(02-11-2022, 07:14 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: [ -> ]So...
If we'd traded KP for two guys with expiring contracts, we'd have $5m of cap room to sign a free agent next season...
Would you rather have a $5m player next year, or Bertans and Dinwiddie?
I'd take Bertans/Dinwiddie. The cap room becomes more enticing when you think about Jokic becoming a free agent in 23-24. But if Luka can convince him to come to Dallas I think you can force it through by sign and trade anyway.
It's really annoying to see Boston got a great piece in Derrick White for Josh Richardson while we got a trade exception we'll never use and Moses who is no longer even on the team. Our FO is just horrific with asset management.
(02-11-2022, 08:14 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: [ -> ]It's really annoying to see Boston got a great piece in Derrick White for Josh Richardson while we got a trade exception we'll never use and Moses who is no longer even on the team. Our FO is just horrific with asset management.
BOS had to give up a 1st AND a 1st pick-swap. They paid a lot for White.
(02-11-2022, 08:17 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]BOS had to give up a 1st AND a 1st pick-swap. They paid a lot for White.
Oh ok thanks, I must have missed that they attached picks. So Richardson was just a salary then. Ok that makes me feel better.
(02-11-2022, 08:19 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: [ -> ]Oh ok thanks, I must have missed that they attached picks. So Richardson was just a salary then. Ok that makes me feel better.
They also gave SAS Romeo Langford as part of the deal.
(02-11-2022, 08:23 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]They also gave SAS Romeo Langford as part of the deal.
I guess I was just ready to call out the FO a bit. I'm glad to be done with KP but the reality of how terrible Bertans contract is is starting to set in and make me pretty irritated with Cuban.
(02-11-2022, 08:25 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: [ -> ]the reality of how terrible Bertans contract is is starting to set in and make me pretty irritated with Cuban.
Let's talk about this.
Here are list of players for comparison. It has their salaries starting with next year to the end of the current contract.
Bertans (just turned 29 years old, career 40.0% three point shooter)
$16M, $17M, $16M ($5M guaranteed, player option)
THJ (about to turn 30 years old, career 35.8% three point shooter)
$19.6M, $17.9M, $16.2M
Duncan Robinson (about to turn 28 years old, career 40.8% three point shooter)
$16.9M, $18.1M, $19.4M, $19.9M
Buddy Hield (just turned 29 years old, career 40.0% three point shooter)
$20.5M, $18.6M
(02-11-2022, 08:39 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Let's talk about this.
Here are list of players for comparison. It has their salaries starting with next year to the end of the current contract.
Bertans (just turned 29 years old, career 40.0% three point shooter)
$16M, $17M, $16M ($5M guaranteed, player option)
THJ (about to turn 30 years old, career 35.8% three point shooter)
$19.6M, $17.9M, $16.2M
Duncan Robinson (about to turn 28 years old, career 40.8% three point shooter)
$16.9M, $18.1M, $19.4M, $19.9M
Buddy Hield (just turned 29 years old, career 40.0% three point shooter)
$20.5M, $18.6M
Yeah, I guess the assumption is that he has fallen out of favor in Washington because he's sooooo bad defensively that he's almost unplayable. And, that these days he's not even a good shooter anymore.
If that's all true, the deal is plenty bad - worse than the others you highlight there, for sure. All those dudes are rotation players when healthy.
But, if you and @"DanSchwartzgan" are right, and the guy is capable of decent team defense and about to start splashing corner 3's again, I agree that the deal is not nearly the albatross it's being made out to be.
Regarding the shooting, many people around here got really mad at me once for comparing THJ to this guy as a shooter. I can't remember who it was, but somebody I respect told me he had an even quicker release, better relocation skills, etc. Basically, that he was in an entirely different class of shooting specialist.
It's a wait and see thing for me.
Bertans is really going to do what Kleber does... find a spot in the corner and shoot 3's. He's not going to do what THJ does. He's not going to play 30 mpg either. But he very likely will be useful.
All this talk about how bad his contract is doesn't really matter much in terms of the team play. Every player with a bad contract can be traded and every team has bad contracts.
Dinwiddie may be another matter. As a PG he will have to play quarterback, limit turnovers, and least score some. I cross my fingers on his play more than Bertans.
(02-11-2022, 09:00 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]Bertans is really going to do what Kleber does... find a spot in the corner and shoot 3's. He's not going to do what THJ does. He's not going to play 30 mpg either. But he very likely will be useful.
I think you are right, at least initially. I think the Mavs will try to get him integrated with simple spot ups in the corner. But I can easily see him doing what Bullock does at times once he is integrated.
(02-11-2022, 09:00 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]Bertans is really going to do what Kleber does... find a spot in the corner and shoot 3's. He's not going to do what THJ does.
I get what you mean by this, and you might be right.
However, when Bertans got that deal, he was doing WAY more than Kleber does, as you put it.
Kleber still, to this day, has a very slow release. It has gotten faster, but it's still a pretty labored, 1950's style set shot, pretty much. He is a wide open shooter
only.
Bertans used to the be the kind of guy you can run around to create shot opportunities, with several possible spots in mind in some actions. That's how he got that deal, and how all of the players @"Kammrath" listed got theirs, too. To get paid as
only a shooter, you have to do more than just hit percentage bench marks.
If you're right and he
only stands in the corner, but shoots as well as Kleber, percentage wise, the deal will still be pretty bad, but he'll be a useful player, as you say.
My guess is that the Mavs think (hope?) he can get back to being more of a flame thrower. I have no idea who's right, of course, and I haven't really watched him during this period when everyone has decided he's awful.
(02-11-2022, 08:39 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Let's talk about this.
Here are list of players for comparison. It has their salaries starting with next year to the end of the current contract.
Bertans (just turned 29 years old, career 40.0% three point shooter)
$16M, $17M, $16M ($5M guaranteed, player option)
THJ (about to turn 30 years old, career 35.8% three point shooter)
$19.6M, $17.9M, $16.2M
Duncan Robinson (about to turn 28 years old, career 40.8% three point shooter)
$16.9M, $18.1M, $19.4M, $19.9M
Buddy Hield (just turned 29 years old, career 40.0% three point shooter)
$20.5M, $18.6M
Now do Seth Curry. And then tell us who has the least skillset amongst those players.
(02-11-2022, 09:15 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Now do Seth Curry. And then tell us who has the least skillset amongst those players.
And then tell us, when Steph was MVP and played for 7Mio the next year.
(02-11-2022, 09:09 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]However, when Bertans got that deal, he was doing WAY more than Kleber does, as you put it.
You're right, but I wasn't actually trying to compare the player's skills as much as I was thinking about how Kidd (and even Carlisle) would likely use him at the outset in their respective systems.
I have no idea how Washington has been dictating their offense based on "floor-spacing" for the bigs, but we have been giving that a lot of discussion for years it seems like.
Two trades I could see happening next year:
THJ + 22 1st for Brogdon
Two guys who have a strong connection to the other team's coach: THJ had his best years under Carlisle, Brogdon won ROTY under Kidd. Indiana needs shooters, and Brogdon has struggled with injuries. But if he can stay healthy, he gives the Mavs another two-way player and playmaker on offense.
Maxi for Holmes
Holmes did not re-sign with SacTown to be a backup during his prime, but he's not a great fit next to Sabonis. Maxi can be both backup and second big for them. Mavs would get a starting center with rebounding, shot-blocking, and scoring ability.
(02-11-2022, 09:23 PM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]Two trades I could see happening next year:
THJ + 22 1st for Brogdon
Two guys who have a strong connection to the other team's coach: THJ had his best years under Carlisle, Brogdon won ROTY under Kidd. Indiana needs shooters, and Brogdon has struggled with injuries. But if he can stay healthy, he gives the Mavs another two-way player and playmaker on offense.
They have Buddy Love who has played well tonight. No need for THJ.
(02-11-2022, 09:22 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]You're right, but I wasn't actually trying to compare the player's skills as much as I was thinking about how Kidd (and even Carlisle) would likely use him at the outset in their respective systems.
I have no idea how Kidd/Korsokov will do it ("watch Kleber" is probably a good start, as you say). But, I feel pretty confident that Carlisle would've thought of ways to use his relocation skills in advantageous ways.
What makes you think differently, just his position?
(02-11-2022, 09:15 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Now do Seth Curry. And then tell us who has the least skillset amongst those players.
Don´t get me wrong. Seth is a great shooter. Probably would beat all of them in the 3-point contest. And he also has development a nice midrange/floater game.
But I don´t think he is as willing of a shooter as the mentioned names. For better or worse those guys will take 7-10 3s per game if they get starter minutes. They aren´t hesitating. When Seth played for the Mavs I wanted him to shoot more. Coaches mentioned the same. But it never happened.