(05-16-2022, 01:41 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]That Hollinger article expresses my point exactly. Also, love the coining of space ball lol
Paraphrasing "What teams need are their own versions of Grant Williams, PJ Tucker, Maxi Kleber"
Hollinger reads my posts, confirmed.
then what center would fit in that space ball ..??
(05-16-2022, 01:41 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]That Hollinger article expresses my point exactly. Also, love the coining of space ball lol
Paraphrasing "What teams need are their own versions of Grant Williams, PJ Tucker, Maxi Kleber"
I don't really see those guys in the same group as Maxi as they don't generally man the 5 hole, which Maxi has been doing exclusively since the trade and throughout the playoffs. Maybe you could get a way with Tucker, but he does not really rebound or protect the rim. In Boston its Horford that allows them to play 5 out. Its a shame we didn't try trading KP for Horford last offseason. He would have been perfect here.
(05-16-2022, 03:17 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I don't really see those guys in the same group as Maxi as they don't generally man the 5 hole, which Maxi has been doing exclusively since the trade and throughout the playoffs. Maybe you could get a way with Tucker, but he does not really rebound or protect the rim. In Boston its Horford that allows them to play 5 out. Its a shame we didn't try trading KP for Horford last offseason. He would have been perfect here.
I'll hold a massive "L" on Horford as I thought he was way too old and got way too big of a contract.
Tucker can still play good defense even if he can't block shots like Maxi. It's funny you mentioned rebounding, which you are mostly correct about, but he had some huge offensive boards to put the 76ers away. Dude is a corner sniper too. On the Mavs, he'd play the 5 spot. I wonder how much the Bucks regret not signing him.
(05-16-2022, 03:47 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/1iLzHqmJLt5tX8Iw/giphy.gif)
There is a ludicrous/Luka speed joke here somewhere but I'm to exhausted to be witty.
Another thing, regarding Maxi and our need for another 5-out center, is that as great as he has been on this run (and he has been!), for two months before the playoffs started he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. If that cold streak had continued into the playoffs we'd be sitting at home right now. So Maxi is invaluable to us, but we also can't just assume he will maintain this level of play, or health, forever.
(05-16-2022, 05:15 PM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]Another thing, regarding Maxi and our need for another 5-out center, is that as great as he has been on this run (and he has been!), for two months before the playoffs started he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. If that cold streak had continued into the playoffs we'd be sitting at home right now. So Maxi is invaluable to us, but we also can't just assume he will maintain this level of play, or health, forever.
Agreed. You also have to include his injury history as well. After Brunson, frontcourt depth has to be the priority.
Myles Turner would be ideal but I'm kind of worried we'll get outbid by the Suns now. Turner and Brogdon for Ayton would make a ton of sense for both teams.
(05-16-2022, 05:31 PM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]Myles Turner would be ideal but I'm kind of worried we'll get outbid by the Suns now. Turner and Brogdon for Ayton would make a ton of sense for both teams.
That...makes a lot of sense. Seems like a good trade for both teams
(05-16-2022, 05:31 PM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]Myles Turner would be ideal but I'm kind of worried we'll get outbid by the Suns now. Turner and Brogdon for Ayton would make a ton of sense for both teams.
That's why it's good to have multiple targets and the market should allow for that this offseason. Find the best deal and don't get too caught up in the bidding wars that may result in an overpay.
(05-16-2022, 05:31 PM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]Myles Turner would be ideal but I'm kind of worried we'll get outbid by the Suns now. Turner and Brogdon for Ayton would make a ton of sense for both teams.
If the point of the whole exercise is to avoid the luxury tax, then the deal that makes most sense is Turner + picks for Ayton. Add Brogdon and they go $20M into the tax.
I´m more interested in Jalen Smith anyway, and an Ayton acquisition would increase the likelihood of Smith leaving. We can offer him two things nobody else can: compete for the starting C spot on a legit play-off contender and a chance to play with the walking ATM Luka Doncic.
But let´s assume for a second that Brogdon is part of the deal and they do go $20M into the tax and Sarver is still cheap. Then I´d look at some asset management move. Saric + Suns lottery protected 2023 1st round pick into our TPE plus Payne for Burke + Chriss. Saves the Suns about $11.5M next year and we only add $2M in salary (Payne buyout) beyond next summer.
(05-16-2022, 10:00 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]Turner and Collins can't defend the perimeter or shoot the three like Kleber. Turner and Collins are targets for apex predators like Luka.
Kleber is so valuable because he defends like a wing and is a real threat as a catch & shoot marksman.
So, yes, if you can find "another Kleber" that's ideal ...but I'm not sure who that player might be. A more realistic option might be another long wing with a 6' 11" wingspan, who defends 3, 4, 5 and is a deadeye catch & shooter who should be available for something close to the MLE. Prince or similar.
This!
Other Kleber’s (imho) include Dorian Finney-Smith (when we don’t hafta use him to defend smalls), Marquis Chriss (if he develops as hoped), and Nicholas Batum (who has a $3.3 million player option he ought to decline). I am also curious about Precious Achiuwa (who ought to be a starter), De’Andre Hunter (who fits in our TE), and Jerami Grant (who likely costs too much) in the center role. Each of the 6 listed above has a wingspan of 7 ft or more.
I have asked before in this thread, what would it take to get Achiuwa, whose contract is only 2.7 million? I would gladly send Toronto Josh Green (whom I LOVE) and #26. But I doubt that’s enough.
(05-16-2022, 11:57 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]This!
Other Kleber’s (imho) include Dorian Finney-Smith (when we don’t hafta use him to defend smalls), Marquis Chriss (if he develops as hoped), and Nicholas Batum (who has a $3.3 million player option he ought to decline). I am also curious about Precious Achiuwa (who ought to be a starter), De’Andre Hunter (who fits in our TE), and Jerami Grant (who likely costs too much) in the center role. Each of the 6 listed above has a wingspan of 7 ft or more.
I have asked before in this thread, what would it take to get Achiuwa, whose contract is only 2.7 million? I would gladly send Toronto Josh Green (whom I LOVE) and #26. But I doubt that’s enough.
In my mind a true Kleber is not really about wingspan, its a big 3&D wing that can protect the rim and rebound. To me, Covington is the ideal Maxi clone (or really, Maxi is a Covington clone). It's a shame we couldn't/didn't get him in Portland fire sale. A pick two frontcourt of DFS/Covington/Maxi would have been awesome.
I think the closest thing to a Maxi starter kit would be PJ Washington, who I believe is on the block and might be had for our pick.
(05-17-2022, 12:57 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I think the closest thing to a Maxi starter kit would be PJ Washington, who I believe is on the block and might be had for our pick.
Now we’re talking about things that make sense.
(05-17-2022, 12:57 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]In my mind a true Kleber is not really about wingspan, its a big 3&D wing that can protect the rim and rebound. To me, Covington is the ideal Maxi clone (or really, Maxi is a Covington clone). It's a shame we couldn't/didn't get him in Portland fire sale. A pick two frontcourt of DFS/Covington/Maxi would have been awesome.
I think the closest thing to a Maxi starter kit would be PJ Washington, who I believe is on the block and might be had for our pick.
You might be right about both. I’ve wondered about Covington but thought he mostly played alongside someone bigger. I haven’t seen PJ play. Both look the type.
The other PJ—PJ Tucker—is too short and slow for that role. Too old too imho. He’s a Reggie Bullock type as I see it. (Someone mentioned him earlier. Don’t think it was you.)
Absolutely think that any big needs to be able to move his feet. Also think that Ayton fits into that role. Looking at Luka´s matchup numbers. Holding Luka to 41.9% from the floor. 28.6% from 3.
In comparisation. Bridges giving up 58.1%, CP3 55%, Cam Johnson 47.1%. Individually Ayton put up the best matchup numbers among guys that defended more than 20 FGA.
Doesn´t mean that Ayton was great or played good defense. Takes more than shot contest numbers to determine his impact but it shows that he can hold his own on the perimeter. Would argue that the rest is about the Suns scheme.