(02-17-2022, 01:48 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see the issue. I don't see players being overused. I don't see small ball, either, just regular-sized rotations with switchable players.
DP 24 Maxi 24 (Chriss, Bobi)
DFS 30 Bertans 18
Bullock 30 Green 18 (Brown)
Brunson 30 (Franky) (THJ)
Dinwiddie 30
Luka 30 (Burke)
6 minutes unaccounted for at PG/SG, but easy to cover in many ways.
I think thats about right. I would argue both DP and Maxi are undersized centers, and DFS is an undersized PF, thus the suggestion of small ball. One could also argue that with both Maxi and Bertans being injury prone, the front court will get really thin if one of them are out.
Adding Holmes gives you more size and rebounding in the starting lineup, and a lot more depth. Then Maxi/Bertans/DFS can share PF duties, and DFS plays plenty at the 3. He will eat into Bullock and Green minutes (which seem a little too high anyways). If everybody is healthy, it might get a little crowded on minutes, but that is rarely the case.
fit matters..especially in such one-dimensional roleplayers.. And in the NBA that revolves everything around your Superstar... we don't have to go very far, recently we have seen JRich or KP himself fail. (.far superior players) Tim or DFS... while they got their bag, simply because they fit Luka's game.. D.Bertans shooting about 55% from the corner (running numbers) that's all the most used player in the league needs..a guy standing in the corner,that's efficient.. I'm pretty sure that Bertans is going to do the best numbers of his career with Luka... and we will love him and against him... If I was the GM of the Mavs, and I had to build around Luka...I wouldn't worry about getting him a 2 or 3 star...it surrounds the guy with elite role players like Anunoby/Gobert/Bridges/Dort/Isaak etc
(02-17-2022, 02:27 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I feel like folks are getting way too excited about Bertans. He is considered one of the worst contracts in the league. There are reasons for that. Whether its his lack of defense, his injury issues, the fact that his only contribution on the court is to shoot corner threes, likely all of the above. He has had one good season in his career. The idea that we would be hesitant to send him out in a trade for Collins is greatly over valuing his likely impact on the court.
Out of curiosity, I went to Google and did a simple "worst contracts in the NBA" search. Bertans doesn't show up on every list, but as you say, he's high on a lot of them. But the commentary on every single list that includes him bangs on his current shooting percentage as *the* reason it's a bad contract. To people's point, if the Mavs can rehabilitate him to his historic shooting percentages, then it may not be a great contract but it's also not an awful one.
(02-17-2022, 02:36 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]He had three seasons in a row (leading up to this one) of 62+% (!!!) TS% while posting +10.6, +7.9, +6.4 On/Off +/- numbers.
Dirk never had a season of 62+% TS% and Nash had four in his whole career. And the greatest shooter of all-time (Steph Curry) has had six in his career.
I am NOT saying that DB is a superstar like those guys (so no one please strawman what I am saying), but he is a damn good (elite?) shooter and did that for three seasons in a row before this one.
And yet he has been a bench player his entire career and his previous team and fans couldn't wait to see him go. I'm not saying he is useless on the court (although he has been this year) but he is not a player you worry about giving up for Collins.
I have several thoughts and some of them conflict. I don't want to spend 20 plus million on a center unless he is a stud, but I feel like the Mavs need to upgrade center. I view Maxi more of a PF type than center. I also think if the Mavs need to spend their assets and money on a higher tier PF. Although I agree with Dan that is also important to be flexible as you don't know what star player will be available and gettable. Get him and worry about fit later imo.
I like how Powell is playing, but I would like to find an upgrade to him where he becomes a valuable bench piece. In theory, Dallas has three guys who can get to the basket now and create (Luka, JB SD). They have 4-5 guys who should be good open three point shooters (Maxi, Bullock, Hardaway, Bertans, DFS) and they have one rim runner. To really put defenses in a pickle, they need that one more big man who can defend, score inside, rebound well, punish smaller defenders, and not clog the middle. I really think as the year goes on, not having someone who can get easy baskets inside is going to be a problem.
I am not sure if my take is what the Mavs are thinking but to me that is what I would look for.
(02-17-2022, 03:24 PM)Arioch Wrote: [ -> ]Out of curiosity, I went to Google and did a simple "worst contracts in the NBA" search. Bertans doesn't show up on every list, but as you say, he's high on a lot of them. But the commentary on every single list that includes him bangs on his current shooting percentage as *the* reason it's a bad contract. To people's point, if the Mavs can rehabilitate him to his historic shooting percentages, then it may not be a great contract but it's also not an awful one.
I agree. I made that reference (which got way more response than my actual point) based on multiple lists I have read during TDL. His contract was consistently higher on the list than KP. I can see that he can turn into a useful bench player if utilized correctly, which is more likely here than on the Wiz. That still does not mean you worry about sending him out in a Collins trade though, right?
(02-17-2022, 03:27 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I agree. I made that reference (which got way more response than my actual point) based on multiple lists I have read during TDL. His contract was consistently higher on the list than KP. I can see that he can turn into a useful bench player if utilized correctly, which is more likely here than on the Wiz. That still does not mean you worry about sending him out in a Collins trade though, right?
Not sure anyone disagrees with you on that point (that if Bertrans can be part of deal that nets you Collins, you pull the trigger without a second thought). Kammrath said exactly that in the post before the one of his you were responding too. What I saw people arguing was that
a) If the Mavs can rehabilitate Bertrans then you don't need to look to just salary dump him
and
b) If the Mavs can rehabilitate Bertrans then he could be a piece in getting a real upgrade (like Collins)
(02-17-2022, 03:25 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]I have several thoughts and some of them conflict. I don't want to spend 20 plus million on a center unless he is a stud, but I feel like the Mavs need to upgrade center. I view Maxi more of a PF type than center. I also think if the Mavs need to spend their assets and money on a higher tier PF. Although I agree with Dan that is also important to be flexible as you don't know what star player will be available and gettable. Get him and worry about fit later imo.
I like how Powell is playing, but I would like to find an upgrade to him where he becomes a valuable bench piece. In theory, Dallas has three guys who can get to the basket now and create (Luka, JB SD). They have 4-5 guys who should be good open three point shooters (Maxi, Bullock, Hardaway, Bertans, DFS) and they have one rim runner. To really put defenses in a pickle, they need that one more big man who can defend, score inside, rebound well, punish smaller defenders, and not clog the middle. I really think as the year goes on, not having someone who can get easy baskets inside is going to be a problem.
I am not sure if my take is what the Mavs are thinking but to me that is what I would look for.
I see it this way also. If true, any Holmes related deal (using him as a proxy for the kind of center you are talking about) should be for Maxi instead of Powell. Big rotation then becomes:
Holmes/Powell
DFS/Bertans
Someone smarter than me can figure out who gets picks and what else to add to the deal. You have all sorts of wing options who can shoot, defend or both and three ball handlers to round out the rotation.
I get that no one wants to lose Maxi, but you have to give to get. If 93% of the board wants to dump Powell, then it is a pretty good bet a real NBA GM isn’t going to give us a quality starter for the guy we want to dump (plus, as I’ve said, Maxi is a better fit next to Sabonis and if we are going to fantasy trade, we might as well consider the other team as part of the process). To me, the biggest issue with trading Maxi is you probably don’t want to do it before his buddy Brunson signs.
I think Atlanta is at an interesting spot. I think they are well positioned with their assets. I believe Collins has missed the last two games and they have scored a ton in those games. I am not saying Collins is the reason, but it is something to monitor. If Onyeka and Hunter play well down the stretch, Atlanta will have several paths (They also have a rookie from Duke who is not playing but was a high recruit a year ago).
If Onyeka and Hunter play well, Collins could be moved. He is not a top 25 player. Top 30? You have to be careful playing big number to multiple guys who are probably not all stars. I would lean towards moving Capella and Galinari, but I don't think either would bring much back in return. Would Dallas have a honest offer for Collins? We would lack a player who would improve their roster now, but could offer draft capital and decent contracts. I think ATL is still big game hunting and would want Collins as the piece to get them a big name. But I think Dallas would have a chance if Collins was available....maybe not the best chance.
Kings have 11 players under contract for 2022-23 with Lyles being a team option. Burke, Boban, Brown, $$$ and the 2022 pick for Holmes gets them off of Holmes a couple of years early.
Holmes - Powell
Maxi - Bertans
DFS - Bullock/Green
JB - THJ/Green
Luka - Dinwiddie
Could Maxi + THJ or Bullock get you in the conversation for Collins? THJ maybe to a 3rd team?
Holmes - Powell
Collins - Bertans
DFS - Green (or Bullock)
JB - Green (or THJ)
Luka - Dinwiddie
Front court gets remade on the fly. Luxury Tax is murder. If nothing else, the more I look at the roster the more I do some some avenues to improving the front court.
(02-17-2022, 03:35 PM)Arioch Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure anyone disagrees with you on that point (that if Bertrans can be part of deal that nets you Collins, you pull the trigger without a second thought). Kammrath said exactly that in the post before the one of his you were responding too. What I saw people arguing was that
a) If the Mavs can rehabilitate Bertrans then you don't need to look to just salary dump him
and
b) If the Mavs can rehabilitate Bertrans then he could be a piece in getting a real upgrade (like Collins)
Actually the original post I was responded suggested just that (reservations about giving up Bertans in a Collins trade).
I think the goal would be to rehabilitate Bertans so you can salary dump him without burning assets. To think he could be worth anything more than salary filler in a Collins trade is wildly hopeful.
(02-17-2022, 02:27 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I feel like folks are getting way too excited about Bertans. He is considered one of the worst contracts in the league. There are reasons for that. Whether its his lack of defense, his injury issues, the fact that his only contribution on the court is to shoot corner threes, likely all of the above. He has had one good season in his career. The idea that we would be hesitant to send him out in a trade for Collins is greatly over valuing his likely impact on the court.
I think you will be way wrong on all of this. We'll see.
Yes he was (while on the Wiz) considered a bad contract, playing on a team that misused his skills. The reason is no mystery - he wasn't getting minutes and shots. Way down from prior years. But I expect Bertans, on a team who wants him to get and take shots, who needs elite shooters, will prove to be a hugely important contributor to success.
To me, this is the marksman upgrade we've needed from THJ. DB's skill set is more suited to Luka, and his C/S shot is more consistent.
(02-17-2022, 04:54 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]To me, this is the marksman upgrade we've needed from THJ. DB's skill set is more suited to Luka, and his C/S shot is more consistent.
Wait until he's out there
with Bullock and/or THJ (hopeful playing better again).
Talk about space for Luka to cook. Yikes!
(02-17-2022, 03:02 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]It may work out that way after the trade, but it has been a revelation for me to read your take on MK being exclusively a C. Revelation both from the standpoint that you think he was pretrade, and that only a couple people challenges you on it.
MK has been more exclusively a PF than anything else throughout his career.
It has to do with the weirdly composed roster. When the Mavs had centers out the wazoo, you couldn't get your better players on the floor, so they'd play 2 at a time. KP and Maxi were used at PF, stretching the floor with their shot.
But with KP out of the mix, it's essentially been DP-Maxi alternating and splitting 48 mins.
not wanting Holmes.. marginal improvement of Powell. same defects and virtues.. lack of size, average defender for the position (in the best of cases) and does not solve the problem with rebounds.. how does this make us better? .I hope to get a defensive anchor..Turner expires this year and I don't think he wants to stay on a lottery team.(they'll have to move him).. MRobinson is coming to FA.. Wizards are over 5..maybe we could get Gafford out.. these 3 or Gobert if he is available (I think he will be and with that contract he should not be very valuable)
(02-18-2022, 04:19 AM)Mikelo Wrote: [ -> ]not wanting Holmes.. marginal improvement of Powell. same defects and virtues.. lack of size, average defender for the position (in the best of cases) and does not solve the problem with rebounds.. how does this make us better? .I hope to get a defensive anchor..Turner expires this year and I don't think he wants to stay on a lottery team.(they'll have to move him).. MRobinson is coming to FA.. Wizards are over 5..maybe we could get Gafford out.. these 3 or Gobert if he is available (I think he will be and with that contract he should not be very valuable)
THJ to Indiana to reunite with Rick
DMN article :
Some interesting info.
“Chicken and rice and vegetables is the most popular [with me] because I don’t eat a lot of seafood,” Doncic said of his new habits. “Mostly just eating healthier. … That was the key to be here.”
His physical improvement has helped him avoid major injury issues — and heal nagging ailments faster than he recovered from the left knee and ankle sprains that lingered after he first suffered them Nov. 15.
He hasn’t missed a game since Jan. 7 and his presence and production has positioned the Mavericks to push for home-court advantage after the All-Star break.
Before the season, he talked with the Mavericks’ front office leaders about the possibility of adding veteran point guard Goran Dragic to the team as a backup ball handler.
Doncic was all for it.
He’s known Dragic since he was 5 years old, when Dragic and Sasa played on the same KD Slovan team and 5-year-old Luka would tag along to shoot hoops during halftime.
“My father was his mentor,” Doncic said.
The Mavericks could arrange a reunion now that Dragic has reportedly agreed to a contract buyout with the Spurs to become a mid-season free agent. But general manager Nico Harrison said after the trade deadline he didn’t plan to make another roster move.
Doncic hasn’t pushed any more for his fellow Slovenian to join him — yet.
“He’s my guy,” Doncic said. “Everybody would want their guys on their team, so we’ll see.”
(02-18-2022, 09:31 AM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]“Chicken and rice and vegetables is the most popular [with me] because I don’t eat a lot of seafood,” Doncic said of his new habits. “Mostly just eating healthier. … That was the key to be here.”
His physical improvement has helped him avoid major injury issues — and heal nagging ailments faster than he recovered from the left knee and ankle sprains that lingered after he first suffered them Nov. 15.
He hasn’t missed a game since Jan. 7 and his presence and production has positioned the Mavericks to push for home-court advantage after the All-Star break.
There it is.
Thank God he seems to be learning his lesson here. I hope it sticks. If it does, he will unlock his unlimited ceiling again. Him eating healthy is one of, if not THE most important factor in the trajectory of his career.
(02-17-2022, 04:54 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I think you will be way wrong on all of this. We'll see.
Yes he was (while on the Wiz) considered a bad contract, playing on a team that misused his skills. The reason is no mystery - he wasn't getting minutes and shots. Way down from prior years. But I expect Bertans, on a team who wants him to get and take shots, who needs elite shooters, will prove to be a hugely important contributor to success.
To me, this is the marksman upgrade we've needed from THJ. DB's skill set is more suited to Luka, and his C/S shot is more consistent.
Yes, we shall see. He actually got more minutes and shots on the Wiz than he did on the Spurs until this year, and that is because he has been unplayable. He only had two seasons in his career where he averaged more than 8 points a game, and one more that 12 and he has never been a starter. At 29, I'm not sure why expect him to take a huge leap. We see all the time that a player can have a certain efficiency with limited minutes against bench units, but that it does not scale well when you increase their minutes. If we rehab his career, a reasonable expectation is 20 minutes and 10 points a game on efficient shooting. With nothing else to provide on the court, that is not worth more than MLE. At 17 mil a year, that is still a bad contract that requires an asset to move.
