(02-13-2022, 11:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Good thoughts. I think most of us share this POV.
Despite the fun to read argument between @"Kammrath" and @"F Gump" for the past few pages about the history of the Mavs FO, both of them have led the charge about the idea that all signs point to Nico Harrison having been given the keys (for now). Personally, I am starting to agree, mostly because the decision to admit the Porzingis deal was a mistake (finally) seems like something that Cuban would've been reluctant to do in the past.
Also enjoying this back and forth of who the real GM is for the Mavs. @"KillerLeft", you posted a video last season of an interview of MC with a female non-sports reporter. It was like a 6-part video, and in one of the clips MC stated that he always over micromanages his new business until he gets familiar with the new people.
For me to believe that Nico is now the GM, I need to see him be the face of the team in the media. Until MC turns that over to Nico, Mark will always be seen as the teams real GM. 2cents...
(02-13-2022, 09:22 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]If Donnie had been the GM, every offer would have been funneled to him. That "multiple voices" system, confusing to other teams, was pure MC-as-GM.
I think this is where we diverge.
I see this as evidence not of Cuban-as-GM but of Donnie failing in his role as president. I see how you come to your conclusion, better than I have in the past, but from my seat my intuition still points to a different conclusion.
Are you able to connect me to anything that documents Cuban complaining about not being able to get trades done? (I know if that was a decade ago that may be a hard ask, I just don't remember seeing anything like that)
One final thought:
There might be a world where we are both right since this spans like two decades of time). Maybe there were different periods of time where both of these happened. Maybe MC was truly the GM for stretches of time (like you are saying) while other stretches he was much less engaged and Donnie was supposed to be running things (but not doing so adequately). Just a thought.
(02-13-2022, 07:20 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]MC should no longer get any benefit of the doubt. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it’s probably MC making the decision. THJ’s contract looks like a duck, Dinwiddie sounds like a duck.
This, if no one has voted for a post of the day yet...
9-man rotation moving forward with Green and Bertans being the two that become match-up dependent in the playoffs. There aren't minutes for Dragic, the Mavs just added two offensive guys... Green and his defense, as well as his development, are more important than a 4th ball-handler/scorer.
PG: Luka 36 / SD 12
SG: JB 36 / SD 8 / Green 4
SF: RB 36 / Green 12
PF: DFS 36 / Bertans 12
C: DP 22 / Kleber 22 / Bertans 4
Just for more context on MPG/Rotation the last 5 games:
Luka 38 mpg
JB 34 mpg
RB 36 mpg
DFS 38 mpg
DP 27 mpg
Kleber 22 mpg
Green 19 mpg
Burke 14 mpg
Frank 12 mpg
Chriss 12 mpg
(02-14-2022, 09:58 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]9-man rotation moving forward with Green and Bertans being the two that become match-up dependent in the playoffs. There aren't minutes for Dragic, the Mavs just added two offensive guys... Green and his defense, as well as his development, are more important than a 4th ball-handler/scorer.
PG: Luka 36 / SD 12
SG: JB 36 / SD 8 / Green 4
SF: RB 36 / Green 12
PF: DFS 36 / Bertans 12
C: DP 22 / Kleber 22 / Bertans 4
Just for more context on MPG/Rotation the last 5 games:
Luka 38 mpg
JB 34 mpg
RB 36 mpg
DFS 38 mpg
DP 27 mpg
Kleber 22 mpg
Green 19 mpg
Burke 14 mpg
Frank 12 mpg
Chriss 12 mpg
Just at initial glance, I think the playoff minutes are too high for DFS and Bullock. Probably a little high for Jalen as well. I don't know how they do it, but I think they find more than 20 minutes for Dinwiddie, if he is productive. I think they are hoping he is a 25-30 minute player somehow. Sort of probably how they viewed him when they had an interest in him this offseason. This all a guess from me though.
I also expect Green to probably lose minutes in the playoffs....just a guess though. It will be interesting to see if Hardaway is back at the end of the year too.
That frontcourt depth chart is really thin....mavs really have their work cut out for them.
(02-14-2022, 10:24 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Just at initial glance, I think the playoff minutes are too high for DFS and Bullock. Probably a little high for Jalen as well. I don't know how they do it, but I think they find more than 20 minutes for Dinwiddie, if he is productive. I think they are hoping he is a 25-30 minute player somehow. Sort of probably how they viewed him when they had an interest in him this offseason. This all a guess from me though.
I also expect Green to probably lose minutes in the playoffs....just a guess though. It will be interesting to see if Hardaway is back at the end of the year too.
That frontcourt depth chart is really thin....mavs really have their work cut out for them.
I actually think Luka, DFS and RB's minutes will increase in the playoffs, at the expense of Green/Bertans - depending on match-up's... more of a 7-8 man rotation in the playoffs. I could see Brunson moving down to 32 mpg and SD increasing to 24 mpg if/when he shows that he's worth the extra minutes. I feel like SD might be more effective with 18-20 mpg but Kidd will need to figure all that out. Regardless, there aren't minutes for Dragic and it would be difficult to find any minutes for a big come playoff time as well. It would be at the expense of Bertans who needs to increase his value and who's shooting may be invaluable.
I can see why Nico says this roster is "set"...
(02-13-2022, 11:44 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I think this is where we diverge.
I see this as evidence not of Cuban-as-GM but of Donnie failing in his role as president. I see how you come to your conclusion, better than I have in the past, but from my seat my intuition still points to a different conclusion.
Are you able to connect me to anything that documents Cuban complaining about not being able to get trades done? (I know if that was a decade ago that may be a hard ask, I just don't remember seeing anything like that)
One final thought:
There might be a world where we are both right since this spans like two decades of time). Maybe there were different periods of time where both of these happened. Maybe MC was truly the GM for stretches of time (like you are saying) while other stretches he was much less engaged and Donnie was supposed to be running things (but not doing so adequately). Just a thought.
These conversations are difficult to “watch”. Hard to ask this in a way that doesn’t sound condescending, but have you had much exposure to leadership teams professionally? You seem to have a habit of connecting the reported dots in such an unintuitive way that, while possible, airballs Occam’s Razor.
Take the reported confusion around who to discuss trades with. Nelson was only one of the people apparently negotiating, meaning others were making calls as well (say, Voulgaris). Were those others reporting Nelson, meaning he had leverage to stop them? I believe we have confirmation that those others reported directly to Cuban. If so, that’s on our illustrious owner and an awful organizational structure that he’s ultimately accountable for.
We can bicker on whether Cuban was really the GM or argue the semantics of whether he was too involved or not enough, but the bottom line is that there are some very basic management decisions on the structure of the organization which were, ahem, “highly unconventional”. There’s no excuse to get the simple things wrong (like roles & responsibilities, decision making power, etc.) when you’re bringing in NBA kind of revenue.
Just to be clear, I’m not slating Cuban for evaluating talent poorly (although I’m not defending him either). Talent evaluation is incredibly hard, despite fans’ self-confidence. But there are non-basketball red flags that came out in the summer departures that scream either “I don’t know what I’m doing” or “I’m smarter than everyone else”. It kills me to see some section of Mavs fans carrying his water on the unforced errors he’s made purely on simple business stuff. For what it’s worth, there are a lot of signs Cuban is a classic founder-CEO archetype that is great at disruption/growth but utterly out of his depth at running a large successful business. Usually those guys eventually step aside or crash their ego-ship into a hubris iceberg.
(02-14-2022, 10:24 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]I think they find more than 20 minutes for Dinwiddie, if he is productive. I think they are hoping he is a 25-30 minute player somehow.
I think DB is going to be a 20-27 minute player as well (at least during the regular season).
(02-14-2022, 11:03 AM)Not an evil robot Wrote: [ -> ]These conversations are difficult to “watch”. Hard to ask this in a way that doesn’t sound condescending, but have you had much exposure to leadership teams professionally? You seem to have a habit of connecting the reported dots in such an unintuitive way that, while possible, airballs Occam’s Razor.
Take the reported confusion around who to discuss trades with. Nelson was only one of the people apparently negotiating, meaning others were making calls as well (say, Voulgaris). Were those others reporting Nelson, meaning he had leverage to stop them? I believe we have confirmation that those others reported directly to Cuban. If so, that’s on our illustrious owner and an awful organizational structure that he’s ultimately accountable for.
Donnie was the "President of Basketball Operations" and so all basketball related things were supposed to go through him. Guys were going rogue under him. Did Cuban enable that? Absolutely (I have never suggested Cuban is without blame)...but Donnie seems to have failed pretty massively as a leader and president. Donnie was the hands-on, everyday leader of the Mavs organization. Cuban was doing a million other things, especially in recent years when this got really bad.
And yes, for the record, I am the top person in the organization I work for and have been for the last 8.5 years.
Knowing that Cuban was REALLY busy with other things in recent years (Cuban was different early on with DAL as he was much more focused and devoted to the Mavs as his "one thing") and that he had a "President of Basketball Operations" in place, Occam's Razor would suggest that the simplest explanation is that the president failed to lead while at the same time the owner failed to hold the president accountable (or empower the president adequately).
(02-14-2022, 11:15 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I think DB is going to be a 20-27 minute player as well (at least during the regular season).
Show your work.... haha.
I tried to find more minutes for him but it was difficult since I also think DP and Kleber warrant more than 22 per in the Mavs eyes. DFS has been playing almost 40 mpg so I don't know if they'll try to scale him back some before the playoffs or not. Either way it was difficult to find more than 16 min for Bertans (though the Mavs need to showcase him).
(02-14-2022, 10:37 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]I actually think Luka, DFS and RB's minutes will increase in the playoffs, at the expense of Green/Bertans - depending on match-up's... more of a 7-8 man rotation in the playoffs. I could see Brunson moving down to 32 mpg and SD increasing to 24 mpg if/when he shows that he's worth the extra minutes. I feel like SD might be more effective with 18-20 mpg but Kidd will need to figure all that out. Regardless, there aren't minutes for Dragic and it would be difficult to find any minutes for a big come playoff time as well. It would be at the expense of Bertans who needs to increase his value and who's shooting may be invaluable.
I can see why Nico says this roster is "set"...
I would sure like to add another big that could play center (backup role, not starter type)........one more mobile than Boban and with more experience than Chriss. I feel as though the 26 minutes when Maxi and Davis are in the game....we could really get pushed around. Hollinger listed these possibilities: Robin Lopez, Enes Freedom, Trystan Thompson, Millsap, Muscala, Eubanks. Not sure who or how many get bought out, but Lopez, Thompson, and Muscala are interesting. If you get one, you could release Chriss or Burke.
(02-14-2022, 11:15 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I think DB is going to be a 20-27 minute player as well (at least during the regular season).
I have a really good feeling about this trade.
Bertans is what we ask Maxi to be and Bertans is a natural shooter.
Dinwiddie was a borderline all star a few years ago before his injury.
These guys could be main stays in our organization and the upgrades over Tim and Maxi eventually.
Possible Off Season Deal:
Maxi + THJ + Burke + 2022 1st Rd. Pick to Indiana for Miles Turner and Buddy Hield or TJ Warren.
(02-14-2022, 11:26 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]Show your work.... haha.
My guess of regular season minutes once the new guys are acclimated and assuming health:
PG: Luka 35 / SD 13
SG: JB 32 / SD 14 / Green 2
SF: RB 32 / Green 10 / DFS 6
PF: DFS 26 / Bertans 22
C: DP 22 / Kleber 22 / Bertans 4
Luka: 35
JB: 32
DFS: 32
RB: 32
SD: 27
DB: 26
DP: 22
MK: 22
JG: 12
(02-14-2022, 11:37 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]My guess of regular season minutes once the new guys are acclimated and assuming health:
PG: Luka 35 / SD 13
SG: JB 32 / SD 14 / Green 2
SF: RB 32 / Green 10 / DFS 6
PF: DFS 26 / Bertans 22
C: DP 22 / Kleber 22 / Bertans 4
Luka: 35
JB: 32
DFS: 32
RB: 32
SD: 27
DB: 26
DP: 22
MK: 22
JG: 12
Taking a lot of minutes from the top 4 guys, based on their recent average per game. Hope that sits well with all of them. Not to mention Green. Time will tell... Looking forward to watching players actually PLAY (sorry for that shot, KP)
(02-14-2022, 11:45 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]Taking a lot of minutes from the top 4 guys, based on their recent average per game. Hope that sits well with all of them.
My guess is that those guys are all playing minutes that high out of necessity, not because they want to. And, if the new plan for minutes distribution (whatever that is) hurts the team's chances to win after they've gotten comfortable with it, I'm sure those top guys will go right back to getting those super high minutes.
(02-14-2022, 11:49 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]My guess is that those guys are all playing minutes that high out of necessity, not because they want to.
Yeah, I think 32 mins is a good number for regular season. Helps keep guys fresh and uninjured.
(02-14-2022, 11:49 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]My guess is that those guys are all playing minutes that high out of necessity, not because they want to. And, if the new plan for minutes distribution (whatever that is) hurts the team's chances to win after they've gotten comfortable with it, I'm sure those top guys will go right back to getting those super high minutes.
I don't know that it's out of necessity per se. I think that's the best players and the best rotation going forward. I made the minute splits more-so with the playoffs or the "competitive" games in mind. I could see the rotation that Kamm put out as 'more than likely' for the next 20 games. But i want the top 4 guys playing more than 32 min in the playoffs.
(02-14-2022, 11:57 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know that it's out of necessity per se. I think that's the best players and the best rotation going forward. I made the minute splits more-so with the playoffs or the "competitive" games in mind. I could see the rotation that Kamm put out as 'more than likely' for the next 20 games. But i want the top 4 guys playing more than 32 min in the playoffs.
I thought the convo was about the regular season - sorry if I missed something that indicated playoffs.
All I meant by out of necessity is that there's no way any team
wants to play their best player 38 minutes per game during the regular season. I assume they do it because they feel they have to in order to be competitive. 38 minutes is a
lot.
There's no question that rotations for every team get shortened and minutes for the top 5-7 go up in the playoffs. I totally agree. My guess is that ONE of the lower level guys from Kamm's outline gets less than what he suggested - either one of the new guys or, if all goes well with them, Green, probably.
(02-14-2022, 12:00 PM)soog Wrote: [ -> ]And Frank has averaged 12min/g.
...when he plays at all. He has been almost completely out of the rotation until trash time over the past several weeks. The only reason he played recently against LAC is that Burke got hurt.
(02-14-2022, 12:00 PM)soog Wrote: [ -> ]No way Berty stays on the court that much. Give him 12-15min tops. The guy has a hard time staying on the court even when he is shooting well, which he isn’t ….
And Frank has averaged 12min/g. We can’t expect to go to zero just because Dinwiddie is here.
And what about Chriss? I know he’s injured but isn’t he expected to come back soon?
Frank/Burke/Chriss are now end of the bench guys that get spot minutes and/or play when others ahead of them are out with injury or rest. I don't think Bertans plays as little as 12 MPG but also don't think he plays ~27 MPG.