(03-25-2022, 03:23 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/KnicksVerse/status/1...9012644866
If you listen to the podcast, Detroit is actually the first team Fischer mentions. He doesn’t have any sourcing on it. He’s just speculating that the fit works and he could see Detroit having interest in Brunson’s leadership in the locker room. He acknowledges that Detroit could go after other players (Ayton) and much depends on how much salary they take back in any trade for Grant. So, nothing more than we already know. Detroit has a high pick. Many teams are calling on Grant and a deal is likely. Brunson would fit with Detroit and they will have cap space.
Fischer says all Knick veterans are on the table. They were available at the TDL, and he suspect they will be on the table in the summer. He expects Brunson to be a target. He thinks part of what NY was trying to do at the TDL was to create cap space for Brunson. Stein says if the Knicks had the space, Dallas would be seriously freaked out right now. Fischer thinks NY will try to create cap space this summer.
As I’ve written before, I don’t think it will be difficult for NY to create $18-$21mm in cap space in the summer. They have excess picks. They have four contracts that will be expired a year from this summer (or better, three are TO’s next summer). They have some decent youngsters. AND, NY has the leverage of Detroit’s cap space. I think they can make Dallas blink. What I mean by that is if Brunson won’t sign immediately, Dallas can 1. Wait it out daring NY to create the cap room. Or, 2. Negotiate with NY taking back a package similar to what they are sending out to create the cap room. BYC comes into play, but as I’ve indicated in past writing, it isn’t hard to get the numbers right…especially if we have the TPE to fit in some of the returning talent.
One last topic while I’m at it. We hear a lot about “getting a seat at the table”. The table is free agency where the player has control over his destination. But who is out there that we’d be in a conversation for….Irving? Ayton? LaVine? Bridges? Two of those guys are restricted…LaVine seems the most reasonable, but not on a team that retains Brunson. Or, is the seat at the table understood to mean strictly at some later date?
(03-25-2022, 06:20 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]They were available at the TDL, and he suspect they will be on the table in the summer. He expects Brunson to be a target. He thinks part of what NY was trying to do at the TDL was to create cap space for Brunson.
When I first read this quote, my initial reaction was not "NY can definitely create space for Brunson this summer" but "NY already tried to create space for Brunson and failed."
With no way to compete with the Mavs' Bird rights and less cap flexibility than the Pistons, NY's trade leverage almost wholly depends on the assumption that Brunson would rather play with them than with Dallas or Detroit. I think that's a highly questionable assumption.
(03-25-2022, 08:00 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]When I first read this quote, my initial reaction was not "NY can definitely create space for Brunson this summer" but "NY already tried to create space for Brunson and failed."
With no way to compete with the Mavs' Bird rights and less cap flexibility than the Pistons, NY's trade leverage almost wholly depends on the assumption that Brunson would rather play with them than with Dallas or Detroit. I think that's a highly questionable assumption.
You could look at it that way or see it as their desperation will just intensify and the sense of urgency will increase. To me that means there’s gonna be a pretty sweet deal or 2 to be had by some team this summer. May or may not be with the Mavs.
How ironic would it be if they used our pick to clear enough space to sign JB outright and he goes there without any compensation back?
(03-25-2022, 08:21 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]How ironic would it be if they used our pick to clear enough space to sign JB outright and he goes there without any compensation back?
If by "ironic" you mean "would suck" then yes, very ironic.
(03-25-2022, 08:21 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]You could look at it that way or see it as their desperation will just intensify and the sense of urgency will increase. To me that means there’s gonna be a pretty sweet deal or 2 to be had by some team this summer. May or may not be with the Mavs.
How ironic would it be if they used our pick to clear enough space to sign JB outright and he goes there without any compensation back?
As it are the Knicks, it's more likely, they waste our pick to clear room and Brunson only uses them to get a higher payday. Be it here or at Detroit.
(03-26-2022, 03:12 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]As it are the Knicks, it's more likely, they waste our pick to clear room and Brunson only uses them to get a higher payday. Be it here or at Detroit.
He would certainly get all the playing time he could ever want under Thibs.
(03-25-2022, 06:20 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]If you listen to the podcast, Detroit is actually the first team Fischer mentions. He doesn’t have any sourcing on it. He’s just speculating that the fit works and he could see Detroit having interest in Brunson’s leadership in the locker room. He acknowledges that Detroit could go after other players (Ayton) and much depends on how much salary they take back in any trade for Grant. So, nothing more than we already know. Detroit has a high pick. Many teams are calling on Grant and a deal is likely. Brunson would fit with Detroit and they will have cap space.
Fischer says all Knick veterans are on the table. They were available at the TDL, and he suspect they will be on the table in the summer. He expects Brunson to be a target. He thinks part of what NY was trying to do at the TDL was to create cap space for Brunson. Stein says if the Knicks had the space, Dallas would be seriously freaked out right now. Fischer thinks NY will try to create cap space this summer.
As I’ve written before, I don’t think it will be difficult for NY to create $18-$21mm in cap space in the summer. They have excess picks. They have four contracts that will be expired a year from this summer (or better, three are TO’s next summer). They have some decent youngsters. AND, NY has the leverage of Detroit’s cap space. I think they can make Dallas blink. What I mean by that is if Brunson won’t sign immediately, Dallas can 1. Wait it out daring NY to create the cap room. Or, 2. Negotiate with NY taking back a package similar to what they are sending out to create the cap room. BYC comes into play, but as I’ve indicated in past writing, it isn’t hard to get the numbers right…especially if we have the TPE to fit in some of the returning talent.
One last topic while I’m at it. We hear a lot about “getting a seat at the table”. The table is free agency where the player has control over his destination. But who is out there that we’d be in a conversation for….Irving? Ayton? LaVine? Bridges? Two of those guys are restricted…LaVine seems the most reasonable, but not on a team that retains Brunson. Or, is the seat at the table understood to mean strictly at some later date?
NYK: Brunson and Maxi (plus minor OKC players)
DAL: Randle and mavs FRP
OKC: Bertans and Reddish
Not sure if this is legal but if we are to lose Brunson we need to take the opportunity to make a big move out of it like this. The boxes i would want to see checked are: 1) get a good player at a need position (Randle/Grant) 2) shed excess salary(Bertans is top choice, THJ if we must) 3) get an asset (pick/player i.e. FRP/Killian Hayes) 4) keep our pick this summer if possible
Maybe we don’t get everything we want but we can’t let him walk for nothing under any circumstances
To your last point, a “seat at the table” could mean more than just FA. Almost all the biggest trades these days the player has a major say compared to before. Just like how we wouldn’t want Brunson to change teams without their being a trade. He has a major say and would even if he was an RFA or under contract. The seat at the table move might not be right now it could be in the future. I think Nico means having a seat more so than in years past. We will see
(03-26-2022, 11:41 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]NYK: Brunson and Maxi (plus minor OKC players)
DAL: Randle and mavs FRP
OKC: Bertans and Reddish
Not sure if this is legal but if we are to lose Brunson we need to take the opportunity to make a big move out of it like this. The boxes i would want to see checked are: 1) get a good player at a need position (Randle/Grant) 2) shed excess salary(Bertans is top choice, THJ if we must) 3) get an asset (pick/player i.e. FRP/Killian Hayes) 4) keep our pick this summer if possible
Maybe we don’t get everything we want but we can’t let him walk for nothing under any circumstances
To your last point, a “seat at the table” could mean more than just FA. Almost all the biggest trades these days the player has a major say compared to before. Just like how we wouldn’t want Brunson to change teams without their being a trade. He has a major say and would even if he was an RFA or under contract. The seat at the table move might not be right now it could be in the future. I think Nico means having a seat more so than in years past. We will see
OKC could just outright sign Reddish to a 24M/per year RFA in FA and still comes out ahead financially opposed to the trade you suggested.
Brunson+ Kleber + Burke + Brown for Randle + Kemba + our 2023 pick seems sufficient.
Given how the Knicks have devalued Randle and seem intent to move toward a Zion/Barrett/Reddish future, I´d say he´s pretty much neutral value, especially given the cheap-ish contract.
Kleber is still a positive asset for a contender (especially as an expiring deal).
Creating capspace for an outright big offer Brunson signing would cost the Knicks roughly a 1st round pick.
Add a little negative value on the two year Kemba deal, so they have to take Burke and Brown on expiring deals.
Seems a fair deal all around, IF we have to lose Brunson.
(03-26-2022, 12:37 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]OKC could just outright sign Reddish to a 24M/per year RFA in FA and still comes out ahead financially opposed to the trade you suggested.
Brunson+ Kleber + Burke + Brown for Randle + Kemba + our 2023 pick seems sufficient.
Given how the Knicks have devalued Randle and seem intent to move toward a Zion/Barrett/Reddish future, I´d say he´s pretty much neutral value, especially given the cheap-ish contract.
Kleber is still a positive asset for a contender (especially as an expiring deal).
Creating capspace for an outright big offer Brunson signing would cost the Knicks roughly a 1st round pick.
Add a little negative value on the two year Kemba deal, so they have to take Burke and Brown on expiring deals.
Seems a fair deal all around, IF we have to lose Brunson.
The problem if we sign and trade Brunson is we are forced to be under the apron next year. Any deal we do needs to send out more salary somehow. There’s no way to add a big contract without moving Dinwiddie, Bertans or THJ
(03-26-2022, 01:28 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]The problem if we sign and trade Brunson is we are forced to be under the apron next year.
This counts only if you SnT player in, not out. Mavs can SnT Brunson to any team without any limitations. They are very limited to SnT players to Mavs due the overall high salaries.
(03-26-2022, 01:56 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]This counts only if you SnT player in, not out. Mavs can SnT Brunson to any team without any limitations. They are very limited to SnT players to Mavs due the overall high salaries.
So it really just limits us in acquiring Robinson
Are there any extra limitations on combining Brunsons new salary with other players?
(03-26-2022, 11:41 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]To your last point, a “seat at the table” could mean more than just FA. Almost all the biggest trades these days the player has a major say compared to before. Just like how we wouldn’t want Brunson to change teams without their being a trade. He has a major say and would even if he was an RFA or under contract. The seat at the table move might not be right now it could be in the future. I think Nico means having a seat more so than in years past. We will see
So, like Jerami Grant. BTW, we now have African Americans at GM and Head Coach.
To answer your other question about limitations. Unless Brunson is Signed and Traded into cap space, a deal for him will be subject to BYC rules. Let’s say he gets a starting number of $20mm. He will count as $20mm as his incoming salary for a non-cap room team (like NY currently). But, he only counts as half of that as our outgoing for trade matching purposes. As an over the apron team, we don’t get a $5mm trade spread (we are stuck with 125% plus $100k...thank you FG) So, trade matching is a bit more tricky.
If, however, we are dealing with a cap room team (like Detroit), then BYC doesn’t apply. The rumor is Detroit wants a first round pick and Grant wants the extension he’s eligible for this summer. A deal where we send Brunson and a pick for Grant still gives Detroit the ability to use cap room to pursue other pieces with cap room this summer. It’s not like LA and Portland and the other reported suitors are pitching great players in addition to a pick for Grant. We don’t get to count Brunson as “compensation” or “return” for Grant as they could sign Brunson outright. The question is whether our first and what they could do with additional cap room is more valuable than what Detroit might get in terms of matching salaries from other teams that are pursuing Grant.
(03-26-2022, 04:26 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]If, however, we are dealing with a cap room team (like Detroit), then BYC doesn’t apply. The rumor is Detroit wants a first round pick and Grant wants the extension he’s eligible for this summer. A deal where we send Brunson and a pick for Grant still gives Detroit the ability to use cap room to pursue other pieces with cap room this summer. It’s not like LA and Portland and the other reported suitors are pitching great players in addition to a pick for Grant. We don’t get to count Brunson as “compensation” or “return” for Grant as they could sign Brunson outright. The question is whether our first and what they could do with additional cap room is more valuable than what Detroit might get in terms of matching salaries from other teams that are pursuing Grant.
I doubt one FRP from Mavs would do it. The rumor is Portland wants Grant and they have the Pels lottery pick from this year. Portland has also Bledsoe and his little guaranteed salary for trade purpose. They can also do the deal at the draft while Mavs would have to wait with Brunson till summer, when 2022 pick will have much lower value (as will the New Orleans one). Mavs would then likely be offering 2027 FRP.
I think when Grant is considered, Mavs would have to do it at draft day with 2022 and 2027, either something around THJ or expiring Powell/Kleber/Bullock.
(03-27-2022, 01:41 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I doubt one FRP from Mavs would do it. The rumor is Portland wants Grant and they have the Pels lottery pick from this year. Portland has also Bledsoe and his little guaranteed salary for trade purpose.
If they use Bledsoe to trade match Grant in June, then his $19.3 salary is fully guaranteed for the next season. The NO pick is certainly as good as anyone ‘might’ offer in terms of a single pick. Whether they ‘will’ offer it is a different matter. I have some doubts.
(03-26-2022, 04:26 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]So, like Jerami Grant. BTW, we now have African Americans at GM and Head Coach.
To answer your other question about limitations. Unless Brunson is Signed and Traded into cap space, a deal for him will be subject to BYC rules. Let’s say he gets a starting number of $20mm. He will count as $20mm as his incoming salary for a non-cap room team (like NY currently). But, he only counts as half of that as our outgoing for trade matching purposes. As an over the apron team, we don’t get a $5mm trade spread (we are stuck with 125% plus $100k...thank you FG) So, trade matching is a bit more tricky.
If, however, we are dealing with a cap room team (like Detroit), then BYC doesn’t apply. The rumor is Detroit wants a first round pick and Grant wants the extension he’s eligible for this summer. A deal where we send Brunson and a pick for Grant still gives Detroit the ability to use cap room to pursue other pieces with cap room this summer. It’s not like LA and Portland and the other reported suitors are pitching great players in addition to a pick for Grant. We don’t get to count Brunson as “compensation” or “return” for Grant as they could sign Brunson outright. The question is whether our first and what they could do with additional cap room is more valuable than what Detroit might get in terms of matching salaries from other teams that are pursuing Grant.
Thank you for the info
From a Detroit perspective i would want the SnT Brunson for Grant swap with the Mavs FRP included. Keep my cap space and sign a max offer sheet for Ayton. Build around JB, Cade and Ayton plus Bey and top 5 pick. Still would have trade ammo for a final move
From a Knicks perspective I think their top targets are Brunson and Donovan Mitchell. There’s strong ties between both of them and the Knicks front office. Trade for Brunson with minimal assets going out. Then unload picks, Barrett and players for Mitchell after the Jazz lose early
(03-27-2022, 07:19 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you for the info
From a Detroit perspective i would want the SnT Brunson for Grant swap with the Mavs FRP included. Keep my cap space and sign a max offer sheet for Ayton. Build around JB, Cade and Ayton plus Bey and top 5 pick. Still would have trade ammo for a final move
From a Knicks perspective I think their top targets are Brunson and Donovan Mitchell. There’s strong ties between both of them and the Knicks front office. Trade for Brunson with minimal assets going out. Then unload picks, Barrett and players for Mitchell after the Jazz lose early
Lol, why us everybody here dreaming of the perfect situation for other teams.
The NBA is a copycat league. There’s always been certain teams who succeed and how they did it becomes a template for how other teams build their own rosters. Let’s look at the Suns who are a clear front runner in a year more wide open than any in recent memory
Guards:
Booker (draft pick 13)
CP3 (trade, FRP cost)
Payne (late bloomer draft bust picked up for free)
Wings:
Bridges (draft pick 10)
Crowder (FA MLE)
Johnson (draft pick 11)
Big:
Ayton (draft pick 1)
Guard depth:
Shamet (salary dump acquired for free)
Holiday (acquired free for cash considerations)
Wing depth:
Craig (trade, cost of a 2nd rd pick)
Big depth:
McGee (cheap FA deal)
Biyambo (10 day contract)
Compare this to what we currently have:
Guards:
Luka (draft pick 3)
Brunson (draft pick 33)
Dinwiddie (trade, cost of salary dump)
Wings:
DFS (undrafted FA)
Bullock (FA MLE)
Green (draft pick 18)
Big:
Powell (trade matching piece, acquired free)
Maxi (undrafted FA)
Guard depth:
Frank (free off waivers)
Wing depth:
None
Big depth:
None
THJ would bump Green down to wing depth. I don’t see any of the players not listed making a postseason impact.
One takeaway from the Suns is they added much of their depth for cheap or free. The glaring advantage the Suns have is Ayton. I see CP3 as something we don’t have either: a veteran leader. One advantage for the Mavs though is we have much bigger guards. I feel like this will be our big advantage over most teams once we complete our roster.
(03-27-2022, 08:23 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Lol, why us everybody here dreaming of the perfect situation for other teams.
Other teams have better ability for perfect scenarios. It’s the reality of the place our illustrious FO has put us.