(02-06-2022, 03:40 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]That is an interesting deal. We can watch tonight to see if players do more talking with their mouths covered than usual.
As you know, Collins is a Schwartz guy and I pointed out a few weeks ago that Gallinari’s guy is Michael Tellem, who recently switched to Excel. This leaves us still $10.5 under the tax which is similar to the TPE, which doesn’t have to be used for this deal. We’d be hurting for rim protection whether you start Powell next to Collins or start Collins as the lone big with DFS, Luka, RB and JB. That flexibility would be kind of fun if you had Powell off the bench and more of a shot blocker in the starting lineup.
This probably adds to summer flexibility as Gallinari could be flipped as a larger expiring deal. I think the deal is relatively balanced. I don’t know that KP is going to be any happier in ATL, but we know for sure that Collins isn’t happy. Maxi fits well at PF next to the centers they have. Brown probably fills a need as well. The biggest thing is the money difference between KP and Collins if I’m Atlanta.
Yeah, I'm skeptical ATL is going to want KP. Might need to get a third team involved to take on KP. I also sharing your concern that we would be sending out the two guys who make most sense next to Collins. No point in starting Powell next to Collins as neither protects the rim. Could we really run out that lineup with Collins as center and not get destroyed at the rim? Could Kidd make Collins a legit center?
(02-06-2022, 03:40 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]This probably adds to summer flexibility as Gallinari could be flipped as a larger expiring deal.
True. Come to think of it, if we can flip Gallo for Turner that would solve your shot blocker need. Let's say for the sake of argument that the deal is DFS and an expiring (Gallo) for Turner. JB/Luka/Bullock/Collins/Turner would be a pretty fun group, and financially we'd only have one UFA to worry about. Your bench could be Dragic/Green/Frank/Powell/Chriss and eventually THJ. Not bad.
Yeah, yeah... now I'm getting a few trade levels in. But it's deadline week. If not now, then when?
(02-06-2022, 04:07 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I'm skeptical ATL is going to want KP. Might need to get a third team involved to take on KP. I also sharing your concern that we would be sending out the two guys who make most sense next to Collins. No point in starting Powell next to Collins as neither protects the rim. Could we really run out that lineup with Collins as center and not get destroyed at the rim? Could Kidd make Collins a legit center?
Yeah, it isn’t ideal. As Tyler points out, there are things that can be done in other trades now or later.
I think the main thing here is you are getting a better top three from a fit, age, contract and health standpoint. In a perfect world where no one ever gets injured. KP is arguably the better player. But, in the real world, Collins is younger, cheaper and has a more diverse and efficient offensive skill set. It is probably easier to find that shot blocking center to put next to Collins.
Mavs receive: PJ Washington, Jonathan Isaac, Gary Harris.
Hornets: KP, 2nd rounder.
ORL: Bogi, Delon Wright, 2 future protected 1st rounders
ATL: Gordon Heyward
KP and his contract will continue to weigh the Mavs down. A guy I mentioned months ago in PJ Washington is the odd man out in Charlotte. He's a younger, better version of Kleber, IMO. Jonathan Isaac is another ideal swiss army knife on defense, I am willing to take the chance on him if he's available. Harris adds depth with THJ out.
ATL wanted Heyward badly when he was a FA. ORL takes salary dumps for future picks. CHA desperately needs a center, take a swing with KP.
The only reason I think that something major might go down is that we have a new front office for the first time in a very long time. They have no attachment to the current players and want to shape the roster to their ideas. There is no capspace for the foreseeable future (as the roster is currently constructed), so the only way to put their marker down, are trades.
(02-06-2022, 04:57 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]The only reason I think that something major might go down is that we have a new front office for the first time in a very long time. They have no attachment to the current players and want to shape the roster to their ideas. There is no capspace for the foreseeable future (as the roster is currently constructed), so the only way to put their marker down, are trades.
Until I see something that looks significantly different from what I have seen from this FO for the last 10 years (Nico's first offseason was textbook Mavs) I'm going to assume status quo. I get the argument that Nico did not have enough time to fully integrated in, but Cuban has always been more involved than he should and if the goal was to back off then why did he hire a guy with no FO experience? I'm not expecting any huge changes in method or process this TDL or next offseason, but I hope to be surprised.
I'd be pretty shocked if ATL has any interest in KP. We'd probably have to route him elsewhere. Capela is good and Okongwu is a very good prospect. If he was on our roster, we'd be hyping him up as future all star center and Luka running partner.
Mavs have been connected to Gallo in the past and obviously to Collins multiple times. Hard to make the money work without KP.
(02-06-2022, 05:15 PM)SatnamSingh Wrote: [ -> ]I'd be pretty shocked if ATL has any interest in KP. We'd probably have to route him elsewhere. Capela is good and Okongwu is a very good prospect. If he was on our roster, we'd be hyping him up as future all star center and Luka running partner.
Mavs have been connected to Gallo in the past and obviously to Collins multiple times. Hard to make the money work without KP.
Agree! Okongwu has a great future. Awesome prospect. So does Hunter so impressive the way he guards the perimeter and comes back in to guard the paint, just overall game is really nice. Collins I really think is a great player as well. I knew he was athletic, but he is way more than that, he can shot and play in the post as well. Those are the three players from Hawks, I would love if we could add to our team with an all around game. The rest of players from Hawks seem inconsistent and with clear and many weaknesses despite great in some few skills. Gallinari can play, if I would name a fourth it would be him.
(02-06-2022, 04:40 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, it isn’t ideal. As Tyler points out, there are things that can be done in other trades now or later.
I think the main thing here is you are getting a better top three from a fit, age, contract and health standpoint. In a perfect world where no one ever gets injured. KP is arguably the better player. But, in the real world, Collins is younger, cheaper and has a more diverse and efficient offensive skill set. It is probably easier to find that shot blocking center to put next to Collins.
I think the Mavs would rather put Collins and KP together, not trade KP for him.
(02-06-2022, 09:41 PM)Dirknows Wrote: [ -> ]I think the Mavs would rather put Collins and KP together, not trade KP for him.
Still not buying the KP is a fit for this team. Force feeding him the ball makes the offense predictable and when Luka has freedom to create and play free we are at our best.
I am not buying KP is untouchable, the dude needs his own team that will allow hm to be the lead alpha. One of those smaller market teams may want him since he is under contract while they rebuild.
The Mavs will not go anywhere with KP demanding shot opportunities.
(02-06-2022, 09:50 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]I am not buying KP is untouchable, the dude needs his own team that will allow hm to be the lead alpha.
I am pretty certain there is no team which would think KP is capable of being a number one. KP is not untouchable, his value is too low to bring back something better.
(02-06-2022, 10:08 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I am pretty certain there is no team which would think KP is capable of being a number one. KP is not untouchable, his value is too low to bring back something better.
I disagree, a team like Detroit or a team like Orlando would love to have him. KP can produce if given the opportunity, the problem is his requirements to produce diminishes our offensive capability given we have a ball wizard in Luka. Luka needs screen setters and scorers who can take advantage of his playmaking.
Throwing the ball into a big while Luka stands and watches is not us at our best in my opinion.
There are teams out that that can use KP and would like the idea of trading for a 7 footer that average 20 and 9 and a few blocks a game. That is a building block.
Let me also add a team like Charlotte who may want him simply because he fits with their scheme and their need for taller players. You could play KP next to Plumlee and not lose a beat.
(02-06-2022, 09:50 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]Still not buying the KP is a fit for this team. Force feeding him the ball makes the offense predictable and when Luka has freedom to create and play free we are at our best.
I am not buying KP is untouchable, the dude needs his own team that will allow hm to be the lead alpha. One of those smaller market teams may want him since he is under contract while they rebuild.
The Mavs will not go anywhere with KP demanding shot opportunities.
KP and Luka look way better together when KP’s three ball is falling, it hasn’t been this year, but it won’t be in the upper 20’s percentage wise forever as I expect it will eventually move up closer to the 35% he’s been at for his career. He has also been a great rim protector, which Collins is not. I think him and Collins would make a very good front court.
I would be happy with whatever they can get back for KP. The biggest question mark is his durability and I'm sure that is a big factor in other team's deciding to pursue him in a trade. He hasn't played 70 games in a season since his rookie year in the league.
Can he stay healthy is the first question. And then the second question is if he is worth bringing to your team to manage minutes and give him load management. There are some players in the league who you know will be worth resting every few games to ensure that they will be fresh and healthy for the playoffs. With KP, you can try to manage his minutes all year long but even if you tried unleashing him in the playoffs, his body could easily break down with heavy usage anyway.
And that's just his health/durability and not factoring in his game and all of the potential weaknesses he has.
(02-06-2022, 10:33 PM)Dirknows Wrote: [ -> ]KP and Luka look way better together when KP’s three ball is falling, it hasn’t been this year, but it won’t be in the upper 20’s percentage wise forever as I expect it will eventually move up closer to the 35% he’s been at for his career. He has also been a great rim protector, which Collins is not. I think him and Collins would make a very good front court.
So his shot is not falling and he has already missed 20 games, again you must be grading on the curve.
I give the Luka KP pairing an F grade at this point. Other than the few games in the bubble, it has not worked. The sooner we as Mavs fans can accept the obvious the better.
We cannot let our blue Kool Aid impair our judgement here. KP has been a disappointment so far. He has flashed hints of potential but that is it. He has not been what we intended for him to be.
(02-06-2022, 10:43 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: [ -> ]I would be happy with whatever they can get back for KP. The biggest question mark is his durability and I'm sure that is a big factor in other team's deciding to pursue him in a trade. He hasn't played 70 games in a season since his rookie year in the league.
Can he stay healthy is the first question. And then the second question is if he is worth bringing to your team to manage minutes and give him load management. There are some players in the league who you know will be worth resting every few games to ensure that they will be fresh and healthy for the playoffs. With KP, you can try to manage his minutes all year long but even if you tried unleashing him in the playoffs, his body could easily break down with heavy usage anyway.
And that's just his health/durability and not factoring in his game and all of the potential weaknesses he has.
Exactly, we keep letting his few games of potential change our opinion but KP is who he is. He is injury prone and when he comes back, we will have to wait another 10 games for him to find his rhythm and by that time the season will be over. Rinse and repeat the same thing next year.
As my uncle says, same shit different toilet with KP. Nothing is going to change until we get serious about giving Luka a legit second option.
You can’t trade shitty KP for nonshit. Best option is to try and squeeze the shit outta him here.
KP was on the bench last night. Maybe the previous game he was rehabbing. Who knows. I am not expecting much at the trade deadline. Just another creator via buyout or small trade. Burke has been fine but I think we can upgrade there.
I can't imagine there is much interest in KP out there right now. We will just need to cross our fingers and hope things settle there in the next year or two. It is just so odd that he leaves a game where you don't see him getting injured then he misses 4-5 games with minimal information given. Then he comes back and plays pretty good and is moving well. Just weird.
(02-07-2022, 08:57 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ] Just another creator via buyout or small trade. Burke has been fine but I think we can upgrade there.
THJ + Moses + Burke for Olynyk + Josh Jackson + Cory Joseph
Not really a small trade, but..
Detroit wouldn't really have a need for THJ to play this season, they can wait. And that they can build up his value and have him traded again for much better players.
Moses, well, I guess they can give him minutes.
Burke is cheaper than Joseph.
For the Mavs, Olynyk is going to relieve Maxi and perhaps be the C for the Mavs should the Mavs find a trade for KP in the off season.
Joseph is another ball handler, and much more of a PG than Burke, and he shoots over 40 percent from 3.
Josh Jackson is a small expiring contract.
(02-07-2022, 09:16 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]THJ + Moses + Burke for Olynyk + Josh Jackson + Cory Joseph
Not really a small trade, but..
Detroit wouldn't really have a need for THJ to play this season, they can wait. And that they can build up his value and have him traded again for much better players.
Moses, well, I guess they can give him minutes.
Burke is cheaper than Joseph.
For the Mavs, Olynyk is going to relieve Maxi and perhaps be the C for the Mavs should the Mavs find a trade for KP in the off season.
Joseph is another ball handler, and much more of a PG than Burke, and he shoots over 40 percent from 3.
Josh Jackson is a small expiring contract.
Interesting...thanks.
Personally, even though I would be surprised if Hardaway is here in a year and a half, I would be reluctant to move him just to get off his salary. He is one of the leadership guys that Kidd designated at the beginning of the season. My hope is he recovers, we can get his play up, and eventually move him for something of semi value.
I understand it is tough as we have a log jam at his spot and we will likely be a tax team next year. My answer to Cuban is tough. Pay the tax and don't give away players just to reduce tax.
I think a bought out Goran is still my favorite direction. Although even that clouds the minutes jam as well.