(06-16-2022, 08:33 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]No argument there.
And, I could be way wrong, but I suspect if they're playing against Jokic/Embiid, Kleber will be the guy, whether the 3rd guy is Powell or Holmes.
...and that's because of the offensive end of the floor.
OPJ would be perfect. Any chance they can get him? I kind of doubt it. I just don't think Luka is there yet in terms of drawing the ring chasers, especially away from teams who might have just won a ring.
But hell yes, I'd be into targeting him.
Warriors will have to make a decision. They have both OPJ and Payton II as UFAs. Also no way to get under the tax line. Problem is that other teams can simply outbid the Mavs.
(06-16-2022, 08:39 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Warriors will have to make a decision. They have both OPJ and Payton II as UFAs. Also no way to get under the tax line. Problem is that other teams can simply outbid the Mavs.
Interesting. I wonder if he has reached the TP MLE portion of his career yet. If not, I doubt Dallas will look like a place he'll take less to join. But if so, and that's about what he'll get anywhere? He could do a lot worse than Dallas, I'd think.
Sorry for the ignorant question, but what prevents them from keeping both? Do they not have bird rights for one of them?
(06-16-2022, 08:42 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting. I wonder if he has reached the TP MLE portion of his career yet. If not, I doubt Dallas will look like a place he'll take less to join. But if so, and that's about what he'll get anywhere? He could do a lot worse than Dallas, I'd think.
Sorry for the ignorant question, but what prevents them from keeping both? Do they not have bird rights for one of them?
Otto Porter JR non-bird
Gary Payton II early-bird
(06-16-2022, 08:47 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Otto Porter JR non-bird
Ok, so the TP MLE is probably his best possible offer to staying there, even if they want him, yeah?
That does make things more interesting.
(06-16-2022, 08:24 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Bingo.
That was my implicit/hidden point in my post. There is no obvious FA target that can fill the stated need AND with the Mavs being money strapped I imagine a THJ trade is coming (if possible) in our future to attain this said desired player.
Yeah, signing FA’s at 3x tax doesn’t seem likely. Ideally, it could be THJ going to a cap room team for a MUCH less expensive player.
Kenrich Williams is someone I like for this 24 minute 3/4 role I envision. Why not something as simple as THJ for Williams (or Williams and Favors). OKC could use some 3 point shooting.
(06-16-2022, 08:39 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Warriors will have to make a decision. They have both OPJ and Payton II as UFAs. Also no way to get under the tax line. Problem is that other teams can simply outbid the Mavs.
Mysterious "other team" can ALWAYS outbid the Mavs. But -- we don't know that said team(s) will have any interest ...or, even if interested, whether they will put a bigger offer on the table.
That's how GS got players like OPJ and Bjelica in the 1st place -- they were sure to get offers that couldn't be beat, and then, whaddya know, they settled for minimums instead.
That having been said, there's value in seeing if you can find the next OPJ or Batum or X, whose value has vanished and is available at the minimum. Or GPJr, who had yet to prove himself, but showed sporadic promise. Would not be a bad idea to save the last roster slot or two for players like that, fallen stars or not-quite-there prospects, willing to take a minimum.
(06-16-2022, 08:51 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Bjelica
Another guy who'd be perfect. I wish he was free.
(06-16-2022, 08:51 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Batum
And another one.
(06-16-2022, 08:49 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, signing FA’s at 3x tax doesn’t seem likely. Ideally, it could be THJ going to a cap room team for a MUCH less expensive player.
Kenrich Williams is someone I like for this 24 minute 3/4 role I envision. Why not something as simple as THJ for Williams (or Williams and Favors). OKC could use some 3 point shooting.
I like the idea. Green for Williams seems more straightforward to me and would fit OKC's youth movement a bit better. I won't complain if they want THJ though.
(06-16-2022, 09:28 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]I like the idea. Green for Williams seems more straightforward to me and would fit OKC's youth movement a bit better. I won't complain if they want THJ though.
Yeah, I wrote that one last night and added the OKC second coming our way.
(06-16-2022, 08:49 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, signing FA’s at 3x tax doesn’t seem likely. Ideally, it could be THJ going to a cap room team for a MUCH less expensive player.
Kenrich Williams is someone I like for this 24 minute 3/4 role I envision. Why not something as simple as THJ for Williams (or Williams and Favors). OKC could use some 3 point shooting.
Is Kenrich Williams good enough to get 24 minutes a game on this team? He is a hustle guy with an inconsistent 3 and does not do much else on offense. He is a good defender, but he would definitely be a downgrade on talent from Timmy. I'm not sure why OKC does that anyways, because although he is not as good a player as Timmy, he is on a great 2 mil contract. He is an asset with that contract. Timmy is probably a negative asset at the moment.
If we are sending out Timmy for a big 3&D wing, it needs to be somebody overpriced. I really don't know who that would be? Is there somebody that fits that description that might be available for Timmy, or possibly Timmy plus Green?
(06-16-2022, 08:51 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Mysterious "other team" can ALWAYS outbid the Mavs. But -- we don't know that said team(s) will have any interest ...or, even if interested, whether they will put a bigger offer on the table.
That's how GS got players like OPJ and Bjelica in the 1st place -- they were sure to get offers that couldn't be beat, and then, whaddya know, they settled for minimums instead.
That having been said, there's value in seeing if you can find the next OPJ or Batum or X, whose value has vanished and is available at the minimum. Or GPJr, who had yet to prove himself, but showed sporadic promise. Would not be a bad idea to save the last roster slot or two for players like that, fallen stars or not-quite-there prospects, willing to take a minimum.
OPJ was a weird situation I think. Always had the talent, but he was injured for his entire big contract. There were fans from lots of teams wanting to give him a chance. Even random Mavs fans. Teams probably scared to give him too much so best deal was probably taking the vet min with GS to help recoup his market value on a good team that will use him correctly and/or ring chase. Mavs might be in position to get these kind of players though now for sure.
(06-16-2022, 10:02 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Is Kenrich Williams good enough to get 24 minutes a game on this team? He is a hustle guy with an inconsistent 3 and does not do much else on offense. He is a good defender, but he would definitely be a downgrade on talent from Timmy. I'm not sure why OKC does that anyways, because although he is not as good a player as Timmy, he is on a great 2 mil contract. He is an asset with that contract. Timmy is probably a negative asset at the moment.
Yeah, maybe not my best work. I've posted several times that now is not the time to trade Tim. I'm just a deal junkie and I need another hit.
I do like Williams. I think he'd be a nice fit for that 24 minutes. So would several others, many of whom have been discussed. It doesn't have to be a star though (not opposed to a star, but I'd rather something like this than keeping the status quo). I kind of like J. Green for Williams/#34 idea. OKC gets Aussie Josh X 2.
(06-16-2022, 10:02 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Is Kenrich Williams good enough to get 24 minutes a game on this team? He is a hustle guy with an inconsistent 3 and does not do much else on offense. He is a good defender, but he would definitely be a downgrade on talent from Timmy. I'm not sure why OKC does that anyways, because although he is not as good a player as Timmy, he is on a great 2 mil contract. He is an asset with that contract. Timmy is probably a negative asset at the moment.
If we are sending out Timmy for a big 3&D wing, it needs to be somebody overpriced. I really don't know who that would be? Is there somebody that fits that description that might be available for Timmy, or possibly Timmy plus Green?
IF Dallas trades THJ in a salary dump it will cost quite a bit in assets to get it done. IF we think OKC believes Aussie Green is an asset then we might move THJ's contract in exchange for a single pick. IF OKC feels they should get a tip for taking on Aussie Green then the price could very well climb to 2 future 1st rd picks and a 2nd... IF we are trading picks I want to know I like the assets in return. I think it is obvious by the trade this week that there is not a hesitancy to trade picks to up the talent but using them to move off of salary has not been a characteristic of this front office.
Let me throw one more scenario out -
Ultimately my desire for taking on Holmes is accumulation of assets. What IF Indy can't get Myles Turner to extend and they decide that moving him is better than losing him for nothing. Indy is not the FA capital of the world so getting a package with Holmes might be better regarded by Indy than taking on Powell. OR pick your wing of choice... Holmes is an extremely buy low candidate at the moment and I would like the chance to be able to move either (Wood/Holmes) for a better fitting piece if we have upped their value. I am willing to be patient with THJ as well as a process on the road to value recovery.
I just watched Wiggins win a championship as the 2nd best player on the team and possibly the best during the 1st 2-3 rounds. Give me some assets that could make us buyers on the next Wiggins!
My kind of under the radar wing pickup would be Taurean Prince. Decent 3 and D guy and I think could be available for the taxpayer MLE. Not an exciting name by any means, but I think he could be a solid back up wing behind DFS and Bullock.
(06-16-2022, 07:59 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]So, let’s use this model and assume Wood gets 28 minutes instead of the 23 minutes Powell and Bertans split in the playoffs. Maxi averaged 25 and combined that is 53, so there are now five minutes where we can reduce the load on other players. I’m not saying Powell or Bertans are gone. They will serve useful purposes during the regular season. I’m just trying to apply a strict interpretation of a playoff rotation and see where we are lacking. You also have to think about backups in case of injury and foul trouble in the playoffs.
So, we have a CW/MK center rotation and five minutes of Maxi time to use elsewhere. That is five minutes where DFS can rest bringing his number down from 38 to 33…much more reasonable. But, we’ve only covered 38 of 48 minutes at the four. So, there is a 10 minute opening.
The PG’s got 37, 35 and 28 for a total of 100 minutes (96 minutes of two guard and four minutes of three PG lineups). Let’s trim that back to 96 minutes. So, we’ve created four minutes. Bullock averaged 39, let’s bring that back to 32. We also eliminate the Green/Frank minutes. Essentially there is about a 14 minute opportunity at the three.
They’ve said this “wing defender” is a priority, so we can’t presume they are counting on Green or Frank doing this job. Which is fine. They are still young and don’t have to necessarily do anything just yet (they do need to be ready as players contracts expire). But, we have about 24 minutes available and someone needs to get about half of that time at the four and half at the three. Here is how I see it playing out (again in a tight playoff rotation):
CW 28. MK 23.
DFS 33. MK 5 New 10.
Bullock 32. New 14.
Brunson 34 SD 14.
Luka. 34. SD 14.
So, this could just be a 24 minute veteran backup. But, you could also trim Maxi some more and move more of DFS’s minutes to the three and make this a starting four. It probably isn’t a starting three. One issue that Woods causes defensively is you probably have to keep him separated in lineups from THJ. In fact THJ, who can’t play the four, would be the logical outgoing in an O for D swap for a bigger body who stands a chance against the Kawhi’s of the world. That guy, whether he starts or relieves DFS when he sits or has foul trouble is the missing piece.
A simple way to look at it: Dinwiddie is going to eat up all of the backup minutes behind Luka and Brunson. So like you said, that part is easy to map out.
With DFS, Bullock, and Wood, I'm sure they will try to limit their minutes in the regular season to a reasonable amount. So let's say there will be 50-60 backup minutes available in our front court. As of now Maxi and THJ will definitely be getting the bulk of those minutes. So there will be maybe 10-20 "flex" minutes for the rest of the time, which will probably depend on the situation and the other team. Green or Ntilikina for defense, Powell for rim-running, and Bertans for shooting. Hard for me to see where there's room for another wing unless we send out THJ.
As constructed, I'd say the biggest needs are a "big" big man for situations that call for it, and a backup PG for when one of our 3 ball-handlers is injured.
I don't think a wing is the priority.
Even with Wood in the fold, Mavs just have 2 bigs for the play-offs.
Mavs need to sign 2 bigs, at least one who can provide immediate help and another one who can develop in time, but can provide spot up minutes in the regular season.
If the Mavs really want a wing, they need to trade some combo of THJ, DP and Green.
Maybe this works:
Mavs gets - Holmes + Ross + King's 49th
Magic gets - DP + Justin Holiday
Kings get - THJ
Wood can play the 4, he might be better at the five, but doesn't mean Wood can't play with a C. Happened with Drummond and Sengun, it can happen with Holmes. And if you have Holmes, it pretty much guarantees the Mavs can have a quality big at any given time. They can afford to develop a rookie as a fourth big... Ross isn't THJ of course, but he is more than just a stand still shooter. If anything else, he's a less efficient THJ with probably better defense.
For the Magic, although they are capable of picking up a big in the draft, is probably going to lose a C or 2 Cs if they let go of Bamba. DP can help with that and can also provide veteran leadership for the young squad. The same reason goes for Justin Holiday (who I wanted the Mavs to have in this trade), who can provide veteran presence but also 3 and D help. Justin Holiday at this point is the better player than Ross who wants to be traded out of Orlando.
The Kings are getting THJ for a big they do not need, or at least, doesn't fit well with their newest star big. Fox+Sabonis+Barnes+THJ+3rd pick looks like a nice starting five.
(06-17-2022, 07:35 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think a wing is the priority.
I don't agree with that. We have no one, who would be able to guard Kawhi, LeBron and other playmaking big wings - Zion (playing next to Valanciunas), JJJ are some other names.
(06-17-2022, 07:35 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]Wood can play the 4, he might be better at the five, but doesn't mean Wood can't play with a C.
Wood and Sengun was just not working in Houston. Wood and Theiss was also very bad. I think Wood is a full time center.