Banchero now leading the betting odds to go #1. Is Houston trading up from #1 to #3? If so i wonder if it’s possible that this gets looped into the C Wood trade. THJ and Green for Jonathon Isaac? (Yes I would still gamble on his talent)
(06-23-2022, 06:45 AM)Okstate819 Wrote: [ -> ]Banchero now leading the betting odds to go #1. Is Houston trading up from #1 to #3? If so i wonder if it’s possible that this gets looped into the C Wood trade. THJ and Green for Jonathon Isaac? (Yes I would still gamble on his talent)
I don't see Orlando putting Isaac in a package like that now. They are close to getting to see him for the first time in forever. If he's healthy, the potential return (if they want to trade him later) is dramatically better. If he can't get healthy, the financial risk drops dramatically after this season.
If you go back to the Fultz/Tatum deal, also #3 for #1, Philly gave up a pick that turned out to be mid first in a subsequent draft. Houston has 17 in the current draft plus 26. It doesn't have to be much more complicated than that for Houston to move up. As I mentioned yesterday, adding Green for an Orlando 2nd to such a deal wouldn't be difficult at all if it is part of the larger Wood package. Orlando would be a good place for Josh to get PT and the coach at least knows him enough to know about his athleticism and work ethic. Green is CAA and the leverage they currently have with the Brunson negotiations could be a factor as well in Dallas moving Josh as well.
(06-23-2022, 07:36 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see Orlando putting Isaac in a package like that now. They are close to getting to see him for the first time in forever. If he's healthy, the potential return (if they want to trade him later) is dramatically better. If he can't get healthy, the financial risk drops dramatically after this season.
If you go back to the Fultz/Tatum deal, also #3 for #1, Philly gave up a pick that turned out to be mid first in a subsequent draft. Houston has 17 in the current draft plus 26. It doesn't have to be much more complicated than that for Houston to move up. As I mentioned yesterday, adding Green for an Orlando 2nd to such a deal wouldn't be difficult at all if it is part of the larger Wood package. Orlando would be a good place for Josh to get PT and the coach at least knows him enough to know about his athleticism and work ethic. Green is CAA and the leverage they currently have with the Brunson negotiations could be a factor as well in Dallas moving Josh as well.
Yea I like the Green to Orl angle and it makes alot sense. We arent picking up Green's option at 4.7mil next year if we bring in another vet wing and hes DNPCD all season. Could take a nice flier on someone at #35 and give him the Ty Terry deal of 4yr 6 million which becomes extremely valuable if it hits but not a big deal to waive if it doesn't.
(06-23-2022, 08:14 AM)Okstate819 Wrote: [ -> ]Yea I like the Green to Orl angle and it makes alot sense. We arent picking up Green's option at 4.7mil next year if we bring in another vet wing and hes DNPCD all season. Could take a nice flier on someone at #35 and give him the Ty Terry deal of 4yr 6 million which becomes extremely valuable if it hits but not a big deal to waive if it doesn't.
I feel sending Green out for the 35 pick would be selling low on Green. I have more confidence that Green can be a useful rotation player than whoever we might get at 35. I also think Green will likely be farther along on the development curve than that pick meaning if we are having a hard time finding Green minutes it will be even harder for a rookie. Also, if we are to give 35 the Terry deal (or any deal more than 2 years so we can have bird rights and make them restricted) we would have to eat significantly into the tax MLE. That will make it less likely we get a vet wing that would eat all of the minutes. I don't mind sending Green out if it nets us a good player, but this kind of trade only makes sense if the Mavs have given up on Green.
(06-23-2022, 08:44 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I feel sending Green out for the 35 pick would be selling low on Green. I have more confidence that Green can be a useful rotation player than whoever we might get at 35. I also think Green will likely be farther along on the development curve than that pick meaning if we are having a hard time finding Green minutes it will be even harder for a rookie. Also, if we are to give 35 the Terry deal (or any deal more than 2 years so we can have bird rights and make them restricted) we would have to eat significantly into the tax MLE. That will make it less likely we get a vet wing that would eat all of the minutes. I don't mind sending Green out if it nets us a good player, but this kind of trade only makes sense if the Mavs have given up on Green.
Cant it be a 4 year minimum deal? I thought that was the idea here. Meaning it doesn't impact the tax MLE.
I don't know if its about giving up on Green but rather the realization that he's not ready to meaningfully contribute to a playoff team and paying him 4.7 million in 2024 is significant given the tax. Were likely not to pick up that team option imo, so i believe it makes sense to flip him for a cheaper asset now.
Its also possible Green (and more likely his agent) would like to see him flipped to a team where he may get more PT and a chance at getting a 2nd deal.
(06-23-2022, 08:44 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I feel sending Green out for the 35 pick would be selling low on Green. I have more confidence that Green can be a useful rotation player than whoever we might get at 35.
I agree with this, but...I also agree with @"Okstate819" that it's pretty unlikely the Mavericks want to pay Green $4.7 million next year.
(06-23-2022, 08:52 AM)Okstate819 Wrote: [ -> ]Cant it be a 4 year minimum deal? I thought that was the idea here. Meaning it doesn't impact the tax MLE.
I don't know if its about giving up on Green but rather the realization that he's not ready to meaningfully contribute to a playoff team and paying him 4.7 million in 2024 is significant given the tax. Were likely not to pick up that team option imo, so i believe it makes sense to flip him for a cheaper asset now.
Its also possible Green (and more likely his agent) would like to see him flipped to a team where he may get more PT and a chance at getting a 2nd deal.
Unfortunately the most you can give a second rounder without impacting cap space is 2 years. After that you have to dig into cap space or an exception. When we did the Terry deal, we split the MLE up for multiple players including Terrys contract (I think every one of those players was a bust). This is part of the reason I am not that excited about moving into the second round.
I feel like if Josh takes another step this year that 4.7 could be a bargain, but I agree he is on the clock. This is why its silly to me that NBA teams draft more on potential than floor, especially out of the lottery. A lot of times you don't really know what you have before you have to make difficult financial decisions.
Brunson should be looking to maximize this contract. He hasn't made a ton of money yet since he's played out a 2nd round contract after spending 3 years in college. This is his first shot at a payday and god forbid, it could be his last. This is his shot at generational wealth. I wouldn't take a hometown discount either but that doesn't mean the Mavs shouldn't be in the drivers seat as Texas offers some tax protections that most other states can't compete with. Jalen is smart, he'll make the right decision.
(06-23-2022, 12:30 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Brunson should be looking to maximize this contract. He hasn't made a ton of money yet since he's played out a 2nd round contract after spending 3 years in college. This is his first shot at a payday and god forbid, it could be his last. This is his shot at generational wealth. I wouldn't take a hometown discount either but that doesn't mean the Mavs shouldn't be in the drivers seat as Texas offers some tax protections that most other states can't compete with. Jalen is smart, he'll make the right decision.
I don’t think the lack of state income tax has ever actually been a factor in anyones decision to come or not to Dallas, whether it’s the Mavs, Rangers, Cowboys or Stars.
(06-23-2022, 12:54 PM)Dirknows Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t think the lack of state income tax has ever actually been a factor in anyones decision to come or not to Dallas, whether it’s the Mavs, Rangers, Cowboys or Stars.
Disagree. If the contracts are equal, it's big advantage to State's with no income tax. It's not the only factor certainly.
Any chance of using the TPE on Crowder? I believe he fits and Phoenix wants to create some cap space. Would love to have him back.
(06-24-2022, 01:03 AM)jon.neal52 Wrote: [ -> ]Any chance of using the TPE on Crowder? I believe he fits and Phoenix wants to create some cap space. Would love to have him back.
Crowder certainly fits, and I'm sure the Mavs would love to grab him for free. I highly doubt the Suns just move off of him though for space. It seems likely they're going to let Ayton walk, and if they do they almost have to keep everyone else to even remotely remain in the same tier of competitive-ness.
Also would you be willing to trade future draft capital for Crowder in a Crowder-TPE deal? I'm sure the Suns will want at least 1 first, and it's hard for me to get excited for him at that price when a guy like PJ Tucker is available for this year at the TP-MLE for 2-3 years.
If we assume Hardy is a lock for the 15-man, then 1 of 2 things seems to be true:
1 The Mavs aren't getting BOTH Dragic plus a different wing using the MLE, or
2 There's still a big trade being pursued, that we haven't got wind of.
Why? Too many players.
I'm about 50-50 on which.
They do need to off-load a big salary if they can, that's for sure, because you don't want to be paying 15-20M to a player who's not even playoff-playable PLUS the 60M or so in tax he will be costing you. That's a big amount of money, and it would be a major move to get off of a player like that.
We also have ASSUMED that Dragic is assured, and will come for the minimum. But maybe not. Maybe he's the "wing" and will get the MLE - and is replacement for all of $3.5M Boban (who was paid 3.5M to be Luka's security blanket) and $3.15M Burke (to be the emergency creator) and $3.0M Brown (signed to be a backup small wing).
Tyreke is going to make this team.
(06-24-2022, 11:52 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Tyreke is going to make this team.
Man, if he wants Burke's old job, he just might.
(06-24-2022, 12:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Man, if he wants Burke's old job, he just might.
Far more useful in that role with a much larger toolbox. Burke's replacement is exactly how I envisioned him when it was announced he was coming to camp.
Not sure where roster spots will be coming from -- the number of players planned to be on the roster is an issue.
Pinson seems like a waste, and I would hope he becomes a coach or staff. But staff and coaches (other than head coach) make far less than players, and getting 10 years is a big deal because of pension benefits.
(06-24-2022, 12:31 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure where roster spots will be coming from -- the number of players planned to be on the roster is an issue.
Pinson seems like a waste, and I would hope he becomes a coach or staff. But staff and coaches (other than head coach) make far less than players, and getting 10 years is a big deal because of pension benefits.
What's the minimum for Pinson? Since we traded Boban, I've had Pinson penciled in to take that bench spot.
(06-24-2022, 11:42 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]
We also have ASSUMED that Dragic is assured, and will come for the minimum. But maybe not. Maybe he's the "wing" and will get the MLE - and is replacement for all of $3.5M Boban (who was paid 3.5M to be Luka's security blanket) and $3.15M Burke (to be the emergency creator) and $3.0M Brown (signed to be a backup small wing).
Not all of us assumed it was a minimum.
(06-24-2022, 12:37 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Not all of us assumed it was a minimum.
True.
If you sign a bigger wing to the MLE (like OPJ, Young, etc) or a C (like Smith, Hartenstein, etc), while also getting Dragic, then Dragic at the minimum is the only way to have Dragic too. But Dragic could be their competition, or could not even be in Mav plans at all. We'll see what plays out.
(06-24-2022, 12:36 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]What's the minimum for Pinson? Since we traded Boban, I've had Pinson penciled in to take that bench spot.
On a one-year-only, it's about 1.8M or so.