MavsBoard

(01-03-2022, 01:02 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]A few Mavs points:


https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/1/3/2...-a-problem

Including Bey taking off.  Its still painful to watch guys like Bey and Bane taking off this year.

(01-03-2022, 12:46 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, something just feels off.   It was Luka's first game back and to be expected, he was not at his best.   Regardless, I thought the Jalen and Luka backcourt to start the game would fit like a glove and allow us to get off to quick starts.  I didn't feel that last night.   Luka has such strong pull to this team that it impacts everything when he is on the court though.   It has always been that way, but it just feels different this year so far.   I can't put my finger on it, but it just feels a little off.   It is only one game, so we will see how it looks in a week from now.

I still think the coaches (game plan) have asked him to do something he's not comfortable with.  Not sure what it is, or how to fix it...but you rarely see Luka play any more with joyful abandon, getting 30 points, 10 assists, and 12 rebounds.  In my opinion, that is something to build around.  And Luka can't do that unless he is happy.

So...do we build around JB or Luka?  In many, many years of supervision I've seen rare talents pigeonholed and left to atrophy because "corporate" wanted everybody to be plug and play.  I like JB!  But I also think he wants his own team...and will cost a bundle.  Probably rightfully so.  We need a batman and robin type of team.  That doesn't mean 1 of each.  It can be 1 and 2, or 2 and 3, or...whatever.  Plug and play teams are...average.  I would build around Luka...and it hasn't happened yet.

Oh...wait.  Did you notice I didn't say, build around KP?  He's a robin...and hasn't accepted it yet.  And he keeps playing that damned high post when he should be low post, turn around and score.  Ichabod Crane is all knees and elbows when he tries to back somebody down, and simply doesn't have the body, handles, or weight to do it.

Damn...where did all that come from?

If you're Dallas, is there any interest in taking a look at the Houston situation and specifically Christian Wood?  Could Wood and KP coexist?

On a side note, I think Luka and Brunson is our backcourt of the future.  The question is would KP and Wood be a dynamic frontcourt with DFS being our SF?

Are we good with Ntilikina as our backup PG?  I like THJ and Bullock coming off the bench.

Not sure what would be a fair offer for Wood.  He's got 2 years 28 million left on his deal (unrestricted FA in 2023)

https://twitter.com/msinger/status/14782...17185?s=20

No shot Jokic ever leaves that franchise willingly.

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(01-03-2022, 11:52 PM)Mavs03 Wrote: [ -> ]If you're Dallas, is there any interest in taking a look at the Houston situation and specifically Christian Wood?  Could Wood and KP coexist?

On a side note, I think Luka and Brunson is our backcourt of the future.  The question is would KP and Wood be a dynamic frontcourt with DFS being our SF?

Are we good with Ntilikina as our backup PG?  I like THJ and Bullock coming off the bench.

Not sure what would be a fair offer for Wood.  He's got 2 years 28 million left on his deal (unrestricted FA in 2023)

The problem I have with Wood is not a talent one, but whenever a player gives up on a team and gets mad for being benched because of his own immaturity then I instantly get turned off on them.

Wood is a great player. I don't think he'd be super gun-ho about taking a super reduced role here and play basically 4th fiddle, but in theory he'd be a better roll man than Powell. His deal is cheap enough where it's worth the gamble but I think the Rockets are going to ask for an arm and a leg and if we're going to trade everything for a big man I'd rather go for Ayton or Sabonis.

(01-03-2022, 12:20 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]They will release WCS to sign Chriss imho.

I still think there is something off about the team chemistry at (almost) full strength.

I don´t know what it is, but the defense and off-ball movement of the starters was once again not very convincing, especially when you consider who they played. It´s once again reflected in the +/- numbers. Starters didn´t click. The bench looked much better imho.

Luka´s skip passes to the corners have also become too predictable. Teams are sitting on those passing lanes now.

I still stand on the side that KP and Luka are just not a good match. Luka is better off playing with a traditional big. 

I have been saying this for years. His basketball fundamental instincts are somewhat broken with KP because KP is a unconventional player and Luka is used to conventional chess pieces given his artistry. He needs a big that can finish around the rim and play like a big. He needs wings and shooters. He is better off with another scorer and more traditional basketball pieces. 

Again this is my opinion but I agree with you.

The reason I like Simmons is because Simmons can play small ball 5 but do some of those things Luka likes plus he can get to the rim and is more traditional in floor spacing. The Shooting issue is a concern but he could probably pick that up. They are the perfect fit like Jordan and Pippen.

(01-04-2022, 03:57 AM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]I still stand on the side that KP and Luka are just not a good match. Luka is better off playing with a traditional big. 

I know it doesn't look good on the floor but with Luka+KP on the court the Mavs have always been hovering right around 60% win%, right at a 50 win pace.

And that's with both of them playing incredibly awkward around each other. If Kidd could just unlock the Luka-KP PnR then who knows what their ceiling is. 

In any case you have a point. I do wonder at times and day dream what would Luka look like (or if he would prefer) a big like Sabonis or Jokic. Traditional bruisers who like to roll and get to the basket but can also sometimes shoot outside. I guess we'll see what Nico (or in all likelihood Cuban) believes this TDL.

(01-04-2022, 03:57 AM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]I still stand on the side that KP and Luka are just not a good match. Luka is better off playing with a traditional big. 

I have been saying this for years. His basketball fundamental instincts are somewhat broken with KP because KP is a unconventional player and Luka is used to conventional chess pieces given his artistry. He needs a big that can finish around the rim and play like a big. He needs wings and shooters. He is better off with another scorer and more traditional basketball pieces. 

Again this is my opinion but I agree with you.

The reason I like Simmons is because Simmons can play small ball 5 but do some of those things Luka likes plus he can get to the rim and is more traditional in floor spacing. The Shooting issue is a concern but he could probably pick that up. They are the perfect fit like Jordan and Pippen.

There has definitely been fit concerns with Luka and KP that need to get resolved (which may involve shipping KP out) but I would argue the fit with Simmons would be even more awkward.  They both need the ball in their hands to be most effective, Simmons is a great defender but does not really protect the rim, he is not a rim runner and has shown no progress in 4+ years with shooting.  I'm not sure what you are supposed to do with Simmons when Luka has the ball in his hands, but it will likely involve clogging up the lane, and that is before you add a necessary rim protector to the lineup (who generally operate in the lane on offense).  That is all before we even start talking about head case concerns.

(01-04-2022, 10:37 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]There has definitely been fit concerns with Luka and KP that need to get resolved (which may involve shipping KP out) but I would argue the fit with Simmons would be even more awkward.  They both need the ball in their hands to be most effective, Simmons is a great defender but does not really protect the rim, he is not a rim runner and has shown no progress in 4+ years with shooting.  I'm not sure what you are supposed to do with Simmons when Luka has the ball in his hands, but it will likely involve clogging up the lane, and that is before you add a necessary rim protector to the lineup (who generally operate in the lane on offense).  That is all before we even start talking about head case concerns.

I see Simmons as a Draymond Green type of player. If you watch Luka with Brunson, you see Luka playing in the post and passing out of the post and things just look amazing when he does. Simmons could really flourish in being an off the ball option there in that situation given his cutting ability and his ability to create another scoring option off of those dive cuts for someone else. 

Luka + Simmons would work way better than Luka  + KP because of that.

(01-04-2022, 09:12 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]If Kidd could just unlock the Luka-KP PnR then who knows what their ceiling is. 

We have all been wanting both coaches to figure this out for like three years. 

I don't understand why we have only gotten it for one glorious half (maybe even just a quarter) during that time. I really, truly don't get it, and that frustrates me. I have reached the point where I think it must be that Porzingis simply doesn't want to play that way. That's not a take I can support with evidence, and I could be (and hope I am) way wrong, but I can't dream up any other reason this approach has been absent for the entirety of the tandem's partnership.

(01-04-2022, 01:06 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]We have all been wanting both coaches to figure [the KP PNR] out for like three years. 

I don't understand why we have only gotten it for one glorious half (maybe even just a quarter) during that time. I really, truly don't get it, and that frustrates me. I have reached the point where I think it must be that Porzingis simply doesn't want to play that way. That's not a take I can support with evidence, and I could be (and hope I am) way wrong, but I can't dream up any other reason this approach has been absent for the entirety of the tandem's partnership.

The great mystery of the Luka-KP era. I'm still scratching my head.

(01-04-2022, 01:06 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]We have all been wanting both coaches to figure this out for like three years. 

I don't understand why we have only gotten it for one glorious half (maybe even just a quarter) during that time. I really, truly don't get it, and that frustrates me. I have reached the point where I think it must be that Porzingis simply doesn't want to play that way. That's not a take I can support with evidence, and I could be (and hope I am) way wrong, but I can't dream up any other reason this approach has been absent for the entirety of the tandem's partnership.

Correct, the on court chemistry has never actually been there. 

The Mavs need guys that play the way Luka needs them to play so he has to make fewer adjustments. The more adjustments Luka has to make that take him away from his game, the more we see him struggling to be himself. 

KP needs to go somewhere and be a lead dog where he can be  "THE" guy and I am starting to become an even bigger KP fan.

(01-04-2022, 01:06 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]We have all been wanting both coaches to figure this out for like three years. 

I don't understand why we have only gotten it for one glorious half (maybe even just a quarter) during that time. I really, truly don't get it, and that frustrates me.

100%. 

The Luka-KP pick and roll was THE single thing I was looking forward to when the trade was made........and let's be honest the Luka-KP pick and roll is the only unicorn in Dallas. A mythical creature that does NOT exist except in our imaginations.

(01-04-2022, 01:06 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]We have all been wanting both coaches to figure this out for like three years. 

I don't understand why we have only gotten it for one glorious half (maybe even just a quarter) during that time. I really, truly don't get it, and that frustrates me. I have reached the point where I think it must be that Porzingis simply doesn't want to play that way. That's not a take I can support with evidence, and I could be (and hope I am) way wrong, but I can't dream up any other reason this approach has been absent for the entirety of the tandem's partnership.

He wouldn´t be the first "superstar" big that isn´t a willing pick and roll player. Injuries played  a role as well but Dwight Howard ruined his career because he demanded post ups instead of setting screens for Harden.

(01-04-2022, 01:06 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand why we have only gotten it for one glorious half (maybe even just a quarter) during that time. I really, truly don't get it, and that frustrates me.

I think they also played that way until the bubble injury. I remember some awesome PnR between them

(01-04-2022, 01:28 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]He wouldn´t be the first "superstar" big that isn´t a willing pick and roll player. Injuries played  a role as well but Dwight Howard ruined his career because he demanded post ups instead of setting screens for Harden.

Wow, GREAT point!

KP has more of a leg to stand on than Howard, imo. Howard REALLY should've understood that he needed some help. But ultimately I think it's a great comparison in that neither player is able to be the main engine of a winning team, offensively.

Also, I love this point because it reminds me that the way Orlando was able to build a finals team around Howard was by giving the ball to Turkoglo and surrounding both of them with SHOOTERS.

(01-04-2022, 01:06 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]We have all been wanting both coaches to figure this out for like three years. 

I don't understand why we have only gotten it for one glorious half (maybe even just a quarter) during that time. I really, truly don't get it, and that frustrates me. I have reached the point where I think it must be that Porzingis simply doesn't want to play that way. That's not a take I can support with evidence, and I could be (and hope I am) way wrong, but I can't dream up any other reason this approach has been absent for the entirety of the tandem's partnership.

This is the conclusion I’ve drawn as well. Because we know Luka thrives on the pick and roll so he obviously wants to run it. But outside of the first part of KP‘s first year here and the bubble series against the clippers the fit just hasn’t seemed to consistently be there. Sure they have moments and games where we think they might be turning a corner but it always ends up being fools gold. And I can’t come up with anything other than for whatever reason KP doesn’t consistently want to set real screens. Now that JB has turned a corner and moved into the starting lineup I guess we need to give the Luka/JB/KP trio a little evaluation time but I’m becoming increasingly skeptical that KP is ever going to be a part of getting us to the mountain top. 

That’s not to say that he’s a bad player at all. He’s having a borderline All-Star season in fact. But there’s a lot of very good players in this league that just don’t fit together and I think Luka and KP might be an example. For the most part Luka and KP just exist on the floor as individuals instead of working together to make the defenses pay. I agree with whoever said earlier that Luka would probably benefit way more from playing with somebody like Sabonis.

(01-04-2022, 01:42 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think they also played that way until the bubble injury. I remember some awesome PnR between them

I'm not saying you're wrong, because maybe you remember some things I don't. 

What I remember from that season is a lot of (successful) actions in which Powell on the roll was the first option and the ball found KP for some lethally open shots from the perimeter when teams tried to take Powell away. 

I know you're talking about the last part of that season, after Powell got hurt, and I also remember KP being more directly involved in the offense during that stretch, but I'm having a hard time recalling whether it was generated through pick and roll...doesn't mean it wasn't. I just don't have a clear memory of it.

(01-04-2022, 01:52 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]What I remember from that season is a lot of (successful) actions in which Powell on the roll was the first option and the ball found KP for some lethally open shots from the perimeter when teams tried to take Powell away. 

I know you're talking about the last part of that season, after Powell got hurt, and I also remember KP being more directly involved in the offense during that stretch, but I'm having a hard time recalling whether it was generated through pick and roll...doesn't mean it wasn't. I just don't have a clear memory of it.

I think there were more articles like this, other sources too

Why Luka Doncic and Kristaps Porzingis are a perfect match - SBNation.com

(01-04-2022, 01:49 PM)BasketballJones41 Wrote: [ -> ]Now that JB has turned a corner and moved into the starting lineup I guess we need to give the Luka/JB/KP trio a little evaluation time

And to me, Brunson is ALSO a pnr guy. Both Luka and Brunson CAN catch-and-shoot, but I kind of feel like both of them are wasted playing off of post play. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but it seems to me this entire team was built with spread pnr in mind. So puzzling that KP (or the coaches, or both) hasn't figured out a way to fit his skillset into that big picture. I think he'd look BETTER and get MORE opportunities!

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(01-04-2022, 01:56 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think there were more articles like this, other sources too

Why Luka Doncic and Kristaps Porzingis are a perfect match - SBNation.com

Well, if they really found some success playing that way, it only makes this season's approach even more puzzling to me.

(01-04-2022, 01:57 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]And to me, Brunson is ALSO a pnr guy. Both Luka and Brunson CAN catch-and-shoot, but I kind of feel like both of them are wasted playing off of post play. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but it seems to me this entire team was built with spread pnr in mind. So puzzling that KP (or the coaches, or both) hasn't figured out a way to fit his skillset into that big picture. I think he'd look BETTER and get MORE opportunities!

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Well, if they really found some success playing that way, it only makes this season's approach even more puzzling to me.

I agree about the way this offense was built. And not only that but the pick and roll is Luka’s bread and butter. If we’re going to have a big man as his running mate setting real screens is a must. I don’t mind the post ups here and there but KP not being able to be a real consistent pick and roll partner holds this team back. Even more so now that JB is a starter. Which sucks because KP does so many other things really well but the ceiling of this team will never be championship level until they work out the pick and roll. Having DP as your main role man isn’t going to get it done. That’s why I’d love to see us find some kind of three team deal for KP that lands Sabonis here.