(02-14-2022, 06:20 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]. . . So would you rather have:
-Dragic + Boucher + FRP. Both expiring.
-Dinwiddie + Bertans while giving up a SRP. SD coming off an ACL injury and DB on a long unfavorable contract. Both seemingly not fitting in with WAS.
The choice to me seems obvious which is why I doubt the validity.
The choice is obvious, and I’m with you. No way Toronto wanted to give us a pick to exchange KP for expiring.
(02-14-2022, 06:17 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]One point I want to make. Holmes is not in the same category of Collins or Simmons. I did not have serious thoughts on those guys. But Holmes is a distressed asset right now. He is having a down year, and just got pushed to backup center. He is clearly unhappy. A 12 mil unhappy backup center is not an asset. We would basically have dumped KP for two mildly negative assets. It was practically a salary dump. That didn't seem like too much to ask for. Apparently it was (or this FO is terrible, I'm still struggling with which is the right answer).
I see him as an offseason target. With the way Maxi's deal is structured it could anchor that trade easily. I'd love to have him.
(02-14-2022, 06:12 PM)jdb152 Wrote: [ -> ]That's reasonable. I just don't see either of the pieces we acquired as having to overcome the same level of negative equity/persistent concerns as KP. We're talking about a player that's missed 40% of his career games and had almost 70 million coming to him over the next two years.
I don't see Green as viable for this season's playoffs but would love to be proven wrong. I don't doubt JB but we need to see this performance level in the playoffs before we can't begin to bank on it.
Dragic may or may not be necessary. Certainly with JB's growth and the Dinwiddie acquisition our desperate need for ball handlers isn't there anymore. Still, to close a season and make a playoff run in a year where the West isn't quite as murderous as usual, I'd feel better having him and being wrong than needing him and being right.
I think you're spot on with that evaluation, most likely.
I also don’t see Green in the playoff rotation. He’s more of a situational sub. As for Dragic, he would be purely Dinwiddie insurance for this year in the event of an injury. I don’t want Dragic taking Greens regular season minutes and Dragic also has no spot in the playoff rotation.
PG: Luka 36 / SD 12
SG: JB 32 / SD 12 / Green 4
SF: RB 34 / Green 10 / DFS 4
PF: DFS 30 / Bertans 18
C: DP 22 / Kleber 22 / Bertans 4
Luka 36 mpg
Brunson 32 mpg
RB 34 mpg
DFS 34 mpg
SD 24 mpg
DP 22 mpg
Maxi 22 mpg
Bertans 22 mpg
Green 14 mpg
Playoffs:
PG: Luka 42 / SD 6
SG: JB 34 / SD 14
SF: RB 40 / DFS 8
PF: DFS 32 / Bertans 16
C: DP 22 / Kleber 26
Luka 42 mpg
Brunson 34 mpg
RB 40 mpg
DFS 40 mpg
SD 20 mpg
DP 22 mpg
Maxi 26 mpg
Bertans 16 mpg
I am genuinely excited to see the summer playout. I think Nico had a ton of conversations that will serve him well as he gets a shot at his first, rea summer season. Last summer was too tumultuous and the timeline to truncated for him to really make an impact.
(02-14-2022, 06:29 PM)jdb152 Wrote: [ -> ]I am genuinely excited to see the summer playout. I think Nico had a ton of conversations that will serve him well as he gets a shot at his first, rea summer season. Last summer was too tumultuous and the timeline to truncated for him to really make an impact.
The summer is a win if we don't squander our FRP to dump a contract and resign Jalen.
(02-14-2022, 06:31 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]The summer is a win if we don't squander our FRP to dump a contract and resign Jalen.
Totally agree, and Cuban basically stating overtly that he's about to be paying some tax is one of the reasons I'm not as depressed now as I could be. I think he realizes the quickest way out of this mess they've made is to spend their way out.
(02-14-2022, 06:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Totally agree, and Cuban basically stating overtly that he's about to be paying some tax is one of the reasons I'm not as depressed now as I could be. I think he realizes the quickest way out of this mess they've made is to spend their way out.
I'm confident we keep JB. I'm not confident at all we are keeping our pick. We really need to do both as well as nail the pick. We need to replace JB's trajectory on a rookie contract.
(02-14-2022, 06:20 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]It's all assumptions on the Toronto side. Rumors leaked it was KP + Pick (let's throw in Boucher for salary matching purposes) and that Dallas wanted "a lot more" and also Toronto "pulled out of the trade". Both Dragic and Boucher are expiring contracts. I'm assuming you could resign one or both and continue to operate over the cap. We also heard that draft compensation from Toronto was a first round pick. That's where I get skeptical unless it was highly, highly protected. Toronto owns all their future firsts and no others. And the reason I'm skeptical is it's also been reported that the Wizards deal was the only one on the table. So would you rather have:
-Dragic + Boucher + FRP. Both expiring.
-Dinwiddie + Bertans while giving up a SRP. SD coming off an ACL injury and DB on a long unfavorable contract. Both seemingly not fitting in with WAS.
The choice to me seems obvious which is why I doubt the validity.
To you and me maybe, but this FO has not done much since the Luka draft to garner much trust. Hell I would have done that deal without the first and thrown in the second we gave Wiz.
(02-14-2022, 07:15 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Hell I would have done that deal without the first and thrown in the second we gave Wiz.
As would I but it's all speculation.
(02-14-2022, 06:52 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I'm confident we keep JB. I'm not confident at all we are keeping our pick. We really need to do both as well as nail the pick. We need to replace JB's trajectory on a rookie contract.
I wish I shared your confidence. I don't like the signal and potential ramifications of Dinwiddie. I feel like he may take the ball out of Brunson's hands, which will make him less effective and prolly less interested in staying here. We shall see.
(02-14-2022, 06:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Totally agree, and Cuban basically stating overtly that he's about to be paying some tax is one of the reasons I'm not as depressed now as I could be. I think he realizes the quickest way out of this mess they've made is to spend their way out.
Too bad its so much harder to spend your way of your mistakes. That how the championship team was eventually built. Cuban does not have nearly the options he used to. I'm also skeptical he will actually go into the tax. If this team sinks to 6th or even play-in seed and loses first round playoff badly, is he really going to spend the 18-20 mil NY offers with the tax implications of that when he knows this team has no chance to do anything anytime soon? Unfortunately, we will probably find out.
(02-14-2022, 05:54 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Jason Garret Jr. > both
So assuming you do the Dragic deal and Dragic, Brunson, and Bouche walk then what:
You essentially lost KP for nothing right?
Who do you sign with that cap space?
The Wizards deal was the best deal, they bought a replacement for Hardaway and a possible replacement for Maxi while adding insurance for Brunson.
If you consider the flexibility they have now the Wizards deal was the best deal and they still have the ability to add more pieces.
I would venture to say that Bertans if his shooting comes back and Dinwiddie are upgrades over Maxi and THJ which makes them expendable.
SMH
(02-14-2022, 09:50 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]So assuming you do the Dragic deal and both Dragic and Bouche walk then what:
You essentially lost KP for nothing right?
Who do you sign with that cap space?
The Wizards deal was the best deal, they bought a replacement for Hardaway and a possible replacement for Maxi.
If you consider the flexibility they have now the Wizards deal was the best deal and they have still have the ability to add more pieces.
I would venture to say that Bertans if his shooting comes back and Dinwiddie are upgrades over Maxi and THJ which makes them expendable.
SMH
SMH They SMH can SMH resign SMH resign SMH Dragic SMH and SMH Boucher SMH and SMH maintain SMH the SMH same SMH "flexibility" SMH
(02-14-2022, 09:54 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]SMH They SMH can SMH resign SMH resign SMH Dragic SMH and SMH Boucher SMH and SMH maintain SMH the SMH same SMH "flexibility" SMH
Your point makes no sense, you are complaining about the return for KP but then turning around supporting a deal that would have netted us 2 expiring contracts.
What do you suppose we do with that cap space?
What if Brunson leaves?
Your point that the Toronto deal was the better deal makes no sense. I am just challenging your opinion on it because it makes no sense for roster building.
They turned KP into assets that can be tradeable or long term pieces while also giving themselves insurance going into the offseason.
(02-14-2022, 09:57 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]Your point makes no sense, you are complaining about the return for KP but then turning around supporting a deal that would have netted us 2 expiring contracts.
What do you suppose we do with that cap space?
What if Brunson leaves?
Your point that the Toronto deal was the better deal makes no sense. I am just challenging your opinion on it because it makes no sense for roster building.
They turned KP into assets that can be tradeable or long term pieces while also giving themselves insurance going into the offseason.
In order:
-Who's complaining? Discussions aren't complaining.
-I wasn't aware expiring contracts couldn't be signed to new deals.
-I don't see either trade having much of an impact on Brunson staying or going. All reports say that he's happy to be in Dallas and Mark Cuban is confident he'll resign and he's fine paying the tax. Maybe Mark's willing to spend more if he let's one of the Toronto contract expires, which wouldn't be an option with the Washington contracts. Because, you know, there is more than one type of flexibility.
-You are welcome to disagree with me on the better deal and you'd be the expert on not making sense.
-They turned KP's bad contract into two smaller, bad contracts. Much like before, you are welcome to prefer one set of players of the others.
-I don't think the Toronto deal was there in the first place. Thus the filled in blanks which could be way off base.
I really hope Dinwiddie and Bertans show out against Miami. If they put up stinkers we're going to get 964 posts about how the Mavs shoulda chosen a Toronto offer that never was really there. Tuesday can't come soon enough.
(02-14-2022, 10:19 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I really hope Dinwiddie and Bertans show out against Miami. If they put up stinkers we're going to get 964 posts about how the Mavs shoulda chosen a Toronto offer that never was really there. Tuesday can't come soon enough.
That cuts both ways. haha
I still remember posts comparing +/- of Maxi and WCS from one half of play.
(02-14-2022, 12:43 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]@"Not an evil robot"
Here is a direct quote from Voulgaris on the 2020 draft (in a radio interview on October 21, 2021)....
Donnie 100% bailed on the draft and "went up to his room, office, because his office was separate from everything." Donnie was SUPPOSED to run the draft. He had been given the authority by Mark. But he pouted about Voulgaris being involved as a voice at all and just walked away. This left Voulgaris to run the draft. He stepped into a leadership void left by Donnie. As opposed to leading in a difficult situation with someone that you don't like or is hard to work with, Donnie left. Donnie failed as a leader.
Again, Cuban certainly had his part to play, but Cuban did not run the 2020 draft! Voulgaris did because Donnie walked away of his own choice.
Organization dynamics can be very complicated and fluid, but this was the nail in the coffin for my general and current understanding of how things were in recent years.
If Cuban was the "GM" in truth, he would have been running the draft. But Donnie was clearly supposed to be doing that and then Voulgaris did (NOT Cuban).
I’m way behind the thread at this point, but I don’t think that makes the point you think it does. Not a good look for Nelson at all if true, then Voulgaris (whose nominal responsibilities have nothing to do with drafting) makes the pick without consulting the scouts according to one of The Athletic articles in the summer. You think there’s not some sort of contingency within Nelson’s org to cover if he is unable to make the pick (or throws a temper tantrum, I guess)? Instead a short time analytics contractor in a different department makes the call unassisted without immediately getting fired in the aftermath. That’s exactly the messy structure that is Cuban’s fault.
I don’t care who is GM (because responsibilities vary across the league). It feels like it’s been Cuban when he cares, then whomever fills the power void when he doesn’t. But regardless, good management starts from the top so why shouldn’t we hold Cuban most accountable?
(02-14-2022, 10:23 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]That cuts both ways. haha
I still remember posts comparing +/- of Maxi and WCS from one half of play.
You have a point.
I suppose a better way to word is it is " I sure hope Dinwiddie and Bertans show a performance that will be indicative of future performances so that our discussions on said players will allow us to make judgments very quickly (and be as accurate as possible). This is because it is impossible to be wrong on the internet. WE MUST BE CORRECT."
(02-14-2022, 10:26 PM)Not an evil robot Wrote: [ -> ]good management starts from the top so why shouldn’t we hold Cuban most accountable?
I have been saying Cuban IS to blame. My posts are crystal clear on that.
I simply do not think Cuban was the GM (and doing all the things that GMs do).
That's all my point is. I have never said at any point that Cuban doesn't bear responsibility. It all happened under him, that is inexcusable.