(07-28-2021, 11:16 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I find it unlikely that Toronto will want to take on KP contract, but that would certainly change the narrative. Even at 3/90 that leaves roughly 38 mil in cap available. Now names like Holmes, Powell, Dinwiddie, Noel that we are rumored to be interested in makes more sense. I would still prefer to ditch THJ for Holmes/Powell, but a Lowry/Holmes/THJ offseason would not be bad. You could make the argument that adding Holmes and Lowry make THJ defense in starting lineup less of an issue.
I'm not sure it would for me. I don't buy for a second they'd accept floated idea of JRich/Powell but that would help me see Lowry as ~8M year one, ~19M year two and hope that the 3rd year isn't fully guaranteed. But a KP for Lowry swap, straight up? I know his value is low but I'd be disappointed in the asset management there. At least until I see what we did with the remaining cap space.
(07-28-2021, 11:26 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure it would for me. I don't buy for a second they'd accept floated idea of JRich/Powell but that would help me see Lowry as ~8M year one, ~19M year two and hope that the 3rd year isn't fully guaranteed. But a KP for Lowry swap, straight up? I know his value is low but I'd be disappointed in the asset management there. At least until I see what we did with the remaining cap space.
I agree with it heavily depending on what they do with the cap space, but it we are trading KP for an S&T then we are trading him for air. It does not matter if its Lowry or Conley or DeRozan or Kawhi or we just give him to a team for nothing. He is still getting traded for air. I'm not saying it changes the outlook on signing Lowry to that deal, but rather it changes the outlook on the offseason as a whole.
(07-28-2021, 11:37 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with it heavily depending on what they do with the cap space, but it we are trading KP for an S&T then we are trading him for air. It does not matter if its Lowry or Conley or DeRozan or Kawhi or we just give him to a team for nothing. He is still getting traded for air. I'm not saying it changes the outlook on signing Lowry to that deal, but rather it changes the outlook on the offseason as a whole.
I am all about getting out from under KP's albatross for (essentially) free.
(07-28-2021, 11:37 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with it heavily depending on what they do with the cap space, but it we are trading KP for an S&T then we are trading him for air. It does not matter if its Lowry or Conley or DeRozan or Kawhi or we just give him to a team for nothing. He is still getting traded for air. I'm not saying it changes the outlook on signing Lowry to that deal, but rather it changes the outlook on the offseason as a whole.
How can this be misconstrued as “air” when Lowry for 3 years at $30M is coming back? That is very far from “air”!
(07-28-2021, 11:47 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]How can this be misconstrued as “air” when Lowry for 3 years at $30M is coming back? That is very far from “air”!
I think the point is that we can get Lowry with or without KP going out. So if KP is going out it's because we prefer "air" to KP.
(07-29-2021, 12:00 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]I think the point is that we can get Lowry with or without KP going out. So if KP is going out it's because we prefer "air" to KP.
Eh, it’s still a trade for KP, too much of a stretch for me. It’s like saying if you squint your eyes and look from a distance while drunk, Rebel Wilson looks like Heidi Klum.
(07-28-2021, 11:22 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]I know it's useless, but I just can't let this stand this way.
Luka can't defend scoring PGs on the perimeter.
THJs defensive problems are, that he doesn't know what to do. That's great in a switchheavy defense.
Letting your non-offense center getting switched makes it useless to play him.
But worst of all: putting Dwight into a can't switch category.
Ouch.
Not with ya, Mapka. In a switcheroo defense, your pg defender doesn’t stay on the pg, so the individual matchups are quite beside the point. Yeah, THJ isn’t great on D. Right. Previously mentioned. Doesn’t mean he can’t switch. Just means he isn’t a plus defender—regardless of scheme. Think you’re underestimating the value of having a switch-capable rim defender on the floor. And Dwight, through no fault of his own, gives up free throws nearly every on-ball possession he defends, usually for placing his chin on someone’s elbow.
Feel free to throw another takedown my way.
(07-28-2021, 10:49 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: [ -> ]You can tell a lot about a player from reading what the fan base has to say. Toronto absolutely adores Kyle Lowry and many consider him the greatest Raptor of all time - I also have seen many that love the pairing with Luka. Pelicans fans do not give an F about losing Lonzo and are surprised by the numbers being rumored for his next contract.
Also worth pointing out that New Orleans has had Ball for the last couple seasons, and they could easily keep him, guaranteed, with a much lower caphold than Lowry's potential salary. And yet the view even the potential of signing Lowry as such a large upgrade over Ball that they're willing to let him go for nothing. Obviously, N.O. could be wrong in their evaluation, but it's telling of how they think about Lonzo.
(07-29-2021, 12:00 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]I think the point is that we can get Lowry with or without KP going out. So if KP is going out it's because we prefer "air" to KP.
To me, it only counts as air when you don’t already have a prearranged deal as to how you’re going to use it. Creating space to have space has proven to be fool’s gold. But there’s no reason to assume the new Mavs’ leadership is fool panning.
(07-29-2021, 01:31 AM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]To me, it only counts as air when you don’t already have a prearranged deal as to how you’re going to use it. Creating space to have space has proven to be fool’s gold. But there’s no reason to assume the new Mavs’ leadership is fool panning.
Yeah that's fair but that's why I put "air" in quotes, because I'm assuming there would be a specific player in mind, i.e. Holmes.
(07-29-2021, 01:23 AM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Ouch.
Not with ya, Mapka. In a switcheroo defense, your pg defender doesn’t stay on the pg, so the individual matchups are quite beside the point. Yeah, THJ isn’t great on D. Right. Previously mentioned. Doesn’t mean he can’t switch. Just means he isn’t a plus defender—regardless of scheme. Think you’re underestimating the value of having a switch-capable rim defender on the floor. And Dwight, through no fault of his own, gives up free throws nearly every on-ball possession he defends, usually for placing his chin on someone’s elbow.
Feel free to throw another takedown my way.
This last sentence is so on point
.
So you really want to play a switch everything defense? The offense just sets picks until they have their missmatch and trust me there is always one. Good defenses preswitch or avoid switches at all.
'Tis draft day! 4 days to free agency.
(07-28-2021, 10:19 PM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]Just putting this here because apparently Kyle Lowry was a do-nothing tag-along during Toronto's title run
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jusjl1MsV-A
Time to sign Marc Gasol to the max as well he was awesome in 2019.
(07-29-2021, 10:35 AM)haveitall Wrote: [ -> ]
Time to sign Marc Gasol to the max as well he was awesome in 2019.
Gasol was absolutely an important player for their team then. However, he has very noticeably dropped off after that, to a much more severe degree than Lowry.
(07-29-2021, 10:52 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]Gasol was absolutely an important player for their team then. However, he has very noticeably dropped off after that, to a much more severe degree than Lowry.
Good point. Gasol was already 35 years at that point, while Lowry is only.... oops.
(07-29-2021, 11:13 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Good point. Gasol was already 35 years at that point, while Lowry is only.... oops.
You’d have the Mavs stock the roster full of newborns if that was allowed.
(07-29-2021, 01:29 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]Also worth pointing out that New Orleans has had Ball for the last couple seasons, and they could easily keep him, guaranteed, with a much lower caphold than Lowry's potential salary. And yet the view even the potential of signing Lowry as such a large upgrade over Ball that they're willing to let him go for nothing. Obviously, N.O. could be wrong in their evaluation, but it's telling of how they think about Lonzo.
That argument could be more about fit. They want a pure point guard and Ball does not fit that bill. He actually fits much better next to Luka (who will obviously do much of the point guard heavy lifting).
(07-28-2021, 11:47 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]How can this be misconstrued as “air” when Lowry for 3 years at $30M is coming back? That is very far from “air”!
The decision for Lowry is prior to the S&T. You have to agree with Lowry on a contract before you can S&T with Toronto. You can make the argument that you are not trading KP for air unless you land a big free agent (like Lowry). Maybe you can even make the argument that you are willing to spend a little more on Lowry if you can dump KP (that would depend on a prior conversation with Toronto). But they really are two separate events. Signing UFA Lowry (who we can sign with cap space assuming we dump JRich if necessary), and sending KP back with no other return.
(07-29-2021, 01:20 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]That argument could be more about fit. They want a pure point guard and Ball does not fit that bill. He actually fits much better next to Luka (who will obviously do much of the point guard heavy lifting).
Just really strange how the definition of a true PG has changed over the years. I would argue that Ball is the closest thing to some of the old school floor generals of the early 2000s. But he isn´t the modern day high volume/usage primary ballhandler.
I wonder if guys like TMac and Kobe would be viewed as PGs these days. They had similar on ball creation rates and assist numbers as current PGs like Walker or Morant.