(01-04-2022, 02:05 PM)BasketballJones41 Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t mind the post ups here and there but KP not being able to be a real consistent pick and roll partner holds this team back.
Yeah, for the record, I think having the whole "post up KP to punish smaller players when teams switch" strategy available is a good idea. I think maybe Carlisle gave up on that a little too quickly. But it shouldn't be the primary goal of the offense (not saying it is now, but it has sometimes been difficult to figure out what the primary goal of this offense is, especially with all the missing players lately). And when they go that way, I really think it would be better if the guy in Powell's spot was a spacer.
For that matter, I agree with what @"mvossman" said last night. If they must start Powell and KP together, why can't KP just be a spacer (like he was in that great offense from two years ago that we remember) for ONLY that portion of the game? If he doesn't want to play the 2-man game with Luka (or they don't want him to, for whatever reason) can we find a compromise where he's not IN THE PAINT WITH HIS HAND UP while the pick and roll is going on????
(01-04-2022, 02:55 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]why can't KP just be a spacer (like he was in that great offense from two years ago that we remember) for ONLY that portion of the game?
Well because from my seat they are rehabbing his image to trade him. 1) I HOPE that is happening, but 2) it really is the only thing that makes sense to me at this point.
(01-04-2022, 03:00 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Well because from my seat they are rehabbing his image to trade him. 1) I HOPE that is happening, but 2) it really is the only thing that makes sense to me at this point.
I hope you're right.
A thought I've been having lately: As great of a player as Kidd was (and he was GREAT), he wasn't really ever a pick and roll guy. He didn't have the pull-up game for it, like a CP3, for example. During the last great Dirk-led stretch of this team, JET was always the ball-handler when the offense played that way, while Kidd was a floor-spacer.
Man, I sure hope Kidd isn't trying to make Luka great the way HE was great. There are similarities between the two for sure, but also some very key differences. I sure hope he understands that (surely he does, right?). I mean, don't you think Nash, for example, would've immediately focused on getting the pnr game going here (or keeping it going, rather), had he been the new coach?
If Kidd is trying to turn Luka into a glorified mismatch computer who brings the ball up, calculates the fastest way to find a mismatch for one of his teammates, calls an action to make that a reality, gives the ball up and watches the whole thing play out, I think that would make me really sad.
(01-04-2022, 03:05 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]A thought I've been having lately: As great of a player as Kidd was (and he was GREAT), he wasn't really ever a pick and roll guy. He didn't have the pull-up game for it, like a CP3, for example. During the last great Dirk-led stretch of this team, JET was always the ball-handler when the offense played that way, while Kidd was a floor-spacer.
Man, I sure hope Kidd isn't trying to make Luka great the way HE was great. There are similarities between the two for sure, but also some very key differences. I sure hope he understands that (surely he does, right?). I mean, don't you think Nash, for example, would've immediately focused on getting the pnr game going here (or keeping it going, rather), had he been the new coach?
If Kidd is trying to turn Luka into a glorified mismatch computer who brings the ball up, calculates the fastest way to find a mismatch for one of his teammates, calls an action to make that a reality, gives the ball up and watches the whole thing play out, I think that would make me really sad.
I personally don't see any evidence for this being the case. But yes it would be sad.
(01-04-2022, 03:16 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I personally don't see any evidence for this being the case. But yes it would be sad.
I probably hyperbolized it a bit, unintentionally. I'm just saying I'm not sure that Kidd
loves pnr basketball.
(01-04-2022, 03:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I'm just saying I'm not sure that Kidd loves pnr basketball.
It is a fair thing to wonder. I would assume he sees as ONE of the major tricks in the bag, but I assume he wants to diversify the offense to be able to attack a defense that is long and switchable and therefore is not as prone to pick and roll basketball.
I think Kidd is multiple in terms of offensive identity.
I think the conversations about KP not being a true PnR guy is the biggest issue. I agree with that 100%.
Sabonis and Luka would be a MF problem. The league does not want that.
(01-04-2022, 08:26 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]I think Kidd is multiple in terms of offensive identity.
I think the conversations about KP not being a true PnR guy is the biggest issue. I agree with that 100%.
Sabonis and Luka would be a MF problem. The league does not want that.
Too bad that KP is the dead last guy the Pacers' current head coach would want on his roster. Would have to be a three-way.
Luka-Sabonis would be murder on defense as well. I'd rather have Turner, by far, as a KP replacement if we're trading with Indiana.
(01-04-2022, 09:24 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I'd rather have Turner, by far, as a KP replacement if we're trading with Indiana.
I just wish he was a better rebounder
In the current NBA I feel like the way to go is with one true big surrounded by 4 versatile SF sized guys that can all switch around on defense.
Miles isn't a good enough rebounder for that to really work and we'd need another big to play alongside him. Not saying I wouldn't do the swap if it's there. I have zero faith in KP making it through a season healthy.
(01-04-2022, 09:24 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Too bad that KP is the dead last guy the Pacers' current head coach would want on his roster. Would have to be a three-way.
Luka-Sabonis would be murder on defense as well. I'd rather have Turner, by far, as a KP replacement if we're trading with Indiana.
Turner is playing much better offensively with Rick as well. I think I would have been happier with Rick and Turner vs Kidd and KP. Don't see any way a trade like that happens now.
For me, all the talk about Luka and KP and the p'n'r this year is utterly vacuous. It beats me why you guys grind on and on and on about it.
They haven't played together *at all* whilst both reasonably fit. At all. At all. (And don't dig out 3 game from mid-November where seemingly both were not just off the injured list to contradict the categoricity.)
The idea was to see what happened by Christmas. But that meant ~25 games. That just hasn't happened. You just have to wait now until the beginning of March to see what is going on, if you want to have some basis for action. (As either the Mavs FO or random posters on the board.)
Or, if you have no patience at all, throw all the cards in the sky randomly.
(01-04-2022, 11:02 PM)BackToSquareOne Wrote: [ -> ]For me, all the talk about Luka and KP and the p'n'r this year is utterly vacuous. It beats me why you guys grind on and on and on about it.
They haven't played together *at all* whilst both reasonably fit. At all. At all. (And don't dig out 3 game from mid-November where seemingly both were not just off the injured list to contradict the categoricity.)
The idea was to see what happened by Christmas. But that meant ~25 games. That just hasn't happened. You just have to wait now until the beginning of March to see what is going on, if you want to have some basis for action. (As either the Mavs FO or random posters on the board.)
I 100% agree we haven't had an ideal or good look at the two of them together under Kidd. But my issue is twofold:
1) The clock is ticking and years have already been spent (wasted?) on the Luka-KP era.
2) We have seen Luka and KP together under a very competent coach (RC) and the results have been less than stellar.
So yes, data this year is lacking, but I don't think data overall is lacking. I get the desire for patience, but at some point in this industry patience will destroy you.
I think the problem is Luka thinks KP sucks and isn't in the business of helping the FO think KP should stay.
Add that to any sort of small personality issues they may have...or Luka taking offense to KP wanting more ball movement or somethingike that...
I don't think Luka has incentive to make luka/kp lineups look great on a spreadsheet. Even if that means it's harder to move KP because Luka won't help his numbers.
Not saying Luka is a bad person or shady...I think it's an issue between Luka and FO and KP is the subject of the disagreement
(01-04-2022, 11:02 PM)BackToSquareOne Wrote: [ -> ]For me, all the talk about Luka and KP and the p'n'r this year is utterly vacuous. It beats me why you guys grind on and on and on about it.
They haven't played together *at all* whilst both reasonably fit. At all. At all. (And don't dig out 3 game from mid-November where seemingly both were not just off the injured list to contradict the categoricity.)
The idea was to see what happened by Christmas. But that meant ~25 games. That just hasn't happened. You just have to wait now until the beginning of March to see what is going on, if you want to have some basis for action. (As either the Mavs FO or random posters on the board.)
Or, if you have no patience at all, throw all the cards in the sky randomly.
Problem is trade deadline is Feb 10. Some decisions have to be made by then. KP may not ever have value higher than right now, and a significant injury would crush that. There may also be opportunities from desperate teams that won't be there in the offseason. Decisions may need to be made with imperfect information.
(01-04-2022, 11:27 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]I think the problem is Luka thinks KP sucks and isn't in the business of helping the FO think KP should stay.
Add that to any sort of small personality issues they may have...or Luka taking offense to KP wanting more ball movement or somethingike that...
I don't think Luka has incentive to make luka/kp lineups look great on a spreadsheet. Even if that means it's harder to move KP because Luka won't help his numbers.
Not saying Luka is a bad person or shady...I think it's an issue between Luka and FO and KP is the subject of the disagreement
This seems like wild speculation, but I guess that's what a message board is for.
(01-04-2022, 11:57 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Problem is trade deadline is Feb 10. Some decisions have to be made by then. KP may not ever have value higher than right now, and a significant injury would crush that. There may also be opportunities from desperate teams that won't be there in the offseason. Decisions may need to be made with imperfect information.
This seems like wild speculation, but I guess that's what a message board is for.
I don't know what's worse...wild speculation on a message board or a message board filled with non-playoff plus/minus data to drive home argument points.
(01-05-2022, 12:17 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]![[Image: uvI36tp.gif?noredirect]](https://i.imgur.com/uvI36tp.gif?noredirect)
Wild speculation and plus/minus data can coexist on a message board...
They're both pseudo science
What do you think of Dallas native JRandle .. Maybe I would have to wait for the offseason..something from Brunson (ST) + to Randle and eat Kemba .. would it make sense for both teams ..? ..
Great versatile, which I think would fit well .. between Luka / KP as 2/3 violin .. A very good rebounder, excellent passer passes his position, he can change in defense ... he marks some boxes that would be very good for us .. As an option n1 in Knicks he feels overwhelmed, ... but in the Mavs he would not have that problem .. He is 27 years old, his best moment is yet to come (although his performance last season would raise us dramatically) ... I have no idea .. but if the Knicks continue their lackluster season, I wouldn't be surprised he was available.( If it were for the Knicks fans that I read on forums, they would have already moved him for salary space even ...)
Brunson(ST)18$?/Bullock to Knicks
Randle/Kemba(TPE) to Mavs
KP/Randle/DFS/Green or Frank/Luka..
Powell/Maxi/THJ/JG or FN/Kemba..
Not bad
thoughts?
would you like to see it on Mavs?
JRandle used to only play Bully Ball. He was a one dimensional player. I didn't like him and didn't want him. However...he has really worked on his game and is now a very skillful player. I think I would take a chance on him. Hopefully he isn't pissed off because we didn't take him in those years he wanted to come here.