MavsBoard

(06-21-2022, 07:16 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]I don't get how SD is in there, he is the player I wanted the most and was slotting in our biggest hole.

If Dinwiddie moves, I sure hope someone who can drive the ball and score is coming back, and not just another 3&D guy. Don't get me wrong, I'd love another one of those, too, but not at the expense of Dinwiddie. 

(I can't believe how much of a flip I've done on Dinwiddie)

(06-21-2022, 07:19 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]If Dinwiddie moves, I sure hope someone who can drive the ball and score is coming back, and not just another 3&D guy. Don't get me wrong, I'd love another one of those, too, but not at the expense of Dinwiddie. 

(I can't believe how much of a flip I've done on Dinwiddie)

I think he is a good player, but looks even better for us, as he fills our biggest needs.
And he seems to also fit our defensive scheme.

(06-21-2022, 07:24 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]I think he is a good player, but looks even better for us, as he fills our biggest needs.
And he seems to also fit our defensive scheme.

Yes, people forget how big the need was, because it was filled so thoroughly. It would be great if his defense was elite, but...that's an all star. 

The thing I'm so impressed by is his size and physicality. He's REALLY good at causing fearless, physical contact and still getting reasonable shots up in or near the paint. In this system, with a training camp, he's going to get to the line, like a lot. As great as Brunson is, Dinwiddie provides a whole different dynamic. I think there are levels to go before we reach the potential of the Luka/Bruson/Dinwiddie trio.

(06-20-2022, 09:12 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]The other reason I think there will be another big next to Wood a good bit of the time is wear and tear.  KP rarely played solo big prior to the trade.  Running a Wood/DFS front court is just inviting injury and weariness when it matters.  We can still be committed to 5-out and not run it 100% of the time.  The O with Wood added is going to be extremely dynamic no matter which spot he plays.

There is a perception that the Luka/Brunson/RB trio was somehow ordained and the only way we ever played last year.  That group didn't show up in the starting lineup until game 53.  KP sat his last couple of games here and after that we only had two real bigs on the roster in Powell and Maxi.  Up to that point, we started two-bigs almost exclusively the entire time KP was here (available or not).  Mostly it was Powell/KP, but we also saw Powell/Maxi, Maxi/KP, WCS/KP and Moses/KP.

The turnaround started about a month before the first appearance of Luka/Brunson/Reggie when Brunson joined the starting lineup.  Late December and most of January was just a mess in terms of players being healthy.  Yes, RB took THJ's place among the starters in December, but Brunson wasn't starting yet.  That happened after Brunson played well in Luka's absence and when Luka returned, Brunson stayed and Reggie sat.  

If you think about it, Wood essentially replaces KP in the big rotation.  Any time we actually had three bigs (even when all weren't available), we started two of them.  We didn't start a single big (with very few exceptions) until KP was gone.  At that point, we really didn't have a choice.  I think the plan is three bigs, three wings and three ball handlers and mix and match as appropriate.  Sometimes that will be single big two and two.  Sometimes it will be two bigs (especially in the regular season).  The question is do we have the right nine on the bus with THJ and Powell (and occasionally Dinwiddie) the players we most often question.  Is there a TP-MLE player who really knocks one of those off the bus?  Powell?  Maybe?  But, probably not THJ or SD.  One of them has to be outgoing to truly get an upgrade.  Does trading THJ right now make sense coming off of injury?  Probably not.  Does Powell/Green really move the needle without adding a pick?  What does that leave?  It means we may be wrong about the Sacred Six from the playoff run being as Sacred as we thought.

The highlights I saw of Wood made him a driver/finisher in traffic. If DFS improves  on his driving from last season, he could possibly be a gap closer from SD to CW. Going by the 2ball handlers on the court at all times, can THJ and CW be at least mostly that for them? Getting 1 more guy that is comfortable with the ball in his hands (the wing we hear they are looking for) also closes that gap, IMO.

Then we’re playing a much more versatile offensive game. One where guys are constantly driving and breaking down the defense, not just Luka, then JB, then SD. I just think it’s kindof a myopic view that because Kidd figured out that the only way the team assembled was going to do damage was to play the way they were taught to do, so that is the only way we have to play going forward.

To counter my own argument. Maybe they want both? I also agree with that. The question then becomes, since we see that Nico is still looking for trades, what is the best asset (given the current team outlook) to get another defensive ball handling wing? I’d venture to guess that of the remaining possible assets we have, SD fits that bill the best. 

The return is for sure key and it doesn’t look like Nico is in the business of giving players away anymore (one might argue that at the time of the trade without knowing how either player was going to play on our team that the KP trade was a give away) so there is no need to talk as if that would happen in my mind.

(06-21-2022, 07:53 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I think the plan is three bigs, three wings and three ball handlers and mix and match as appropriate.

Do you think MacMahon stating that a "playoff rotation wing" is the priority is accurate and truly indicative of the Mavs plans this summer?

(06-21-2022, 07:33 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, people forget how big the need was, because it was filled so thoroughly.

Do we know that they felt the need HAD to be filled with a PG, or are they just looking to get ball handlers on the roster in any form?

https://twitter.com/bleacherreport/statu...33315?s=21&t=ZW-DlYihq-mrBK8eC7osVA

Starting to get he feeling Dragic is going to be our replacement for Brunson and Cuban is going to try and sell us on Wood being the "second star" we need...

(06-21-2022, 07:59 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]The highlights I saw of Wood made him a driver/finisher in traffic. If DFS improves  on his driving from last season, he could possibly be a gap closer from SD to CW. Going by the 2ball handlers on the court at all times, can THJ and CW be at least mostly that for them? Getting 1 more guy that is comfortable with the ball in his hands (the wing we hear they are looking for) also closes that gap, IMO.

Then we’re playing a much more versatile offensive game. One where guys are constantly driving and breaking down the defense, not just Luka, then JB, then SD. I just think it’s kindof a myopic view that because Kidd figured out that the only way the team assembled was going to do damage was to play the way they were taught to do, so that is the only way we have to play going forward.

I'm not entirely sure I follow you here, so sorry if I misunderstand. It seems like you think the "your turn/my turn" is the product of too many players not able to floor the ball? 

I think teams can always use more drive-competent players, as you know. Been on that crusade since the bubble playoffs. And, I agree with your assessment of the "you go, I go" stuff. 

I just have a different opinion of what's causing that. To me, it's about Luka and Brunson both being a little green and not quiiiiiiite understanding that the ball needs to move faster, sometimes before they, personally, create an advantage. Sometimes, the timely, correct, simple pass is the right one, and I think those guys are both prone to getting stuck in the mindset of beating someone, drawing a second defender and making the "assist" pass, which is often a difficult skip pass. I think it's awesome that Luka CAN succeed in that way so often, but my suspicion is that as he ages, he'll learn to take it easier on himself by getting teammates involved earlier in possessions, and in simpler ways. 

I know there's a chance some of this issue is systemic, but I don't really worry about that because there were stretches last season (some of which happened while Luka missed time) wherein the offense functioned beautifully. Maybe they abandoned all of that in favor of "find mismatches and iso" full time in the playoffs intentionally, or maybe that's just all those guys felt comfortable doing against defenses of that caliber (on court judgments, not called from the bench). IDK, but either way, I really think it's a development/training/teaching/learning problem, not a talent problem. Just my opinion. 

The only thing that worries me about this issue long term is the pace that Luka likes to play. It's VERY slow. In that way, he's very unlike Kidd - young Kidd, at least. I wonder if that GS-level ball movement will ever be possible if 10 seconds of the shot clock are always gone by the time the first action begins. That, more than anything else, is what worries me about Luka. The maturity, barking at refs, body care...he's too much of a winner not to fix all of that as he gets older, imo. The pace, while making HIM really effective, kind of puts a ceiling on what his teammates are able to do in support, imho. 

But if I see it, then so does Kidd, of course. Hopefully, they'll find the sweet spot together.

(06-21-2022, 08:01 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Do you think MacMahon stating that a "playoff rotation wing" is the priority is accurate and truly indicative of the Mavs plans this summer?

Only if one of SD or Brunson is gone.

(06-21-2022, 08:19 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/bleacherreport/statu...33315?s=21&t=ZW-DlYihq-mrBK8eC7osVA

At some point you have to look for ways to take advantage of NYs desperation for Brunson. 

Immanual quickley, Cam Reddish, Alec Burks, Nerlens Noel, Quentin Grimes are all players I would have some level of interest in. Maybe you use a S&t to get off Bertans. Point being, dont let this dude walk out the door for nothing. If he wants to go be the starting PG with his dad and play in MSG nobody can blame him.

(06-21-2022, 08:15 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Do we know that they felt the need HAD to be filled with a PG, or are they just looking to get ball handlers on the roster in any form?

I have no idea. 

But, I'd speculate that if a forward like Paul George (just an example) had been available they'd have been all about it. It's just that "lead guard" ball-handlers are less rare, and therefore it was more likely that they could find one, I think. 

But, it's a good question, because they haven't added a forward or big yet who can handle. Is it just that they're super hard to come by (they are) or is the system they run leading them towards always having the ball dominated by guards? I'm not sure, but either way, I think Dinwiddie and Luka both have uncommon size and physicality for guards, so I think both could qualify as "point forwards" in the right light. Play them between someone like Ntilikina (if only he could shoot) and DFS and boom - you can kind of see the Clippers if you squint hard enough. Luka and Diwniddie will probably never defend the way KL and PG do, but you get my point. 

To your point earlier, I do have a feeling CW can floor the ball and do some of the things we all wanted KP to do. I'm hopeful, at least. So, I think this trade gets them closer to what you're wanting to see, skills wise. It's really just up to CW (and Luka) to come in with the mindset of working together, I think.

(06-21-2022, 08:31 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Only if one of SD or Brunson is gone.

Do you think the Mavs have a sense that one of them IS going to be gone?

(06-21-2022, 07:53 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I think the plan is three bigs, three wings and three ball handlers and mix and match as appropriate.

I agree with this. 

I just think the 3rd big is destined to be the 9th guy on that pecking order, and in the playoffs maybe a wing leap-frogs him into the 9th spot, bumping him to 10th (bench). Consequently, I don't really see a need for that player not to be Powell (unless they want to play 5-out at all times), who I don't think they'll want to move off the team unless his contract is needed to make some deal they really like work. 

And, while I think THJ could be the 3rd wing you're talking about, I'm not sure that's the ideal scenario.

Per Jake Fischer...

Quote:In forecasting their offseason dealings, the Knicks are said to be targeting roughly $25 million in room to be able to chase Dallas Mavericks point guard Jalen Brunson, and they are expected to find new homes for Alec Burks and Nerlens Noel, among other moves. Even if New York pivoted away from Brunson, who league personnel widely believe will return to Dallas, the Knicks would have a large gap to meet Irving's contractual wishes.

(06-21-2022, 09:28 AM)Okstate819 Wrote: [ -> ]Its not ideal and I dont know how you negotiate it

Pretty sure in a sign and trade JB only gets 4 yrs. He can only get 5 if he stays in DAL. 

If NYK is going to have to trade picks to get space, then the Mavs have all the leverage in the world in a sign and trade scenario. It could be cheaper for NYK to deal with DAL directly than dump contracts on ORL for instance.

If the Mavs cannot convince Brunson to re-sign with us instead of the garbage Knicks, they don't deserve to ever win a title again tbh

I don't think that's going to happen though, this almost entirely feels like wishful thinking by the Knicks and their media puppets

(06-21-2022, 08:19 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/bleacherreport/statu...33315?s=21&t=ZW-DlYihq-mrBK8eC7osVA

Knowing this board as I do, I'm sure this is going to incite feelings like Brunson to NY is a done deal already, and that the Mavs are getting pantsed. 

He might sign in NY, I don't know. But, I think our takeaway should be that Brunson is of a caliber that's causing teams to dump other players just to position themselves to make an offer. In other words, the Mavs have what is possibly the most coveted free agent on the market right now. I honestly don't think people here really value him that much.

(06-21-2022, 09:37 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Knowing this board as I do, I'm sure this is going to incite feelings like Brunson to NY is a done deal already, and that the Mavs are getting pantsed. 

He might sign in NY, I don't know. But, I think our takeaway should be that Brunson is of a caliber that's causing teams to dump other players just to position themselves to make an offer. In other words, the Mavs have what is possibly the most coveted free agent on the market right now. I honestly don't think people here really value him that much.

There aren't many posts' of yours that I don't agree with. This is yet another one that we see eye to eye on. What the takeaway should be and where the discussion will go, are two very different things most of the time. It's what makes this place interesting.