You know I was thinking about Ben Simmons. I don't think Dallas has an offer Philly would want. But a JB, Hardaway and Maxi offer would be a fair offer. I just don't think Philly would be interested as I am not sure how many of those guys would close games for Philly.
It would carry some risk for Dallas and I really don't want to lose Brunson. But it would, in theory, clear up Dallas roster some:
Luka- Goran(if bought out)
Bullock- Frank
DFS- Green
Simmons-
KP- Powell
I am not sure that team has enough shooting and you would really need to rebuild/develop your bench moving forward but it would be interesting.
It is probably a non starter for Philly though...so.....
(01-06-2022, 02:41 PM)Mikelo Wrote: [ -> ]What do you think of Dallas native JRandle .. Maybe I would have to wait for the offseason..something from Brunson (ST) + to Randle and eat Kemba .. would it make sense for both teams ..? ..
Great versatile, which I think would fit well .. between Luka / KP as 2/3 violin .. A very good rebounder, excellent passer passes his position, he can change in defense ... he marks some boxes that would be very good for us .. As an option n1 in Knicks he feels overwhelmed, ... but in the Mavs he would not have that problem .. He is 27 years old, his best moment is yet to come (although his performance last season would raise us dramatically) ... I have no idea .. but if the Knicks continue their lackluster season, I wouldn't be surprised he was available.( If it were for the Knicks fans that I read on forums, they would have already moved him for salary space even ...)
Brunson(ST)18$?/Bullock to Knicks
Randle/Kemba(TPE) to Mavs
KP/Randle/DFS/Green or Frank/Luka..
Powell/Maxi/THJ/JG or FN/Kemba..
Not bad
thoughts?
would you like to see it on Mavs?
Don't really like his fit. He is not a particularly good defender and most of his offense requires the ball being in his hands. He is also known for bonehead plays on both sides of the ball, and turns the ball over a lot (3.5/game). A lot of his game involves post ups and we are already having issues merging KP post ups with Luka. He is not really a rim runner or a rim protector and his shooting from outside last year looks like a one year outlier. Plus, if they are looking to dump him for salary, why would we give up our best asset for him?
(01-06-2022, 04:17 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]It would carry some risk for Dallas and I really don't want to lose Brunson. But it would, in theory, clear up Dallas roster some:
Luka- Goran(if bought out)
Bullock- Frank
DFS- Green
Simmons-
KP- Powell
I am not sure that team has enough shooting and you would really need to rebuild/develop your bench moving forward but it would be interesting.
The thing I really like about a Luka/Simmons/DFS/KP core is how versatile it would be in terms of ballhandling, scoring, and defense. I agree that it would need more shooting, but the cool thing is that you could mix in a shooter at literally any position and I think it would work. The foundation is that strong.
I also agree that something like Brunson/THJ/Maxi doesn't have the star power that Morey wants. But the way Brunson has developed, I think it would compete with most non-Lillard or Beal offers we're seen thrown out there. If nobody is trading a star, the next step is to just get the most talent possible. And that offer ain't too bad in terms of players that can help them win right now.
In any case, it will be interesting to see what happens when teams get serious at the deadline. I have a tough time seeing Morey letting it go beyond that, so it may just come down to who has the best offer ready at the right time.
(01-06-2022, 07:12 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]The thing I really like about a Luka/Simmons/DFS/KP core is how versatile it would be in terms of ballhandling, scoring, and defense. I agree that it would need more shooting, but the cool thing is that you could mix in a shooter at literally any position and I think it would work. The foundation is that strong.
I also agree that something like Brunson/THJ/Maxi doesn't have the star power that Morey wants. But the way Brunson has developed, I think it would compete with most non-Lillard or Beal offers we're seen thrown out there. If nobody is trading a star, the next step is to just get the most talent possible. And that offer ain't too bad in terms of players that can help them win right now.
In any case, it will be interesting to see what happens when teams get serious at the deadline. I have a tough time seeing Morey letting it go beyond that, so it may just come down to who has the best offer ready at the right time.
I've been struggling with this and with the versions involving Tobias Harris. I don't really know where I land on either and have luke-warm feelings toward the deal proposed above. I went back and watched some video on Simmons as I suffer from recency bias. The playoffs are so etched in my memory that I forget what a stud Simmons is when he's right. A few thoughts related to the proposal for Simmons:
He plays the kind of downhill style Kidd seems to like.
As much as we all love Brunson, he is a flight risk. Philly is one of two places (Knicks) where I think they wouldn't have to worry about the local hero bolting in free agency.
Maybe Chriss can absorb some of what we are losing with Maxi?
If THJ was hitting 37% of his 3's, I might shed a tear over losing him, but he's not. Plus, this may open more time for Josh Green.
As constructed, Philly would probably want to get rid of more salary to get under the tax. They have a non-guaranteed contract that allows them to do a 3 for 2 or 2 for 1, but as proposed, I'm wondering if they wouldn't send out Danny Green also? They would need to lose a little over $5mm in salary.
I'm not in favor of a KP trade yet, so I guess I have to hold my nose on JB, Maxi and THJ if I want Simmons here without giving up KP. I just need to see more of how the staff melds KP and Luka together before pulling that trigger.
I understand the sentiment that Philly would want more than these three, but they've been trying for months and haven't gotten it. I certainly don't give up more than the proposed deal.
I am still in favor of a Simmons experiment, but I'm not as hyped about it as I was over the summer, especially now that I've seen the Mavs' new offense in action.
I am absolutely not in favor of bringing Simmons in without shipping Porzingis out. We have to stop thinking of Porzingis as a spacer - that's his main value to a good offense, imo, but he is simply not being used that way this season. I shudder to think what this thing would look like when Luka has the ball with Simmons, Porzingis AND a center on the floor with him.
(01-06-2022, 08:27 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]As constructed, Philly would probably want to get rid of more salary to get under the tax. They have a non-guaranteed contract that allows them to do a 3 for 2 or 2 for 1, but as proposed, I'm wondering if they wouldn't send out Danny Green also? They would need to lose a little over $5mm in salary.
So the trade can be in 2 parts: Brunson/THJ/Maxi for Simmons, and Danny Green into the TPE for a 2nd rounder. Both teams end up well under the tax, and since Green's deal is non-guaranteed next season Dallas could even get some extra relief to help offset Luka's big raise and whatever they offer DFS.
Also, I'm sure Followill would have fun with a potential Green/Green/Brown/Brown lineup.
(01-06-2022, 09:18 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Brunson/THJ/Maxi for Simmons, and Danny Green into the TPE for a 2nd rounder.
I honestly will be SHOCKED if PHI is able to get a better player than JB in a Simmons trade. Shocked.
(01-06-2022, 10:13 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Here is another Philly based article where Dallas get Tobias, Reed AND a 23 pick for THJ/Maxi
https://thesixersense.com/2022/01/05/six...kes-sense/
I don't see why the Mavs would do this. I don't know a lot about Reed but I'd want more than a late first round pick for giving up Maxi and taken on 2.5 years of that Harris contract. I
might be more interested if it were THJ/Powell.
(01-06-2022, 09:20 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I honestly will be SHOCKED if PHI is able to get a better player than JB in a Simmons trade. Shocked.
I really struggle with Brunson's trade value. For one, he will be a UFA in a couple of months. How much value is 2 months of Brunson and bird rights worth? Do these kind of trades happen with a future contract settled on? Otherwise the buying team is incurring a lot of risk that he just walks (what we are worried about now).
Also, Brunson is at his most valuable when he is the primary creator on offense. Most of his biggest games are when he starts because Luka is out, and otherwise he is at his best running the second unit. He really is a poor man's Luka. The reality is he is a perfect 6th man (one of the problems with this team is that we have 2 6th men and not enough starters). I think its still an open question how effective he can be as a regular starter complementing Luka. I feel like this is something the Mavs really need to evaluate before the TDL because I think its less likely he stays here to be a 6th man.
(01-06-2022, 10:38 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I really struggle with Brunson's trade value. For one, he will be a UFA in a couple of months. How much value is 2 months of Brunson and bird rights worth? Do these kind of trades happen with a future contract settled on?
I'm as high on him as anyone, but he's not prime LeBron hitting free agency. I'm reasonably confident that a team willing to trade for him because they have a competitive salary and huge, featured role for him in mind could probably get his ink on the paper.
(01-06-2022, 10:26 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see why the Mavs would do this. I don't know a lot about Reed but I'd want more than a late first round pick for giving up Maxi and taken on 2.5 years of that Harris contract. I might be more interested if it were THJ/Powell.
Reed is another big project, like we don't have enough of those. I would make the trade for THJ/Powell without the pick (or reed) in a heartbeat. I would do THJ/Bullock as well. If I had the choice of THJ/Bullock or overspending on Harris, I would go with the later. He makes so much more sense than THJ on this team. Maxi would be a lot harder for me to give up.
(01-06-2022, 10:38 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I really struggle with Brunson's trade value. For one, he will be a UFA in a couple of months. How much value is 2 months of Brunson and bird rights worth? Do these kind of trades happen with a future contract settled on? Otherwise the buying team is incurring a lot of risk that he just walks (what we are worried about now).
Also, Brunson is at his most valuable when he is the primary creator on offense. Most of his biggest games are when he starts because Luka is out, and otherwise he is at his best running the second unit. He really is a poor man's Luka. The reality is he is a perfect 6th man (one of the problems with this team is that we have 2 6th men and not enough starters). I think its still an open question how effective he can be as a regular starter complementing Luka. I feel like this is something the Mavs really need to evaluate before the TDL because I think its less likely he stays here to be a 6th man.
I'm overly critical of JB so grain of salt. While I think he could start for a lot of team, I don't think he's a starter on a contender. I've noticed a lot of missteps from his passing game this year while running breaks, throwing lobs or making simple entry passes. The kid can get buckets though and he has some CP3-like craftiness when it comes to his midrange game and getting to the basket. I think his confidence in himself and lack of confidence in the units he runs with gives him horse blinders at times. If he develops a better outside shot (particularly on catch-and-shoot) he'll be lethal on that end of the floor. Given the opportunity, he can probably give you 20 points a night.
Where I struggle is what to pay him. I'm mostly stuck in the 8-12m range and I'm guessing he'll get more. As far as trade value, Mavs could give permission for the trading team to talk to him and his agent before finalizing. They could hash through what he's looking for in terms of future salary (surely his agent has gauged his market), role on the team and if it's a city he wants to play/live in.
As far as that being the principle return for Simmons, Morey has his heights set much higher and I think they could probably do a lot better.
(01-06-2022, 10:13 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Here is another Philly based article where Dallas get Tobias, Reed AND a 23 pick for THJ/Maxi
They're so close to reaching the same Simmons deal we are. So close.
Either way, Philly fans talking up THJ and Maxi as good fits with Embiid definitely gives me trade potential vibes. I do think Harris could be a good fit here both on and off the court. Tobi & Bobi reunited?
(01-06-2022, 10:50 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Reed is another big project, like we don't have enough of those. I would make the trade for THJ/Powell without the pick (or reed) in a heartbeat. I would do THJ/Bullock as well. If I had the choice of THJ/Bullock or overspending on Harris, I would go with the later. He makes so much more sense than THJ on this team. Maxi would be a lot harder for me to give up.
Harris might be a better fit than THJ, I just don't think it moves the needle much either. And I can't imagine MBT2.0 trades away freshly signed THJ in that scenario.
(01-06-2022, 10:52 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]They're so close to reaching the same Simmons deal we are. So close.
Either way, Philly fans talking up THJ and Maxi as good fits with Embiid definitely gives me trade potential vibes. I do think Harris could be a good fit here both on and off the court. Tobi & Bobi reunited?
Yep. I would much rather send out Powell or Bullock than Maxi, but Harris would be a good fit on this team.
I say that, but Tobias is a PF. You would obviously make this trade to start him. You can't start KP, Harris and a center. That wont work. So this trade would be predicated on them giving up that silliness (at least starting games) or you would need to trade away KP.
(01-06-2022, 10:57 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]And I can't imagine MBT2.0 trades away freshly signed THJ in that scenario.
Normally I'd agree with you. But in this specific case, the knowledge that Dallas was ready and willing to replace THJ with Lowry and only signed THJ once that fell through changes the calculus for me a little. I suspect Dallas would have no problem including him in the right deal. Now whether they'd do it for Harris -- your guess is as good as mine.
(01-06-2022, 10:57 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Harris might be a better fit than THJ, I just don't think it moves the needle much either. And I can't imagine MBT2.0 trades away freshly signed THJ in that scenario.
To me he would move the needle. He is a better defender than THJ, a better scorer, more versatile offensive player, much better distributor and rebounder. He is a better player and a better fit in a position of need, whereas dumping THJ makes more room for guys like Frank and Green.
I do share your skepticism that the FO is going to dump him a few months after he was their big signing (and supposedly a big part of team leadership).
I think trading THJ, Brunson, Porzingis, Bullock and Powell should all be on the "possibilities" board in Mavs HQ, and I bet they probably are. Not all of them...but any of them.
I really hope moving Kleber or DFS are not things being considered.