MavsBoard

(01-16-2022, 02:20 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure why we are in a hurry to get off THJ or Bullock contracts?  For what?  We are going to be over the cap regardless.  THJ contract is descending, so it will grow in value as it ages.  Bullock is not guaranteed in the third year.  The only reason to get off either contract is if you are worried about the tax.

Earlier in the season when this team looked lost I was very skeptical Cuban would be willing to go into the tax.  But now with them playing so much better, he might be more inclined.  If we are willing to go into the tax, there really is no need to get off those contracts (although I would more than happy to trade THJ for a better fitting player).

While I love descending contract structures, you'll have a hard time convincing me that THJ's contract will ever be a value.  If you can get off his contract and bring back a more useful player, that's great.  That's a reason to consider a Brunson trade if it can return a FRP as the hope would be you'd pair that with THJ for someone better or who fits better.  I'm skeptical about Cuban and the tax as many others have outlined here.

(01-16-2022, 12:37 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]I am really curious to see the starting lineup from last night.  Hopefully we give it a good run.   IMO it will give us a good impression of KP's value to the Mavs and his future here. 

This is a great point. Imagine before we were discussing Luka 1st, KP 2nd, and we should find that 3rd that fits. It seems times have changed. Now it's Luka 1st, Brunson 2nd, and we need to find that 3rd player that fits the Luka-Brunson tandem the best. Is that KP? That's the main question at the moment. Does KP fit, or does he not.

(01-16-2022, 03:23 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]The way I remember it Phoenix offered him a deal above what MC would pay and said take it or leave it, but answer right now. Nash said yes on the spot and MC was publicly mostly upset that Nash didn't give him a chance to counter. This is a tactic he regularly uses now in Shark Tank.

Yes, Cuban was given a chance to simply match (or not) the offer by PHX, which was much more than his. The time frame was indeed 'now or never' as you say, but he did know the cost, with a chance to do the deal. He declined, probably somewhat due to feeling he deserved time to be able to negotiate and whittle on it and try to persuade, but also because he just didn't want to pay that price.

(01-16-2022, 11:27 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Straw man:  "Brunson for just a Mav's 1st rounder?  No." 

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You might say your "impression" is people here don't get how valuable Brunson is on-court.  I might say that I get the "impression" that people here are over-valuing him as a trade piece or are under-estimating the risk he leaves for nothing.  That's how conversations work and it is far different than saying "you people who want to give away Brunson for nothing...".  

That helps no one and I'm a bit sensitive to it right now because your belief that that technique was used to misrepresent your positions was a factor in your disagreement with a very good member of this community who is no longer here.

You cite my words, so obviously part of what you say was aimed at me.

Let me assure you that I was not trying to straw man you. In fact, I didn't quote or reply to you (or anyone else in particular) in that post because I was trying to avoid putting words in anyone's mouth.

Instead, by making a general response to the whole thread, I was saying (or trying to say), 'I think this i what I am hearing said. If so, here's my response to it.'

The fact that it triggered you may indicate that you did think that, or something close to it. But if not, an easy reply to my words (when they reflect your thinking) is, "I agree. My thinking is that JB is worth way more than 'just a Mav's 1st rounder' from NY" and then state what YOU would think be suitable.

Yes, sometimes I do say that it's my impression people are saying "______" but again, it's not an attempt to straw man anyone and misrepresent their idea, but instead because I THINK that's the general tenor of what I am hearing. But rather than try to parse words, or target one sentence or another, let me just speak to what I think, and you can agree or disagree.

So ...my apologies if I worded things in a way that you felt was (1) focused at you, and (2) meant to misrepresent, and (3) designed to deride. None of those was meant, and hopefully next time (along with this explanation) my words will be received better.

So all this was a detour from what I intended ... if you (or anyone) thinks the Mavs simply must move JB, what is your minimum ask? I'm way higher than just a low 2023 pick, and expect NY to be the one chasing the deal with much value right and left. You?

(01-16-2022, 03:57 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, Cuban was given a chance to simply match (or not) the offer by PHX, which was much more than his. The time frame was indeed 'now or never' as you say, but he did know the cost, with a chance to do the deal. He declined, probably somewhat due to feeling he deserved time to be able to negotiate and whittle on it and try to persuade, but also because he just didn't want to pay that price.

Yes Cuban was given an option.  At the same time there is a lot of forgotten stuff with Nash. Parker and Bibby  used to own him in the playoffs. Plus Nash always seemed fragile here. 

To his credit he changed his fitness routine and Pnx frankly had a better training staff than the Mavs at that time. Plus with D’Antoni he found another coach like Nellie who could mask his weaknesses and play to his strengths and he was never as good as those 2 MVPs would suggest. At the same time if Amare and Diaw don’t get called for that court violation and get suspended for something Horry started, Nash probably would have had a good chance to have got his first title, despite his obvious warts.

Why is everybody so mad at each other? Mavs are good.

(01-16-2022, 10:30 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Why is everybody so mad at each other? Mavs are good.

It will blow over, my dude. 

And if it doesn't, I'm sure people will step up with crazy Mavs theories of their own.

I do think this is a good time for us all to reflect on the idea that we're friends. Just like Jackie Moon's Flint Tropics, our number 1 rule is:

(01-16-2022, 10:30 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Why is everybody so mad at each other? Mavs are good.

Based on the Tarrant County Covid page I think everyone is on edge because they're all sitting at home with Omicron

(01-16-2022, 10:30 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Why is everybody so mad at each other? Mavs are good.

Not enough Dorian in their hearts.

(01-16-2022, 03:10 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]I'd go for the same move that has put UTA and PHO on top of the West. Adding a borderline All-Star to be Luka's backourt partner. A guy that can go get his and run the offense if needed and could play off the ball as well. Any potential deal to add a major piece into our squad involves getting our pick back, so if the Knicks are keen on getting JB, I'd deal him in return for our pick + Robinson/Kemba.

Right now that player is McCollum (expendable due to Simons' little run). Take a chance and run the with the Luka-CJ-KP tandem with Kemba as a 6th man. Re-sign DFS for the tax MLE (or full MLE if we can avoid it). After this summer we have all our picks to trade ('23 and further for another blockbuster if needed).

DAL in: CJ, Kemba, '23 DAL 1st.
NYK in: Brunson.
POR in: Hardaway, Robinson, Burke, '22 DAL 1st.

Luka/Kemba
CJ/Green
DFS/Bullock
KP/Kleber
Powell/Chriss (come '23 TDL this becomes our priority for upgrades, that starting PF/C to complement KP)

I am skeptical that NYK is going to give up 2 first and Robinson for Brunson.  He is a UFA and they can make room if they have to.

CJ is overpriced, but I don't think they would have any interest in Hardaway or Burke and a I don't see Robinson plus a late first being enough.

Also, your description of CJ sounds a lot like Brunson, who is already roughly as good as CJ, many years younger, and still getting better every year while CJ seems to already be on the slide.  CJ might be a better fit as he is a better catch and shoot player, but this seems like going through a lot of machinations to trade Brunson for an older more expensive player.  I would prefer to just hold onto Brunson unless I am serious worried about him bailing.

(01-16-2022, 11:02 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I am skeptical that NYK is going to give up 2 first and Robinson for Brunson.  He is a UFA and they can make room if they have to.

CJ is overpriced, but I don't think they would have any interest in Hardaway or Burke and a I don't see Robinson plus a late first being enough.

Also, your description of CJ sounds a lot like Brunson, who is already roughly as good as CJ, many years younger, and still getting better every year while CJ seems to already be on the slide.  CJ might be a better fit as he is a better catch and shoot player, but this seems like going through a lot of machinations to trade Brunson for an older more expensive player.  I would prefer to just hold onto Brunson unless I am serious worried about him bailing.

I think that trade has Dallas sending out our 22 first since we are getting back our 23 first.  

I like Brunson over CJ and CJ over THJ so I can kind of understand the logic behind the trade.  I'd want Robinson though.  

Even though New York wants "Brunson badly", I don't even think they'd do my idea of a FRP, salary dump for Kemba and Robinson.

(01-16-2022, 10:30 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Why is everybody so mad at each other? Mavs are good.

(01-16-2022, 03:23 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]The way I remember it Phoenix offered him a deal above what MC would pay and said take it or leave it, but answer right now. Nash said yes on the spot and MC was publicly mostly upset that Nash didn't give him a chance to counter. This is a tactic he regularly uses now in Shark Tank.

This is generally correct. However, as was alluded to above, Cuban was concerned about Nash’s back. For those of us who were around then, Nash had a lot of problems with his back in those early years with Dallas. Cuban wasn’t confident that he would make it the duration of the contract and was hesitant to overpay for him.

(01-16-2022, 10:39 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Based on the Tarrant County Covid page I think everyone is on edge because they're all sitting at home with Omicron

Look, with JB it's all about does he want to bail.

And if he's smart he'll have a view about that which is already formed and is independent of exactly how the rest of this season goes.

And the view will be that he wants to be the starting PG on a team.

But, maybe he's not smart and the Mavs can sweet talk him into staying on the team until they trade him in 24 months time for something shiny-er.

Hence, there is no "value"/"worth" for JB. He completely skews that by whatever he wants. 

Now, if the Mavs know or strongly believe JB wants to run his own show they can try to trade him to NYK - probably could get the 2023 FRP + Obi Toppin (and maybe plus Quickley in addition whilst throwing in Moses? or Burke?). Mitch Robinson might be an asset too far. 

Completely different scenario: Mavs agree to sign and trade JB in the off-season. Other bad scenario, Mavs sign JB and then trade him to where they want. ...

Luka
Jalen
Dorian
Maxi

That’s our core. Home-grown talent. They should be here for the next decade. Josh is a candidate to join them. So is Frank, marginally. It’s the rest of the roster you make available. Not these 6. At least not until Josh or Frank give you reason to. 

Now, can we find a big who can keep this crew from getting bullied? You know, someone built like Marquese Chriss? Or, maybe we just did?

As to Kris, Tim, Reggie and the rest, whatever. I see guys that can help, so I wouldn’t be dumping them. But I wouldn’t cling to em either.

(01-17-2022, 01:23 AM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]You know, someone built like Marquese Chriss? Or, maybe we just did?

Pump those breaks.  Granted he's had some bad luck along the way but if he were a better talent, he wouldn't have been out of the league.  

I'm fine with the home grown talent angle and if you want to build around Luka and Jalen, we need to get rid of our Knick players.

Nash is an interesting comparison in that the complaint was never "the Mavs waited too long to trade him" but rather "Cuban didn't value him properly and lost him because of that."

The best years for the highest contract are for the most players roughly between tge age of 25 and 30. The window is small, chances are few and players, well, everybody knows it. JB will, as it in his interest, demand the highest price possible, for it will be probably his lifetime bonanza deal. So, if Knicks or Celtics or whoever will offer the best money and maybe more important role, he will take it. NBA is business foremostly, as the owners love to remind us when they have to pay for something. So, it is not complicated situation, as everything depends on Cuban to decide how high he want to go, if at all.