(01-06-2022, 11:09 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]To me he would move the needle.
Much being the keyword. As a player he bring more to the table than THJ aside from his abysmal 3P%. That's a terrible contract though.
Luka + KP + Harris = $107.1m next year and $113.7m the following.
I'd just look for better compensation. Also, THJ had some suitors this offseason so there may be a more favorable way to dump his contract.
(01-06-2022, 11:05 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Normally I'd agree with you. But in this specific case, the knowledge that Dallas was ready and willing to replace THJ with Lowry and only signed THJ once that fell through changes the calculus for me a little. I suspect Dallas would have no problem including him in the right deal. Now whether they'd do it for Harris -- your guess is as good as mine.
My one hope is that Nico is finally ready to assert himself. The question becomes if his eyes are seeing what our eyes are seeing.
(01-06-2022, 10:13 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Here is another Philly based article where Dallas get Tobias, Reed AND a 23 pick for THJ/Maxi
https://thesixersense.com/2022/01/05/six...kes-sense/
Honestly wouldn't mind the trade. I love Maxi and think his defense is all-team worthy, but there is a limit to who he is as a player. He's already approaching 30 as well.
Tobias theoretically brings the floor stretching ability of Maxi and shot creating ability of THJ in 1 guy. Mavs getting a pick is a cherry on top too.
(01-06-2022, 11:22 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I'd just look for better compensation. Also, THJ had some suitors this offseason so there may be a more favorable way to dump his contract.
What if the trade was Harris+Curry for Maxi+THJ+Bullock? Mavs don't get a pick but get back a guy they never should've dealt in the first place.
(01-07-2022, 12:47 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly wouldn't mind the trade. I love Maxi and think his defense is all-team worthy, but there is a limit to who he is as a player. He's already approaching 30 as well.
Tobias theoretically brings the floor stretching ability of Maxi and shot creating ability of THJ in 1 guy. Mavs getting a pick is a cherry on top too.
What if the trade was Harris+Curry for Maxi+THJ+Bullock? Mavs don't get a pick but get back a guy they never should've dealt in the first place.
Harris is shooting under 30% from three this year. I'm not sure he's a floor stretcher. I'd still want more than that Seth trade.
Man, I’d love to get Seth back here…
I find Tobias Harris interesting, he’s bounced around the league quite a bit but never really know why he hasn’t found a long term home. I know Timmy is frustrating to watch right now but his deal is much more friendly than Harris’s contract, so for that reason I lean against it (adding Powell to THJ becomes more appealing), however adding a Philly draft pick would give us 2 picks to trade at the draft (or 1 pick to trade at the deadline) and that is also interesting since it would open up possibilities to other packages centered around JB and a 1st come February.
(01-07-2022, 01:14 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Harris is shooting under 30% from three this year. I'm not sure he's a floor stretcher. I'd still want more than that Seth trade.
What about a massive 3 team deal between PHI POR and DAL?
PHI gets: CJ McCollum+Maxi
DAL gets: RoCo+Nurkic
POR gets: Ben Simmons+THJ
(01-07-2022, 02:00 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]What about a massive 3 team deal between PHI POR and DAL?
PHI gets: CJ McCollum+Maxi
DAL gets: RoCo+Nurkic
POR gets: Ben Simmons+THJ
Roco and Nurk are expiring. I'm not sure RoCo is RoCo anymore. You'd basically be using Maxi's positive value to get off of the THJ contract. I still say THJ is a neutral asset. That frees up 28.6m for next year's cap but you'd have to make decisions on DFS, JB, RoCo and Nurk.
Nurk's a rental. He's just too injury prone to pair with KP. You'd probably want to resign the rest and I'm guessing that costs you 40m per year. That puts you in the tax. There is also the little matter of convincing RoCo to stay. You'd also need help at the 5 spot as you'd be down to Powell, KP and Boban.
getting Harris is a definite improvement for sure .. But kill, whatever Flexibility we can have, he's making $ 34 ... he would lock up Luka / KP / Harris and he's neither a good 3 shooter nor a good defender ... Don't rush ... In low season a Brunson (ST) + Powell (Expiring) + (Draft Selection) + future 1.. puts us in line for the 2/3 violin..Beal / Siakam / Isaak / Ingram or whoever
How about this trade idea:
Dallas gets Ben Simmons
Philadelphia gets Brunson and Hayward
Charlotte gets Kristaps Porzingis
Dallas gets a defensive guard to pair with Luka.
They can have a starting lineup of Luka, BS, RB, DFS, Maxi. 3 and D players mitigate Simmons' lack of three-point shooting. They will have a very stauch defensive line up.
Philly gets scorers and playmakers in JB and GH. They can start with JB, Green, Hayward, Harris, Embiid.
Charlotte gets their center in KP.
I would not trade Brunson for Simmons straight up even if it was CBA legal.
(01-06-2022, 10:59 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Yep. I would much rather send out Powell or Bullock than Maxi, but Harris would be a good fit on this team.
I say that, but Tobias is a PF. You would obviously make this trade to start him. You can't start KP, Harris and a center. That wont work. So this trade would be predicated on them giving up that silliness (at least starting games) or you would need to trade away KP.
A couple of reminders before I get to my main point...
The silliness of the Powell/KP pairing has produced a net rating of 8.5 in their 19 games together since 11/15. The stench of the first month of the season has probably wrongly influenced too many of us to believe these two can't co-exist. The recent trend is positive.
A reminder for those who only looked at Harris's 3% for the current season and deduced he's not a floor spacer. He has a higher career 3% than Hardaway.
Now to my point. Yes, you would start Harris (or Simmons) in the front court next to KP. That would leave Luka, DFS and _______ as the other starters with __________ either being Brunson or Bullock. Harris is THJ-esque in his defensive prowess, but a much better ball handler and initiator. If he starts you probably have to return Brunson to the bench. Is that a good strategy for retention? Probably not. But, if you start Brunson, Harris and Luka, you have the same defensive issue you had when Hardaway was starting. The protected pick in 23 might interest me if it was unprotected, but this trade doesn't jive with Kidd's effort to improve the D.
Simmons next to KP on the other hand, would probably make us the best D in the league (KP, Simmons, DFS, RB and Luka). You don't have to worry about how Brunson will feel being moved to the bench because he was part of the deal. I think we overrate Maxi around here and it seems Chriss could be on a path to replace much of what Maxi does. Removing THJ and Brunson would kill our bench scoring. You'd have to stagger Luka and Simmons and neither playing alongside Frank, Green and Sterling provides enough three point shooting to make the roll ability of either Powell or Chriss useful. We would definitely need to draft or sign another ball-handler who can hit a three and hope Green turns into a knock-down outside shooter himself. I don't think a Simmons deal makes us better in 2022. The question is can you build around KP/Simmons/DFS and Luka and be better in the long term?
We probably want to go down the inner growth path and bring Jalen / Dodo back .. So this gives us ... Luka / Brunson / DFS /? / KP ... With Green / Frank / Bullock / MaxiChris as part of the important core + maybe Boban for Chemistry .. We have Powell (expiring next year) THJ + Draft picks to improve .. A starting striker and a game director for the 2nd unit, would be the duties ... Where does THJ / Powell + Picks take you .. ?? My dream would be Siakam in 1 place..Randle / Isaak..Grant / Barnes Then maybe more realistic PJWashinton / Clarke / Cam Johnson .. I really think we're in for a good move and luck with the injuries ... from making a lot of noise
(01-07-2022, 09:04 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]A couple of reminders before I get to my main point...
The silliness of the Powell/KP pairing has produced a net rating of 8.5 in their 19 games together since 11/15. The stench of the first month of the season has probably wrongly influenced too many of us to believe these two can't co-exist. The recent trend is positive.
A reminder for those who only looked at Harris's 3% for the current season and deduced he's not a floor spacer. He has a higher career 3% than Hardaway.
Now to my point. Yes, you would start Harris (or Simmons) in the front court next to KP. That would leave Luka, DFS and _______ as the other starters with __________ either being Brunson or Bullock. Harris is THJ-esque in his defensive prowess, but a much better ball handler and initiator. If he starts you probably have to return Brunson to the bench. Is that a good strategy for retention? Probably not. But, if you start Brunson, Harris and Luka, you have the same defensive issue you had when Hardaway was starting. The protected pick in 23 might interest me if it was unprotected, but this trade doesn't jive with Kidd's effort to improve the D.
Simmons next to KP on the other hand, would probably make us the best D in the league (KP, Simmons, DFS, RB and Luka). You don't have to worry about how Brunson will feel being moved to the bench because he was part of the deal. I think we overrate Maxi around here and it seems Chriss could be on a path to replace much of what Maxi does. Removing THJ and Brunson would kill our bench scoring. You'd have to stagger Luka and Simmons and neither playing alongside Frank, Green and Sterling provides enough three point shooting to make the roll ability of either Powell or Chriss useful. We would definitely need to draft or sign another ball-handler who can hit a three and hope Green turns into a knock-down outside shooter himself. I don't think a Simmons deal makes us better in 2022. The question is can you build around KP/Simmons/DFS and Luka and be better in the long term?
Harris is not a good defender. He is not DFS/Maxi level. But he is also not THJ bad. He is roughly average. I do agree he makes putting Brunson in the starting lineup less sense. Honestly its hard to see upgrading this roster and wanting either THJ or Brunson in the starting lineup. In an ideal world we ship THJ out and keep Brunson as 6th man, but I don't think he stays for that.
There is some overrating of Maxi. I'm one of the biggest culprits. If made a list of who I want to keep on the team, he would come in third behind Luka and DFS. But its a huge stretch to suggest Chriss can come close to replacing him. Maxi is a better more versatile defender, and his ability to stretch the floor allows him to fit into so many lineups. Chriss would be a Powell replacement, not a Maxi one.
As for Simmons, I can't imagine Morey pulling the trigger for Brunson/THJ/Maxi. That is just not the kind of package I see them going after. I also have a lot of concerns about having both KP and Simmons. We are already restructuring our offense presumably to make KP happy to the apparent detriment of performance. What are going to do when we add Simmons into the mix? We already have a lot of folks wanting to ship KP out because of availability risk or fit concerns or both. It seems like adding Simmons just doubles down on all of that risk and fit issues.
Regarding Harris. He has been a good 3-point shooter in past seasons but I don´t think he is the kind of floorspacer some imagine him to be. The Simmson/Embiid duo already created a lot of spacing issues but Harris contributed as well. Just like Embiid he likes to operate in the highpost/ellbow area. I would be afraid that a Harris/KP pairing would run into similar problems.
(01-07-2022, 10:56 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding Harris. He has been a good 3-point shooter in past seasons but I don´t think he is the kind of floorspacer some imagine him to be. The Simmson/Embiid duo already created a lot of spacing issues but Harris contributed as well. Just like Embiid he likes to operate in the highpost/ellbow area. I would be afraid that a Harris/KP pairing would run into similar problems.
So just trading KP alleviates all of that…simple! To me, he’s at the point where he’s shown what he can be on another team. That has to rehab his value. Question is will Nico/Cuban pull that trigger?
(01-07-2022, 11:24 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]To me, he’s at the point where he’s shown what he can be on another team.
This is true. It's hard to imagine his value getting any higher, imo.
I really think it's now or never.
In theory, Harris would be a good fit. On the negative side, he does appear to wear out his welcome at places. Supposedly he is a great guy so it is not like he is a cancer on a team. But it just appears he loses some luster after you have him for a while. Plus, I hate taking on other teams mistakes on bad contracts when trying to improve our roster. In order to make the $ work, I would probably just pass.
Oh, another thing. I’m out on this “evaluation of what we have” time period. I was ok sith it through Christmas because we couldn’t trade half the guys who need to be traded anyway, especially KP (he needed this stretch of games to show he’s still got something).
At this point, they have previous years and JK’s assessment himself (he said something to the point that this team was built for offense, not the defensive style he wants to run), that is plenty of evaluation!
(01-07-2022, 11:29 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Oh, another thing. I’m out on this “evaluation of what we have” time period. I was ok sith it through Christmas because we couldn’t trade half the guys who need to be traded anyway, especially KP (he needed this stretch of games to show he’s still got something).
At this point, they have previous years and JK’s assessment himself (he said something to the point that this team was built for offense, not the defensive style he wants to run), that is plenty of evaluation!
Then you better call Nico and tell him to trade someone!
Hey, btw, did you see that I saw what you did...
https://www.mavsboard.com/showthread.php?tid=1604&pid=118534#pid118534
(01-07-2022, 11:26 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]This is true. It's hard to imagine his value getting any higher, imo.
I really think it's now or never.
The only issue is it takes two to tango. Are we settling for what we can find, or are we only pulling the trigger if a good trade comes up? I really don't know what KP trade value is right now. Here is a rough stab at what I could see as possible trades:
KP for Hayward. This would have made more sense last offseason when we could have acquired a starting center in free agency. Now this trade makes us crazy light in starting big men. Hayward also has almost as many injury concerns as KP, is not the player he was and probably not as good as KP, and is 31 vs 26. I would have pulled this trigger in the offseason, but not sure if I would now.
KP for CJ McCollum. This is another case where I think KP is the better player and a lot younger. CJ does have the advantage of availability (no injury concerns). This trade would very likely include Nurkic. Something like KP/Bullock for CJ/Nurk. That would make a lot of sense for the Blazers as they start Bullock as small forward and can push Powell down to his natural shooting guard position. The Mavs get a true starting center (when healthy) and a high quality shooting guard that fits well with Luka (although the defense is a concern). I would not do the straight up trade, but Nurk makes it more interesting. If he fits well with Luka and stays, it might be worth it.
KP/Brunson for Simmons. This would require a third team, and I don't really know how likely it is. We have talked a lot about this one. I don't think I would do it as I think the risk is even higher than holding onto KP is.
One interesting thing about all of these trades is that it makes it less likely to start Brunson, which makes it less like he would want to stay. There is an argument that if you are going to trade KP, you probably want to trade Brunson as well. What could a KP/Brunson package land (other than potentially Simmons)? Any other reasonable KP trade ideas?