MavsBoard

(06-03-2022, 03:38 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I feel like guys like Lavine and Beal are not the kind of guys we should be targeting.

100% with you. The Mavs need to be targeting plus defenders IMO.

(06-03-2022, 11:03 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe I'm misisng something but what's technically wrong with S&T Brunson at 20 for Robinson at 12.5 then moving Burks into the TE? Obviously apron but that seems straighforward by moving THJ to Detroit, Orlando or a similar team with space. No advolcating for this deal but someone above said it violates "all kinds of rules" so ...?

"Maybe I'm missing something but what's technically wrong with" ....

This was the whole deal previously stated as "an option to get [Brunson] to NY via sign-and-trade" that didn't work and violated multiple rules:

• Burks + Mitchell S&T $12.5 million --> Dallas
  
• Brunson S&T $25 million --> New York
  

That was all that was proposed, a simple 2-for-1, and as such it just wasn't doable. As noted in that prior response, it wouldn't match either way (the Mavs existing TPE won't exist in July, so the Mavs can't take 22.5M in salary with 12.5 going out, and NY can't take 25M in salary when sending out 16.25M in salary), and as presented it would have landed the Mavs about 22M over the apron, which also isn't close to fitting the rules.

The proposal here is different and does address the issues previously noted, with a lower salary for JB, and being basically a 3-way deal with THJ being sent elsewhere (and no one coming back to Dallas). The Mavs would still be a bit over the apron, so there's more work to do. And it doesn't address what the Mavs are giving someone, to persuade them to use all their cap room on taking THJ and perhaps more. But if you simply MUST move Brunson to NY and have decided you MUST get Robinson back, it's most of the way there. Well done!

In regards to an evaluation of this, seems to me that in terms of assets that result for the Mavs, you'd want to avoid hard cap issues too, if you are already losing Brunson. With a hard cap, you give away a pile of assets just to get under the hard cap. They you lose the ability to use the MLE to fill remaining holes, and are handcuffed all year in the limits of every little move.

Of course, the best alternative for the Mavs, at least imo, is to simply pay the freight to keep Brunson, and use what assets are here to fill existing needs (for a better C and a two-way wing). The Brunson synergy with Luka and SD is a key part of what makes the Mavs so good, and it would be a giant (and unnecessary) step backwards to give that up.

(06-03-2022, 06:47 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Brunson synergy with Luka and SD is a key part of what makes the Mavs so good, and it would be a giant (and unnecessary) step backwards to give that up.

(06-02-2022, 04:11 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]About Hayward, while he looks very desirable at first glance, he has a major issue.

We must have a different first glance.  He's always felt like an empty calorie guy to me, even before the injuries.  And speaking of empty calories, we survived the Black Falcon era once, I'd want no part of a second helping.

(06-03-2022, 09:35 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]  And speaking of empty calories, we survived the Black Falcon era once, I'd want no part of a second helping.

I don't know what this means, sorry.

(06-03-2022, 09:44 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know what this means, sorry.

Harrison Barnes

(06-02-2022, 04:11 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]About Hayward, while he looks very desirable at first glance, he has a major issue.

He is always hurt. He only is able to play 40-50 games a year, it seems. And he's significantly hurt right now, missing the last 1/3 of the season (while Charlotte was fighting for a playoff berth) with some sort of vague foot issue.

While trading some of these guys feels like an upgrade, it might be just the opposite. And his contract is big, so he would be hard to move.

I just look at the proposed trade of Bertans/Powell from a salary standpoint. 

Next season: +3.0M
2023/2024: +14.5M
2024/2025: -5M (deap cap, if waived)

If you say I have to pay 4M per year extra over a three year period to have Gordon Hayward´s (potential) basketball contributions (plus an extra roster spot, plus no dead-cap in 2024/2025, plus a large expiring for big trades) over Powell/Bertans I take that chance.

Hayward played 50 games last season. 16/5/4 with 39% 3pt shooting. Yeah I think I take that off the bench over Powell/Bertans.

(06-03-2022, 09:35 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]We must have a different first glance.  He's always felt like an empty calorie guy to me, even before the injuries.  And speaking of empty calories, we survived the Black Falcon era once, I'd want no part of a second helping.

Don´t forget the Latvian Albatross era.

(06-03-2022, 06:47 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]This was the whole deal previously stated as "an option to get [Brunson] to NY via sign-and-trade" that didn't work and violated multiple rules:

• Burks + Mitchell S&T $12.5 million --> Dallas
  
• Brunson S&T $25 million --> New York
  

The original deal works too, it just means the Mavs need to dump more salary to get under the apron. It was more a concept than anything. Again, maybe I'm missing something but the whole "nearly mathematically impossible" narrative just doesn't make sense. 

It actually seems pretty straightforward to trade Brunson for Robinson since Brunson is a 20-25 million guy and Robinson is about a 12 million guy and the Mavs have a 10+ million TE to make up the BYC difference.

The only issue I can see is the apron, but if Mavs want to go this route, the apron doesn't seem like a deal breaker at all. 

Signing JB to 4/80 actually starts at 18.5 ... Robinson at 4/48 starts around 11 ... Burks is at 10 ... THJ is at 19.6 

If Mavs just deal THJ for air it's VERY close and certainly workable.

Maybe I'm biased because I happen to think THJ is a good player. I certainly don't think he's a negative asset on a declining deal. Detroit and New Orleans were rumored to have offered way more than Dallas just last summer. If a room team doesn't want him maybe you deal him to a playoff team in the east in exchange for an expiring deal that goes to a room team. In that scenario maybe the team getting THJ tips the room team. Maybe Dallas does. Point is, I'm reasonably confident Dallas can get off THJ if they need to. 

https://twitter.com/GrantAfseth/status/1432179112576229379?s=20&t=CvL6UqgLljFSrU50T-p_uA

Again, I'm not advocating to trade JB or THJ ... and I dont think they will... but some might think Burks is a better fit than THJ and Robinson could be really good here.

(06-03-2022, 11:18 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Don´t forget the Latvian Albatross era.

That must be Bertans since that bird isn't in street clothes.

(06-03-2022, 11:23 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]The original deal works too....

.... and the Mavs have a 10+ million TE to make up the BYC difference.

You want to keep examining the original 2-for-1 of "Burks + Mitchell S&T $12.5 million" to Dallas for a "Brunson S&T $25 million" to NY? If you wish.

We agree the apron issue was an obstacle to that original idea of a simple 2-for-1.

You still keep inserting the existing TPE as your missing piece, but as I mentioned earlier, that could not be used for the original 2-for-1 trade, since it expires before the end of June, and such a trade couldn't happen until July. So that is another idea busting hindrance.

You now present your numbers in that original idea as average salary rather than starting salary, but if so, the trade match numbers still don't work for EITHER team in that proposal.

Brunson getting 4 yrs 100M starts at 23.26, Robinson getting 4 yrs 50M starts at 11.63, Burke is 10
NY needs room for 23.36, gets credit for 15.81 =  can only accept 20.81, and if they send more salary to DAL to fix it, then the Mavs are even farther away from legal
DAL needs room for 21.63, gets credit for 11.63 = can only accept 14.54, and if they send more salary to NY to fix it, then the Knicks are even farther away from legal
 
Yes, a different, more complex trade idea adding more pieces, more teams, and carefully crafted salaries can likely be devised that would solve all the issues on paper, that the 2-for-1 does not. 

Let's move on. 

I think the much better (and more likely) idea is 'Sign-and-keep Brunson' of course.

Yes much better to keep Brunson but keep in mind the whole Burks+Robinson idea was predicated on the idea that Brunson wants to go to the Knicks.

Of course, my guess is most guys would rather play with a 23 year old first team All-NBA superstar, than be coached by his dad.

I’m sure there’s a way to get Brunson to NY and Mitchell to D if that’s what everyone involved wants. I sure hope that’s not what everyone wants. But Burks to D into the TPE this year before the draft? That’s an interesting way to open up some margin to work with in NY and could be part of an unenforceable handshake deal to be completed later.

Burks just seems like a Kidd-type player to me. 

That said I wonder if Orlando picks up Bamba's option, can he be traded into Dallas TE for #26 ? Does that count as a sign & trade?

Mavs would keep the WCF core and add THJ and Bamba

No brainer to keep Brunson and add THJ + Bamba rather than lose Brunson and THJ to add Burks + Robinson.

(06-03-2022, 11:53 AM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: [ -> ]. . .

I like the 3 Guards; I like our Wings; I like Maxi;

[1] I don't like Powell as a starter; [2] I don't like Bullock/Maxi pulling 40+ mpg; I don't like how much Maxi has to do as a 2-way player.

AND [3] I don't like how Boston is showing how much further we need to improve this rotation in order to compete at the highest level making this run appearing as a flash rather than a foundation.

With you on all of this. But . . .

1. Powell is harder to upgrade than people here seem to think. At least that’s how I see it. Not at all confident guys like Gobert, Wood, Turner, Holmes, etc. don’t get played off the court in the playoffs just like Dwight. The likelihood of Marquis Chriss maturing into that role seems every bit as likely as a trade solution to me. Not that it’s highly likely. But it’s possible. 

2. Re Bullock/Maxi pulling 40 minutes, did you mean Bullock/DFS? The extended Maxi problem is simply the Powell problem restated. Reggie and Doe-Doe getting worn down is a problem easily remedied by the re-emergence of THJ and incremental improvements from either Josh Green or Frank Ntilikina. Don’t have to make a trade to fill this hole in my opinion.

3. The depth-like-Boston issue is solved by resolving the Reggie/Doe-Doe overuse issue. The Mavs have assembled a nice 7-player core (Luka, Jalen, Doe-Doe, Maxi, Reggie, Spencer, THJ) with serious potential among their young and improving fellas (Frank, Josh, Marquis). No reason to think they’re more than 2 years away right now, if they can figure out how to handle the center spot. 

Back to issue 1, we’ve already discussed this from so many different angles. The one I most agreed with was the search for another Maxi. Just clone him and his contract and I’m in. Play each Maxi 24 mins. Acquire the new one with the TPE. Able to switch on the P&R. Able to protect the rim. Able to stretch the floor. Doesn’t break the bank. Perfect. But in fairness to Maxi, I’m not sure there’s another player in the league who can bring those same 4 things to the table. In fact, it’s nearly impossible to find 3 of the 4.

(06-04-2022, 09:05 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]Burks just seems like a Kidd-type player to me. 

That said I wonder if Orlando pick up Bamba's option, can he be traded into Dallas TE for #26 ?

Mavs would keep the WCF core and add THJ and Bamba

No brainer to keep Brunson and add THJ + Bamba rather than lose Brunson and THJ to add Burks + Robinson.

I think (but don’t know) that there’s a timing issue with your Bamba proposal. Doesn’t the TPE expire before Bamba (who is expiring) can be resigned in Orlando? Now maybe you can just sign him with the taxpayer MLE instead and save your draft pick. At least from my seat, he doesn’t look like he’ll demand more than that in the open market. Surely Orlando doesn’t tender him the $10.1mm qualifying offer required to make him restricted, do they?

I also wonder if all the Bamba fans on this board are all UT alums. I don’t think he gets minutes ahead of Powell here.

The timing issue is what I was wondering about ... if ORL tenders him the offer 1t $10.1 and he accepts, can he be traded into Mavs TPE for a pick? Maybe it would be a better financial move to bet on himself. Play on the QO next to Luka for a year. 

Of course, if Bamba signs, he's effectively signing a 1-year contract with Orlando, so maybe it would be considered a sign & trade... or maybe disallowed entirely. CBA used to be easier to follow....

(06-04-2022, 09:52 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]The timing issue is what I was wondering about ... if ORL tenders him the offer 1t $10.1 and he accepts, can he be traded into Mavs TPE for a pick? Maybe it would be a better financial move to bet on himself. Play on the QO next to Luka for a year. 

Of course, if Bamba signs, he's effectively signing a 1-year contract with Orlando, so maybe it would be considered a sign & trade... or maybe disallowed entirely. CBA used to be easier to follow....

Right. He can’t accept the QO until next year (July I believe). The Mavs’ TPE is only good this year (June) as I understand it (per Mr. Gump, I believe). So he’d have to be a sign & trade or a free-agent signing.

(06-04-2022, 09:29 AM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]With you on all of this. But . . .

1. Powell is harder to upgrade than people here seem to think. At least that’s how I see it. Not at all confident guys like Gobert, Wood, Turner, Holmes, etc. don’t get played off the court in the playoffs just like Dwight. The likelihood of Marquis Chriss maturing into that role seems every bit as likely as a trade solution to me. Not that it’s highly likely. But it’s possible. 

2. Re Bullock/Maxi pulling 40 minutes, did you mean Bullock/DFS? The extended Maxi problem is simply the Powell problem restated. Reggie and Doe-Doe getting worn down is a problem easily remedied by the re-emergence of THJ and incremental improvements from either Josh Green or Frank Ntilikina. Don’t have to make a trade to fill this hole in my opinion.

3. The depth-like-Boston issue is solved by resolving the Reggie/Doe-Doe overuse issue. The Mavs have assembled a nice 7-player core (Luka, Jalen, Doe-Doe, Maxi, Reggie, Spencer, THJ) with serious potential among their young and improving fellas (Frank, Josh, Marquis). No reason to think they’re more than 2 years away right now, if they can figure out how to handle the center spot. 

Back to issue 1, we’ve already discussed this from so many different angles. The one I most agreed with was the search for another Maxi. Just clone him and his contract and I’m in. Play each Maxi 24 mins. Acquire the new one with the TPE. Able to switch on the P&R. Able to protect the rim. Able to stretch the floor. Doesn’t break the bank. Perfect. But in fairness to Maxi, I’m not sure there’s another player in the league who can bring those same 4 things to the table. In fact, it’s nearly impossible to find 3 of the 4.

I agree with a lot of this except just about everything in point 1.  Powell got wildly outplayed by guys making 5 mil or less all post season.  He will not be hard to upgrade.  Suggesting guys like Gobert and Turner will not be anymore effective because they might be played off the court seems wildly inaccurate to me.  Chriss has almost no chance of being a significant playoff contributor.  Comparing him to those other guys is crazy.

Finding another Maxi would be great (PJ Washington) but there are a lot of other options that would be significant upgrade over Powell.

1 I like Burks a lot. But doubt NY wants to let him go. Also have questions about how the fit with Bullock, as they were together in NY before RB left

2 Cant use TE on any free agent since it expires in June.

3 SNT issue also precludes Bamba (and is he all that good anyhow?) ...I assume he will get offers too big for Mavs to pay, too

4 I get the idea that finding a better center will be hard, and some ideas may not prove to be helpful ... but the Mavs seem to agree its time to move on from DP, right? I have some guys I would GUESS might work and be available, but the answers aren't easy to know.

5 The idea that the need for playoff-playable wing depth might be solved by some combo of THJ and Franky/Green improvements is imo a reasonable solution, and possible, instead of a trade for someone.

6 While they are somewhat hard to find, I bet there are other Maxi's out there. The issue will be to find one who is available, and at a modest price.

7 I am very skeptical that PJ Washington would be the answer - don't even think he's a C at 6-7. However, he might be useful as a big wing, at the 4, but not likely to be available anyway, I suspect.