(04-05-2022, 11:42 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]There is no clog at all.
I think your chart is misleading. While Din and JB are nominal PG, they play more than just 48 minutes combined and you likely don't want to reduce those. So lets round up their minutes to combined 60 (really they play 62), which takes 12 minutes from the SG spot leaving 36. These are minutes Luka is playing. Powell and Kleber take all center minutes, DFS and Bertans take all PF minutes. So you have 48 minutes left for Bullock, THJ and Green. THJ and his contract demand 30 minutes per game, which means you have 18 left for Bullock and Green.
I think it is clear there is one player too many in the rotation. You lose THJ, his minutes are going to Bullock and Green with the bench (FN, Burke, Brown) taking leftovers. Bascially, what we are playing now.
(04-05-2022, 11:42 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Our playing style can be tiring. Why would we cut down on rotation players.
I think in the end, the good teams play 8 good players and money is concentrated there. Difficult to be a real contender if you have seizable chunks of the cap in bottom of the rotation.
(04-06-2022, 01:35 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think your chart is misleading. While Din and JB are nominal PG, they play more than just 48 minutes combined and you likely don't want to reduce those. So lets round up their minutes to combined 60 (really they play 62), which takes 12 minutes from the SG spot leaving 36. These are minutes Luka is playing. Powell and Kleber take all center minutes, DFS and Bertans take all PF minutes. So you have 48 minutes left for Bullock, THJ and Green. THJ and his contract demand 30 minutes per game, which means you have 18 left for Bullock and Green.
I think it is clear there is one player too many in the rotation. You lose THJ, his minutes are going to Bullock and Green with the bench (FN, Burke, Brown) taking leftovers. Bascially, what we are playing now.
I think in the end, the good teams play 8 good players and money is concentrated there. Difficult to be a real contender if you have seizable chunks of the cap in bottom of the rotation.
The clear move, I think, is to consolidate THJ and Maxi into a single frontcourt player. Of course, other combinations are possible, like Bullock + Green, Maxi + Green, etc.
(04-06-2022, 01:35 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think your chart is misleading.
Every chart is, I tried to keep it simple, maybe a little bit to much.
(04-06-2022, 01:35 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]While Din and JB are nominal PG, they play more than just 48 minutes combined and you likely don't want to reduce those. So lets round up their minutes to combined 60 (really they play 62), which takes 12 minutes from the SG spot leaving 36.
That´s the exact same way I see it.
(04-06-2022, 01:35 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Powell and Kleber take all center minutes, DFS and Bertans take all PF minutes.
Just NO! Powell plays 22 minutes and Maxi even less if possible. Bertans soaks the rest and we will see some occasional Luka/DFS PF/C minutes too.
(04-06-2022, 01:35 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]So you have 48 minutes left for Bullock, THJ and Green. THJ and his contract demand 30 minutes per game, which means you have 18 left for Bullock and Green.
I lost my math, but if I follow yours, there should be enough for Bullock and Green and THJ, if Bertans is only sporadic at PF.
(04-06-2022, 01:35 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think it is clear there is one player too many in the rotation. You lose THJ, his minutes are going to Bullock and Green with the bench (FN, Burke, Brown) taking leftovers. Bascially, what we are playing now.
Burkes minutes without Luka, and Brown make my eye sore. FN is for leftovers or emergency defense.
Don´t want to need any of them if someone is hurting a little.
(04-06-2022, 01:35 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]These are minutes Luka is playing.
I have Luka with mid-to-high 30 minutes no matter what position.
(04-06-2022, 01:35 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think in the end, the good teams play 8 good players and money is concentrated there. Difficult to be a real contender if you have seizable chunks of the cap in bottom of the rotation.
Luka
Brunson/Dinwiddie
THJ/DFS
Bullock/Powell/Maxi
->8
Green and Bertans: Rookie-contract and sunk cost.
By the way, to play 8 good players regulary, you need 9 good players at least, better 10 or 11.
(04-06-2022, 02:58 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Luka
Brunson/Dinwiddie
THJ/DFS
Bullock/Powell/Maxi
->8
Green and Bertans: Rookie-contract and sunk cost.
Agree. But Green will be rookie contract for one more year only. Which leads me again to conclusion there is one guard too many.
(04-06-2022, 02:44 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]The clear move, I think, is to consolidate THJ and Maxi into a single frontcourt player. Of course, other combinations are possible, like Bullock + Green, Maxi + Green, etc.
THJ and Maxi are a match for Gobert if done prior to the new season. After that, Rudy's contract goes up and THJ's goes down and Dallas would have to add something. The same is true of Jimmy Butler, Tobias Harris, Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving if we want to dream a little.
(04-06-2022, 03:43 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Agree. But Green will be rookie contract for one more year only. Which leads me again to conclusion there is one guard too many.
Green: Next season 3Mio, then TO 4.7Mio, then RFA.
Guard to many: Brown/Burke
Is Gobert serious about basketball? Or anything? He seems like an immature 6th grader to me. Which is fine, when you’re in 6th grade. But I’m not convinced any team will be better with his 40mm clogging up their cap and lane. For the right price, I guess you have to take the swing.
(04-06-2022, 12:23 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Is Gobert serious about basketball? Or anything? He seems like an immature 6th grader to me. Which is fine, when you’re in 6th grade. But I’m not convinced any team will be better with his 40mm clogging up their cap and lane. For the right price, I guess you have to take the swing.
I get the same vibes. I really don’t want Gobert and his 40M potential headache. I’m still getting over the KP years…
(04-06-2022, 12:25 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]I get the same vibes. I really don’t want Gobert and his 40M potential headache. I’m still getting over the KP years…
I would probably prefer Capela or Turner from a contract standpoint. But if you can get Gobert for salary filler and our 22, you have to pull the trigger on that. He has to fit better than KP did. Honestly, he seems like the perfect fit with Luka. The personality is a concern, but he is not the type to worry about getting it in his spots.
I also find it interesting that folks are talking up Powell's ability to guard perimeter players based on that list somebody posted, but also argue that Gobert will get played off the court when I believe he was first on that list of centers guarding perimeter players.
(04-06-2022, 12:51 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I would probably prefer Capela or Turner from a contract standpoint. But if you can get Gobert for salary filler and our 22, you have to pull the trigger on that. He has to fit better than KP did. Honestly, he seems like the perfect fit with Luka. The personality is a concern, but he is not the type to worry about getting it in his spots.
I also find it interesting that folks are talking up Powell's ability to guard perimeter players based on that list somebody posted, but also argue that Gobert will get played off the court when I believe he was first on that list of centers guarding perimeter players.
His fit and ability aren't nearly as concerning as his attitude/body language and contract/age. just don't get good vibes when i think of adding Gobert. Id prefer both Capela or Turner at half? the cost and/or concern.
(04-06-2022, 12:23 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Is Gobert serious about basketball? Or anything? He seems like an immature 6th grader to me. Which is fine, when you’re in 6th grade. But I’m not convinced any team will be better with his 40mm clogging up their cap and lane. For the right price, I guess you have to take the swing.
What makes you question his commitment? He's a 3x DPOY award (3 in the last 4 years). He's also a 3x all-star in that span (in a time where voters really didn't want to vote for him either).
It's obvious he's improved himself to be one of the most elite defenders in the league.
(04-06-2022, 12:51 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I would probably prefer Capela or Turner from a contract standpoint. But if you can get Gobert for salary filler and our 22, you have to pull the trigger on that. He has to fit better than KP did. Honestly, he seems like the perfect fit with Luka. The personality is a concern, but he is not the type to worry about getting it in his spots.
I also find it interesting that folks are talking up Powell's ability to guard perimeter players based on that list somebody posted, but also argue that Gobert will get played off the court when I believe he was first on that list of centers guarding perimeter players.
(04-06-2022, 12:56 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]His fit and ability aren't nearly as concerning as his attitude/body language and contract/age. just don't get good vibes when i think of adding Gobert. Id prefer both Capela or Turner at half? the cost and/or concern.
1. I hope the Mavs' front office is in a better position (than the folks on this board) to evaluate Gobert as a "risk" in the locker room. Would it be tampering for Nico to ask Donovan Mitchell for his opinion?
2. Gobert will turn 30 on June 26, 2022. Is he past his prime yet?
3. Salary?
2021-22: $35,344,828
2022-23: $38,172,414
2023-24: $41,000,000
2024-25: $43,827,587
2025-26: $46,655,173
(04-06-2022, 01:00 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]What makes you question his commitment? He's a 3x DPOY award (3 in the last 4 years). He's also a 3x all-star in that span (in a time where voters really didn't want to vote for him either).
It's obvious he's improved himself to be one of the most elite defenders in the league.
1. Gobert is going to lead the NBA in effective field goal percentage again this season (that will make three out of the last four seasons).
2. I think Gobert would improve the Mavs' offense very little, if any.
I think he would improve the Mavs' defense significantly.
(04-06-2022, 01:19 PM)Hogmelon Wrote: [ -> ]1. Gobert is going to lead the NBA in effective field goal percentage again this season (that will make three out of the last four seasons).
2. I think Gobert would improve the Mavs' offense very little, if any. I think he would improve the Mavs' defense significantly.
I agree with everything you say but one.
I think a Gobert+Luka PnR would dominate the league. Luka would actually look for Gobert off the roll and would be able to throw passes that Mitchell/Conley could never.
I can very easily see Gobert becoming a 20ppg scorer here as we just constantly rerun PnR actions with Luka and Powell over and over.
I wane on my want for Gobert, but it's more about Utah's inability to do what they...on paper...should do in the playoffs than anything else. We are a playoff team with Luka, all evaluations need to be made in those terms. I'm gonna watch every Utah game whether or not they play the Mavs and see how he is played and how he plays. If there is any moment that you can't play a guy making $40M+ per year, I have no idea why people would want that?
I think the personality conflict is a bit overblown. Gobert is goofy with a teammate that finds goofiness annoying. Our team is filled with goofy guys.
Edit: Also, this is a guy that worked his way into being what he is now. He's Utah's DFS story, only better.
(04-06-2022, 01:28 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with everything you say but one.
I think a Gobert+Luka PnR would dominate the league. Luka would actually look for Gobert off the roll and would be able to throw passes that Mitchell/Conley could never.
I can very easily see Gobert becoming a 20ppg scorer here as we just constantly rerun PnR actions with Luka and Powell over and over.
I don't know about "very easily," but I also can see Gobert scoring almost as many points per game for the Mavs as
Dwight Powell scored three days ago in Milwaukee against the highly motivated, completely healthy, defending NBA champions.
The Dončić/Powell chemistry is so damn good (and it might even continue to improve), and I just don't know how much better it might be with Gobert.
(04-04-2022, 08:46 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]It is a good conversation and I don't have much to add, at least not something I haven't already said a couple of times 
I would just like to comment on this part. Mavs own 7 of their next 8 picks. I know about Stepien rule and protections on the 2023 pick, but not much creativity is needed to put even 4 picks on the table on draft night, if the right opportunity arises. Even in the summer, Mavs could realistically put 3 picks on the table. This is not little assets. I am certain the great recruiters already have everything agreed with the next disgruntled star we don't even know it is disgruntled yet
The big question for me is what to do if that star doesn't get available or doesn't want to come. Do you go for a move like Boston (White), Denver (Gordon), Clippers (Morris), Miami (Lowry) made in recent years? A good player that costs a pick or two. Makes you better but likely limits your flexibility going forward. Or do you save the assets, perhaps improve around the edges (don't expect much for our role players) and more or less wait for your chance for the big move?
I think playoff result will have a lot of impact on this decision.
I 100% agree with everything you said here (sorry I know this is a late reply, works just been crazy, don't understand why my boss doesn't realize I have important fake GMing to do during my days). When I think about trading our picks, I just feel there is so much more risk to trading picks that are 5 years out vs picks in the more immediate upcoming years. So while we do have the assets to move, it feels like if we used what we could now the risk would be much higher. I would easily be able to talk myself into whatever move we did if I though it made us true contenders but I'm also higher on this current roster than most here. May not be a true contender yet but we haven't even started Luka's new contract so I don't see the harm in waiting one more season before making a kitchen sink offer (although we should always be shopping obviously).
(04-05-2022, 11:02 PM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]Not a fan of Brunson, although I'm very appreciative of what he gives the Mavs and I wouldn't want to lose what he provides. But I can see how he can price himself above what the Mavs should give him, and its wise for him to not give any discount -- unless he likes to compete. he know Luka gives him multiple chances every year to be in the play-offs and win a championship... And speaking of the play-offs, most of us think, the playoffs could determine his value and how much he can be paid. That is true. But I would think JB's playoff performance in comparison to Din-W could draw a picture of what JB and the Mavs think about his role moving forward. If Din provides a clear cut better contribution in the play-offs, then JB might think "Okay, Luka's the PG and Din-W is the PG when Luka's not, so.. do I want to be the third PG and be the undersized SG?"
Gobert will help immensely, specially during the regular season. Although I want him to be on the Mavs, I don't think it's a realistic scenario. If its THJ+Bullock+Brown+one FRP then fine. I wouldn't want to lose Maxi in a Gobert trade when you can't use Gobert in the play-offs. Including Maxi would essentially give the Mavs just DP in the play-offs.
Boban and Theo Pinson, can stay, if they're fine with not playing. If they don't hinder with significant plans for upgrade, then it wouldn't really hurt for the Mavs to have players who's roles has become support players in a different way.
Frankie needs to stay, specially if JB goes out.
The way to go for the other big should be a trade involving THJ. Any big really. If they get a switchable big, then its for the best. but if they get the slower and big bodied ones the that's okay too. At least keep your playoff bigs fresh and let the big C play in the regular season. We've gone over Holmes, Wood and Turner, but a THJ trade plus parts can net you lesser talent in Olynyk, Jaxson Hayes + Nance.
How about Boucher? what's his value? Can the Mavs just add him in free agency? Maybe a small upgrade in the front court would be fine. DP+Maxi+Boucher+Marquis+Boban+a rookie big? Still need to unload Burke and Sterling Brown though.
Although Bullock is a big help when he is connecting form the outside, I just feel Green would be the better player next season. RB's only advantage over Green right now is shooting. I couldn't stress this out: Trading should be THJ goes first before Bullock, and Bullock goes next before Green.
I think any Mavs fan should be a fan of Brunson, he's such an awesome player. Love how he makes NBA bigs look foolish with his play. Usually smaller players have a very tough time scoring inside in the league, but he makes it look easy. FTs away from a 52/40/90 year last season. Still great this year on higher volume. Always room for hyper efficient players on any team. Pretty sure he's by far the best 2nd round draft pick in Mavs history. If we do end up losing him, it's KP's fault really. I think a deal would have to get our pick back from the Knicks and fix the shitty cap situation somehow.
Is Jaxson Hayes considered a lesser talent? I don't think so, he's flashing a lot of potential with his defense and outside shot so his value should be pretty high. But maybe he's gettable for not too much due to him being on the last year of his deal and possibly not being resigned. Maybe wouldn't want to pay up for a guy that is likely coming off the bench when Zion comes back. They have their stars and just need complimentary pieces, maybe we can do a deal for a 3&D roleplayer or something. Bullock & the 2022 1st for Hayes + Garrett Temple. Not sure if they even want draft picks though, they have a ridiculous amount as is. 22/23/24 Lakers 1st rounders and some. He's definitely my favorite center target of the future now though. He's currently playing PF for NO and lives on the perimeter on D.
Boucher is 6'9 200lbs. He's long but that doesn't matter, don't think he can play center even in Kidd's system. Maybe a decent bench PF though. Probably will get around MLE money anyways?
(04-05-2022, 12:58 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Good stuff! I think Green is part of the calculus on what to do with having so many guys who can play SF/SG. Specifically, if the right deal came along for THJ, I think how they see Green plays a role in going there. Same would apply to trade scenarios involving Bullock. Six guys all deserving rotation minutes at the 1, 2 and 3 (not to mention DFS when two bigs are playing with him) isn’t the best way to construct a playoff rotation. Someone can be turned into something better at another position and if it isn’t Green as the outgoing, I think he plays a role in the team being able to pull the trigger on someone else.
While I follow your rationale, I don't agree at all. Yes, there's an extra G piece that should be used if possible to chase someone, but to me the surplus is THJ (because of lack of fit), not THJ/Brunson/whoever draws offers. Plus, I don't think the Mavs would entertain offers for JB - he's a good player and a good fit (which isn't always the case)
(04-06-2022, 01:00 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]What makes you question his commitment? He's a 3x DPOY award (3 in the last 4 years). He's also a 3x all-star in that span (in a time where voters really didn't want to vote for him either).
It's obvious he's improved himself to be one of the most elite defenders in the league.
This is a good question. It’s my impression, and I’m not entirely sure what the basis is for it. Certainly it’s nothing as concrete as the array of evidence you just laid out. And that has me rethinking.
Not ready to admit error, especially since Smitty’s response seems to have my back. (He posts like he’s a smart dude.) But nothing I can come up with right now sounds convincing. Not even to me.
(04-06-2022, 09:19 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]This is a good question. It’s my impression, and I’m not entirely sure what the basis is for it. Certainly it’s nothing as concrete as the array of evidence you just laid out. And that has me rethinking.
Not ready to admit error, especially since Smitty’s response seems to have my back. (He posts like he’s a smart dude.) But nothing I can come up with right now sounds convincing. Not even to me.
The thing is, the biggest red flag is that Rudy seems to not be well liked universally around the league. Basically every star player doesn't have nice things to say about him. There also have been reports that he's generally an ass to be around (remember reading something from McMahon pre-pandemic that was one of the first negative things about UTA and he mentioned that).
So maybe that could explain that feeling you have? To be fair, I also am worried about Gobert's attitude (not so much as his commitment to winning), mostly because of how unliked he is amongst his peers. But then I remember these guys don't have to like each other to play well and the Luka-Gobert PnR would be such a fit that it couldn't go wrong.