mavs be better off not guaranteeing his deal for next year (does that get you more financial flexibility with the "apron"?)?
If you waived him, you would have less salary. Obviously. But assuming you expect JB to be signed, no benefit for the loss of salary. You create no cap room by waiving him, you just lower tax bill. So makes no sense to do so imo.
I suspect the Mavs aren't even wasting a minute on "do we want to waive Maxi?"
(04-03-2022, 03:12 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Is he worth his $9.225M next year?
Yes, definitely.
Thanks for the response.
The above part is where I am personally not feeling very clear. I don't think MK has been a MLE level player this year. He is so up and down and inconsistent. Sometimes he is an All-NBA level defender....sometimes a liability. Sometimes he is a floor spacer....sometimes his man never guards him and things get clogged up.
Keeping him and his salary MIGHT be the smart thing to do. But me personally? I don't think he is a $9M player.
(04-03-2022, 04:17 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for the response.
The above part is where I am personally not feeling very clear. I don't think MK has been a MLE level player this year. He is so up and down and inconsistent. Sometimes he is an All-NBA level defender....sometimes a liability. Sometimes he is a floor spacer....sometimes his man never guards him and things get clogged up.
Keeping him and his salary MIGHT be the smart thing to do. But me personally? I don't think he is a $9M player.
When has Maxi ever been a liability defensively? He has been our best defender all year, and after the trade the only guy that can protect the rim. He is in a bad slump right now offensively, but that defense is not easy to replace. Seems crazy to me that you seem happy to spend 17 mil on Bertans, but are questioning paying Maxi 9 mil.
(04-03-2022, 04:17 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for the response.
The above part is where I am personally not feeling very clear. I don't think MK has been a MLE level player this year. He is so up and down and inconsistent. Sometimes he is an All-NBA level defender....sometimes a liability. Sometimes he is a floor spacer....sometimes his man never guards him and things get clogged up.
Keeping him and his salary MIGHT be the smart thing to do. But me personally? I don't think he is a $9M player.
I think your expectations for what you get with MLE is amiss. Playing all-league defense, and being a big who is consistent 40% from the arc, is the standard that he doesn't always meet. No argument. But the C/PF that can do that consistently won't be on the MLE shelf - aren't you paying double the MLE (or more) to get an elite two-way big 3-and-D guy?
But it's not even about the MLE. If you waive Maxi as you propose, you get nothing in return, so do you think you can replace him with someone BETTER (and available this summer)
for the minimum? I think you can get
someone, but someone who will be even less consistent and have lower upside.
I have high regard for you fellas and your insights. But this is how the page above reads to my ears:
You know that one guy on the team that can actually defend the rim? Yeah, the only big on the bench and one of just two in the rotation? Yeah, him. We should probably just waive him, right?
(04-03-2022, 08:10 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]You know that one guy on the team that can actually defend the rim? Yeah, the only big on the bench and one of just two in the rotation? Yeah, him. We should probably just waive him, right?
1) I never suggested he be waived (as if that was my desire). I asked whether that could make sense. It was a question.
2) I personally don't think MK is playing like a $9M player. Maybe a $4.5M player, maybe. He is shooting 32.5% from three, has not been durable, and his rim protection IMO is overstated. Yes, he gets some great blocks, but he is NOT a deterrent like a real "rim protector" is.
3) I am not suggesting moving on from right NOW with the roster as constructed. I am thinking about this offseason and how he fits into the plans.
4) My opinion is that the Mavs trade him in the offseason and retool their big man situation.
Kamm you are doing exactly what you claim you aren't - dissing on Maxi and arguing WHY you think he's not worth his contract and should be waived in June. While introduced as a question, you argue for one side, so it's more an intro to your POV than an idle question.
Also your push back on the timing of a waiver is straw-manning my points (and perhaps those of others), to pretend that the objections to a waiver are about an inability to replace him in today's moment. Please stop that. You want him waived in June ("not guaranteed" is the way you term it) and if you do that, how do you replace him in July with no cap room? You don't. Please speak to THAT rather than deflecting to a straw man.
(04-03-2022, 08:51 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]4) My opinion is that the Mavs trade him in the offseason and retool their big man situation.
The ABOVE is my opinion on the subject.
Let me be clear:
I DO NOT WANT MAXI WAIVED.
I can see an argument for waiving him (but it is NOT my position). I can see an argument for keeping him into next season (but it is NOT my position). If I were GM I would look to TRADE Maxi this summer and retool the big man situation.
(04-03-2022, 10:40 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Also your push back on the timing of a waiver is straw-manning my points (and perhaps those of others), to pretend that the objections to a waiver are about an inability to replace him in today's moment. Please stop that. You want him waived in June ("not guaranteed" is the way you term it) and if you do that, how do you replace him in July with no cap room? You don't. Please speak to THAT rather than deflecting to a straw man.
Can you please point me to my words that have expressed I personally WANT Maxi to be waived?
I do not want Maxi waived. I asked three questions about his future: 1) Do you waive him? 2) Do you guarantee him and trade him? 3) Do you guarantee him and keep him?
I was curious on opinions. My opinion is NUMBER TWO. I would guarantee him and trade him as I do not think he is worth $9M. But I do not and have never suggested to waive him and lose him for nothing. That is not my position.
Also, I have never at any point pretended to put forward YOUR position on the subject. I cannot be "straw-manning" you if I am not suggesting anything about what you have said.
I’m sorry for my part in turning this thread into argument. I appreciate the thinking behind the question. I like Maximillian and would be sad to see him go. But I understand the notion that he (like anyone else) maybe could/should be traded for a better player.
Here’s the thing though. I think the Mavs need to ADD a big. So trading M would mean (in my mind) needing to add TWO bigs. And since Kidd’s bigs have to be able to switch and defend guards on the perimeter, I don’t see how we could possibly pull off finding and landing 2 of em in just 1 summer.
Okay Kamm, got it. You think the Mavs should trade Maxi. It's really just an idle trade idea, where the desirability becomes entwined with who you might get back.
My opinion would be highly dependent on what happens between now and June.
But, assuming no debilitating change physically, the question of whether to "not guarantee" Maxi only serves to muddle that simple trade question, since it's such an obvious non-starter.
(04-03-2022, 11:19 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]I think the Mavs need to ADD a big.
I assume you mean "another big who will contribute." While I understand this thinking, I don't see how 5 centers is a good plan. It's terribly unbalanced roster management - you need to have enough players to amply cover the other 4 positions on the court.
It also isn't very realistic to have 3 guys who are good enough to play 20-30 mpg, all splitting the minutes at one position. That's not how the league works (it's very player-driven). Not how the money fits into practical cap management, either.
(04-04-2022, 12:34 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I assume you mean "another big who will contribute." While I understand this thinking, I don't see how 5 centers is a good plan. It's terribly unbalanced roster management - you need to have enough players to amply cover the other 4 positions on the court.
It also isn't very realistic to have 3 guys who are good enough to play 20-30 mpg, all splitting the minutes at one position. That's not how the league works (it's very player-driven). Not how the money fits into practical cap management, either.
Right now we only have 2 bigs (4/5) that significantly contribute, and both are probably most effective coming off the bench. Boban is a cheerleader and Chriss is a recent 2-way who is not playing well enough right now to even be worth the min.
I would argue we could easily add a starting center to this group. Powell would be the backup 5 and Maxi the backup 4 (and also third center). Those two play really well together. DFS would likely be your starting (and closing) 4, but he can also play the 3 to accommodate more minutes for Maxi or Bertans.
We could also trade one of Maxi/Powell for a true starter at the 5 and be better off as well, but I don't think its necessary. I am certainly not looking at Boban or Chriss at all when making roster decisions regarding my top 8-10 guys who actually play.
They will definitely try to upgrade the front court in the offseason. No team would be willing to go with just Powell and Kleber but at this point, they have no choice and have to make the most out of it.
I think it will be easier for teams to exploit that weakness in a 7-game series, even in the 1st round so we will see if Kidd has the chess match ability that RC had in the playoffs.
(04-04-2022, 12:34 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I assume you mean "another big who will contribute." While I understand this thinking, I don't see how 5 centers is a good plan. It's terribly unbalanced roster management - you need to have enough players to amply cover the other 4 positions on the court.
It also isn't very realistic to have 3 guys who are good enough to play 20-30 mpg, all splitting the minutes at one position. That's not how the league works (it's very player-driven). Not how the money fits into practical cap management, either.
Ha! What else would I mean? We need a taller Pinson?
I think Chriss is a fabulous long-term project. I doubt he helps any this year. But maybe he’s the 3rd big in next year’s rotation? Maybe. I like Bertans more than most. (Not as much as Kam does, but close.) I just don’t think he’s a big. I have given up on Boban getting off the bench. So he doesn’t count at all, in my mind.
More importantly, I think we’re loaded at the other positions already.
Guards: Brunson, Dinwidde, Green, Hardaway
Forwards: Doncic, Finney-Smith, Bullock, Bertans
I don’t see a realist opportunity to improve significantly at guard or forward. Not unless LeBron wants to play a supporting role on team Luka. And having the flexibility to go big with Maxi and DFS at the forward spots seems really valuable.
This team is very good. Our front court could use an infusion of talent at this point but right now this group is playing at a level as high as anyone in the league. Sometimes this team has some issues getting up for games that are against lesser opponents but we can't ignore how this team has performed when the stakes are high.
Still interesting to see so many folks with some negative outlooks but as of right now I can't help but ask myself "why not us?" when it comes to getting out of the western conference this year.
(04-04-2022, 11:15 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Right now we only have 2 bigs (4/5) that significantly contribute, and both are probably most effective coming off the bench. Boban is a cheerleader and Chriss is a recent 2-way who is not playing well enough right now to even be worth the min.
I would argue we could easily add a starting center to this group. Powell would be the backup 5 and Maxi the backup 4 (and also third center). Those two play really well together. DFS would likely be your starting (and closing) 4, but he can also play the 3 to accommodate more minutes for Maxi or Bertans.
We could also trade one of Maxi/Powell for a true starter at the 5 and be better off as well, but I don't think its necessary. I am certainly not looking at Boban or Chriss at all when making roster decisions regarding my top 8-10 guys who actually play.
I get that they could find ways to squeeze in another high-minutes center somehow. But as I see it
1 in so doing you are
planning to move a center to play another position, and then play him and others in positions that are not their best,
2 iow you have put yourself in a box,
planning to have players playing out of position, which is going to lower your ceiling, and
3 in a perimeter- oriented league, you will suffer in the ability to defend in space when playing multiple centers, which you have forced yourself to do
I also think the "add-a-center" thinking is going to be counter-productive cap-wise, because you're going to be layering on a big chunk of salary cost at a position where there are lots of playable bargains to be had. Unless you have an elite player like Jokic or Embiid, it really should be your least-expensive position, not your most.