(04-05-2022, 09:42 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]But why would Dragic decide, before he knows what JB will do? Or wait for him to decide, if he has other options.
There is a reason nearly everyone is waiting for the big fish. And there is a reason the worst contracts are signed at the start of FA. (Don't get me wrong, the best are also signed early).
If you aren't the one for Mrs. Right, you will be scrambling. There is no planing for the Chaos.
There are plenty of reasons to choose from, he can make that decision for himself. If he says no, you move down the list.
(04-05-2022, 09:48 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Free agency should open on June 30, 2022...one week after the draft on June 23, 2022.
The NBA calendar is going back to normal this year.
We will see.
But then, they will adjust TPE dates too.
(04-05-2022, 09:49 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]There are plenty of reasons to choose from, he can make that decision for himself. If he says no, you move down the list.
So:
Plan A keep Brunson.
Plan B let's have a look if there is a Monta has it all left.
By the way. I'm pretty sure Dragic' agent us on speed deal since over a year.
And we are "in contact via agents" with a lot of players we like.
Do we know where the whole "Brunson wants to be the lead guard" idea came about? Did it come directly from Brunson/his camp? Was it even a rumor?
I don't even remember reading something saying that. The only things I've seen have been NYK buzz that's mainly driven from the side of NYK (i.e. NYK will make Brunson their first target, not vice versa). Also some Detroit buzz that they're interested in Brunson too.
All I'm saying is let's not get too ahead of ourselves. If the Mavs offer Brunson a competitive contract (and we've seen no evidence they wouldn't do so otherwise), I don't see why JB would want to leave.
(04-05-2022, 10:24 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Do we know where the whole "Brunson wants to be the lead guard" idea came about? Did it come directly from Brunson/his camp? Was it even a rumor?
I don't even remember reading something saying that. The only things I've seen have been NYK buzz that's mainly driven from the side of NYK (i.e. NYK will make Brunson their first target, not vice versa). Also some Detroit buzz that they're interested in Brunson too.
All I'm saying is let's not get too ahead of ourselves. If the Mavs offer Brunson a competitive contract (and we've seen no evidence they wouldn't do so otherwise), I don't see why JB would want to leave.
If I remember correctly it was a tweeted quote directly from JB around the same time JKidd was quoted as saying JB is gonna get paid this offseason.
(04-05-2022, 09:56 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]We will see.
But then, they will adjust TPE dates too.
If you want your argument to be taken seriously, don’t say “we will see” when facts are presented. Kamm is absolutely right on this.
As to the adjustment of dates, FG and I discussed this weeks ago. This will be the second time the start date of free agency has changed. The year before free agency was in November and then moved to August for this season. There is no evidence that TPE dates were shortened then. Various sites that track this kind of thing did not adjust dates to reflect different start dates for last season. The reason I said we don’t have “certainty” around this is neither FG nor I could come up with a trade during the period in question that used a TPE. The rules say one year. Hoopshype and Spotrac are carrying them for a full year on their site. That is why I said the most likely outcome is the TPE is available through the end of July and fully usable during free agency 2022.
I get the interest by NYK and DET in JB. Probably other teams as well who aren't on the radar.
There also seems to be a real intent by DAL to keep JB in house.
My question is... where is the limit on his payday? At what point does DAL say "Thanks for your time, JB, but we can't justify that contract"? This assumes we are past the old MBT stupid money contracts, which may not be reality. (FWIW, I also worry about bidding against ourselves.)
My second question is...assuming playoff success and JB getting poached away, would the 3 guard lineup success make DAL more appealing to potential replacements?
(04-04-2022, 09:23 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I find it funny you write AD off (and I agree with everything you wrote here), but in the next post you say:
I think all those monikers apply even more to Simmons. Curious that you don't think the guy who has quit on every single team where he didn't get his way would be the perfect guy to play 2nd fiddle next to Luka for the foreseeable future.
Mind you I don't think either of these guys are available. But even if they were I wouldn't want to trade for either of them (not like the Mavs could put together realistic packages anyways).
Yeah, so...two different points in the conversation.
With AD (who might actually be available soon) I was realistically analyzing his fit with the Mavs (imo).
With Simmons, I was just trying to add to the "short list" we were making of players who fit the criteria of this discussion. I agree he's not available anymore, and I think I even said something like "even I admit talking about him is getting tedious" meaning that it's getting harder to defend his actions this year. I wasn't really suggesting him as an option for the Mavs, just arguing for his inclusion on the list.
But, fwiw, I think he's also a better player than Davis, looking past the negatives for each. Can't be said enough: Simmons (if he ever plays again) might be the best defensive player on the planet right now. It's either he or Giannis, I'd think.
(04-05-2022, 11:14 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]If you want your argument to be taken seriously, don’t say “we will see” when facts are presented. Kamm is absolutely right on this.
As to the adjustment of dates, FG and I discussed this weeks ago. This will be the second time the start date of free agency has changed. The year before free agency was in November and then moved to August for this season. There is no evidence that TPE dates were shortened then. Various sites that track this kind of thing did not adjust dates to reflect different start dates for last season. The reason I said we don’t have “certainty” around this is neither FG nor I could come up with a trade during the period in question that used a TPE. The rules say one year. Hoopshype and Spotrac are carrying them for a full year on their site. That is why I said the most likely outcome is the TPE is available through the end of July and fully usable during free agency 2022.
I can't find any confirmed dates for this.
NBA.com
Google says it is 08.02.2022.
Dates for guarantees were adjusted. I just can't see the NBA being fine with using a TPE from two seasons ago.
(04-05-2022, 11:34 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Google says it is 08.02.2022.
Well Google is wrong. 8/2/2021 was the free agency date at the open of THIS season. But the NBA has stated they will resume their normal calendar. It will not be August 2 this year.
You are correct that the date hasn't been announced, but we know the NBA offices close and take vacation for a week after the draft (6/23/2022) and then free agency is the beginning of the new NBA season. It may not be exactly June 30, 2022 when free agency "opens" but I will bet a LOT of money it will be very close to that date.
(04-05-2022, 11:55 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Well Google is wrong. 8/2/2021 was the free agency date at the open of THIS season. But the NBA has stated they will resume their normal calendar. It will not be August 2 this year.
You are correct that the date hasn't been announced, but we know the NBA offices close and take vacation for a week after the draft (6/23/2022) and then free agency is the beginning of the new NBA season. It may not be exactly June 30, 2022 when free agency "opens" but I will bet a LOT of money it will be very close to that date.
Fair. Still don't believe in the TPE being available in the FA, but we will know it then.
(04-05-2022, 06:15 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I don't agree. You are operating under assumption that Brunson wants to stay. If that is the fact, than your job is easy and there is likely very difficult to find a better scenario than resign him. But it is also possible that Brunson will leave no matter what. Because he wants to be the lead PG. Even if you offer max salary. It is possible he will not tell you about his plans, because he is "focusing on the season and will think about it in June". It is also possible that he really doesn't want to think about it before June. That is why you need to have all scenarios covered.
The real good GM finds a positive outcome out of that scenario. This can't happen if you are surprised by Brunson stating he will sign with Knicks on the opening day of FA. There are possible scenarios where you use outgoing Brunson salary in a trade for a player you want, which enables you to send zero salary to the team selling the player. I think a good GM has to explore those options. Good GM will see who can be available in the trade and what the opposing team wants in return. Is there a good player where a team values that they don't get salary back, just picks? These are cases where Brunson contract could become valuable. If he declares he wants to leave.
I agree with all of this, but they are somewhat limited in this. I think most of us agree the best outcome is that Brunson stays here. I think it is extremely unlikely there is a scenario where an S&T makes more sense than simply signing him ourselves if he is willing. So if he is unwilling to sign with us, then we have little to no impact on where he does decide to go. At that point, it will be a matter of the Mavs working with that team to see if they can come up with something mutually beneficial.
So from a due diligence standpoint, they should explore any S&T scenario that would be better than signing him themselves (I think there is very little chance of this making sense, but you still check it out), and they should at least get a feel for what they would like to do with each of the potential destinations if he walks. But if he walks, the potential trade value is going to be highly dependent on that teams cap situation. If its somebody like Detroit, its hard to imagine getting much value at all as they already have the space.
Still need to figure out what the future finishing lineup is supposed to be. If you keep Brunson, Dinwiddie stays as the 6th man, do they finish the game together? Probably means Josh Green is not the future there then? You can't pay Brunson and Dinwiddie ~$20mil each and not have one of them in the closing lineup. This year while Josh Green is still developing, the decision isn't too difficult. This playoffs, Brunson & Dinwiddie will probably be closing, with maybe Bullock if they're protecting a lead or something like that, but what do you do once you feel Josh Green is ready? If you have timeouts you can make defensive substitutions but that option won't always be available. I think if you don't plan on having Josh Green in the closing lineup he should be traded.
Luka/Brunson/Dinwiddie/Dorian/Center or Luka/2nd playmaker/Josh Green/Dorian/Center or you can make a move to get another playmaker at another position like wing or big to keep the 3 playmaker lineup with size. I feel like Josh Green has some 3rd option playmaker potential with his slashing/passing/inside scoring. Some options out there, just not sure exactly what the vision is.
(04-05-2022, 12:07 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: [ -> ]Still need to figure out what the future finishing lineup is supposed to be. If you keep Brunson, Dinwiddie stays as the 6th man, do they finish the game together? Probably means Josh Green is not the future there then? You can't pay Brunson and Dinwiddie ~$20mil each and not have one of them in the closing lineup. This year while Josh Green is still developing, the decision isn't too difficult. This playoffs, Brunson & Dinwiddie will probably be closing, with maybe Bullock if they're protecting a lead or something like that, but what do you do once you feel Josh Green is ready? If you have timeouts you can make defensive substitutions but that option won't always be available. I think if you don't plan on having Josh Green in the closing lineup he should be traded.
Luka/Brunson/Dinwiddie/Dorian/Center or Luka/2nd playmaker/Josh Green/Dorian/Center or you can make a move to get another playmaker at another position like wing or big to keep the 3 playmaker lineup with size. I feel like Josh Green has some 3rd option playmaker potential with his slashing/passing/inside scoring. Some options out there, just not sure exactly what the vision is.
If they keep Brunson, either Din or Brunson will be your 6th man. Many times a good 6th man is in your closing lineup (see Jet). I would expect both Brunson and Din to be in the closing lineup next year. My hope is that they acquire a starting center and the closing lineup is your mentioned Center/DFS/Luka/Din/Brunson.
Green is an 18th pick. Its a win if he becomes a solid rotational piece. We are a ways off from determining if can ever become a starter yet. We are certainly not to the point where we would make roster decisions with the intent of penciling him in as a starter. If he continues to progress and is pushing for starting/closing minutes the season after next, then its a good problem to have. At that point you can think about trading an asset.
Currently, I would argue both Brunson and Green probably provide the most value to us by staying here. Green wont garner much in a trade yet and unless Brunson price tag is crazy, he is worth more to us than what would likely get in an S&T.
(04-05-2022, 12:37 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]If they keep Brunson, either Din or Brunson will be your 6th man. Many times a good 6th man is in your closing lineup (see Jet). I would expect both Brunson and Din to be in the closing lineup next year. My hope is that they acquire a starting center and the closing lineup is your mentioned Center/DFS/Luka/Din/Brunson.
Green is an 18th pick. Its a win if he becomes a solid rotational piece. We are a ways off from determining if can ever become a starter yet. We are certainly not to the point where we would make roster decisions with the intent of penciling him in as a starter. If he continues to progress and is pushing for starting/closing minutes the season after next, then its a good problem to have. At that point you can think about trading an asset.
Currently, I would argue both Brunson and Green probably provide the most value to us by staying here. Green wont garner much in a trade yet and unless Brunson price tag is crazy, he is worth more to us than what would likely get in an S&T.
Good stuff! I think Green is part of the calculus on what to do with having so many guys who can play SF/SG. Specifically, if the right deal came along for THJ, I think how they see Green plays a role in going there. Same would apply to trade scenarios involving Bullock. Six guys all deserving rotation minutes at the 1, 2 and 3 (not to mention DFS when two bigs are playing with him) isn’t the best way to construct a playoff rotation. Someone can be turned into something better at another position and if it isn’t Green as the outgoing, I think he plays a role in the team being able to pull the trigger on someone else.
(04-05-2022, 11:17 AM)michaeltex Wrote: [ -> ]My question is... where is the limit on his payday? At what point does DAL say "Thanks for your time, JB, but we can't justify that contract"? This assumes we are past the old MBT stupid money contracts, which may not be reality. (FWIW, I also worry about bidding against ourselves.)
I am affraid Mavs are in the so called bird trap. They lose big time if the guy walks. So he has some leverage to extort them. I am not sure there is realistic way where Mavs would need to pay like max money. No one will likely offer that to Brunson. But numbers in the range of 20 per year are possible. I think it is better to pay up than let him walk.
(04-05-2022, 12:05 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]At that point, it will be a matter of the Mavs working with that team to see if they can come up with something mutually beneficial.
It is also possible to just use the Brunson outgoing to match the salary from the third team. This might be prefered by some teams than taking (for example) THJ. Mavs would also likely prefer to do it this way than include expiring contracts like Maxi/Powell/Bullock in the trade for that player. If I am GM, I am looking for this kind of deals.
(04-05-2022, 12:58 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I think Green is part of the calculus on what to do with having so many guys who can play SF/SG. Specifically, if the right deal came along for THJ, I think how they see Green plays a role in going there. Same would apply to trade scenarios involving Bullock. Six guys all deserving rotation minutes at the 1, 2 and 3 (not to mention DFS when two bigs are playing with him) isn’t the best way to construct a playoff rotation. Someone can be turned into something better at another position and if it isn’t Green as the outgoing, I think he plays a role in the team being able to pull the trigger on someone else.
I am with you on the clog of players at 1, 2, and 3.
This is exactly why I am of the opinion that the Mavs trade JB this summer OR next TDL/summer. And he is the odd man out for me for two reasons: 1) The size of contract and role he wants and 2) he is 6'1" with a small wingspan (6'4") and that is not conducive to the style of play I think the Mavs want to play defensively.
I personally see JG as a big part of the rotation moving forward and think he projects to add enough off the dribble and with playmaking to be one of the key rotation guys (while also offering more positional and defensive flexibility than JB).
(04-05-2022, 01:11 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I am with you on the clog of players at 1, 2, and 3.
This is exactly why I am of the opinion that the Mavs trade JB this summer OR next TDL/summer. And he is the odd man out for me for two reasons: 1) The size of contract and role he wants and 2) he is 6'1" with a small wingspan (6'4") and that is not conducive to the style of play I think the Mavs want to play defensively.
I personally see JG as a big part of the rotation moving forward and think he projects to add enough off the dribble and with playmaking to be one of the key rotation guys (while also offering more positional and defensive flexibility than JB).
Personally I keep Brunson if he wants to stay. Most of my discussion about him has been related to the possibility he doesn't want to. I was encouraged recently when I listened to Lauren Gunn on a podcast talk about how tight Brunson and Luka are. She doesn't think he's leaving.
I can see scenarios where any of Brunson, Green, THJ or Bullock aren't here next season. THJ seems to me to be the worst fit of the bunch. I'm with you on Green. He's got time and the flashes are such that he could end up being the best of the bunch before too long.
Not a fan of Brunson, although I'm very appreciative of what he gives the Mavs and I wouldn't want to lose what he provides. But I can see how he can price himself above what the Mavs should give him, and its wise for him to not give any discount -- unless he likes to compete. he know Luka gives him multiple chances every year to be in the play-offs and win a championship... And speaking of the play-offs, most of us think, the playoffs could determine his value and how much he can be paid. That is true. But I would think JB's playoff performance in comparison to Din-W could draw a picture of what JB and the Mavs think about his role moving forward. If Din provides a clear cut better contribution in the play-offs, then JB might think "Okay, Luka's the PG and Din-W is the PG when Luka's not, so.. do I want to be the third PG and be the undersized SG?"
Gobert will help immensely, specially during the regular season. Although I want him to be on the Mavs, I don't think it's a realistic scenario. If its THJ+Bullock+Brown+one FRP then fine. I wouldn't want to lose Maxi in a Gobert trade when you can't use Gobert in the play-offs. Including Maxi would essentially give the Mavs just DP in the play-offs.
Boban and Theo Pinson, can stay, if they're fine with not playing. If they don't hinder with significant plans for upgrade, then it wouldn't really hurt for the Mavs to have players who's roles has become support players in a different way.
Frankie needs to stay, specially if JB goes out.
The way to go for the other big should be a trade involving THJ. Any big really. If they get a switchable big, then its for the best. but if they get the slower and big bodied ones the that's okay too. At least keep your playoff bigs fresh and let the big C play in the regular season. We've gone over Holmes, Wood and Turner, but a THJ trade plus parts can net you lesser talent in Olynyk, Jaxson Hayes + Nance.
How about Boucher? what's his value? Can the Mavs just add him in free agency? Maybe a small upgrade in the front court would be fine. DP+Maxi+Boucher+Marquis+Boban+a rookie big? Still need to unload Burke and Sterling Brown though.
Although Bullock is a big help when he is connecting form the outside, I just feel Green would be the better player next season. RB's only advantage over Green right now is shooting. I couldn't stress this out: Trading should be THJ goes first before Bullock, and Bullock goes next before Green.
(04-05-2022, 01:11 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I am with you on the clog of players at 1, 2, and 3.
This is exactly why I am of the opinion that the Mavs trade JB this summer OR next TDL/summer. And he is the odd man out for me for two reasons: 1) The size of contract and role he wants and 2) he is 6'1" with a small wingspan (6'4") and that is not conducive to the style of play I think the Mavs want to play defensively.
I personally see JG as a big part of the rotation moving forward and think he projects to add enough off the dribble and with playmaking to be one of the key rotation guys (while also offering more positional and defensive flexibility than JB).
Looking at the rotation players it is:
1: Brunson, Dinwiddie
2: THJ, Green
3: Bullock
4: DFS, Bertans
5: Powell, Kleber
And Luka taking minutes at whatever position 1-4 or even 5. There is no clog at all.
Talking about style, Brunson is a willing defender, knows where to be and how to rotate and is strong.
He can play with Luka, off Luka and without him in our offense.
This wingspan thing is fine, if we talk about equal players.
But we are talking about a player predicted to get 18Mio+ or a player we can get with the TP-MLE.
Well, people here make Brunson the top FA for the teams with cap - lol.
Contenders are headheavy or have players squezed in their role.
We could use a little 3/4/5 but not by losing our 1/2/3 depth.
Our playing style can be tiring. Why would we cut down on rotation players.
(04-05-2022, 11:42 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Looking at the rotation players it is:
1: Brunson, Dinwiddie
2: THJ, Green
3: Bullock
4: DFS, Bertans
5: Powell, Kleber
And Luka taking minutes at whatever position 1-4 or even 5. There is no clog at all.
Talking about style, Brunson is a willing defender, knows where to be and how to rotate and is strong.
He can play with Luka, off Luka and without him in our offense.
This wingspan thing is fine, if we talk about equal players.
But we are talking about a player predicted to get 18Mio+ or a player we can get with the TP-MLE.
Well, people here make Brunson the top FA for the teams with cap - lol.
Contenders are headheavy or have players squezed in their role.
We could use a little 3/4/5 but not by losing our 1/2/3 depth.
Our playing style can be tiring. Why would we cut down on rotation players.
Also, if the Mavs later decide to trade Brunson, it's going to be far easier to trade him for equal or better value in 2023, when we won't have to deal with S&T issues, BYC, and the Mavs will have their full complement of picks to trade.