MavsBoard

(07-08-2022, 11:10 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]So alleged "new" information about this mess:

Only Lakers want Irving.

Nets don´t want Westbrook. So they need a 3rd team, now to be rumoured as Spurs. Westbrook buyout? 

Simmons very likely to stay with Nets.

Mitchell staying in Utah.

Pacers want Ayton.

Suns want Durant. Do they want Turner?

Spurs taking Westbrook and Ayton offer sheet threat are the only two dominos that can set this in motion.

Please sign an offer sheet and get the clock ticking!!!

(07-08-2022, 09:25 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]DFS hater.

No, obviously that's you for saying that.

If the Mavs would countenance offering DFS for Kyrie, I would be completely out as a Mavs fan.

Cow, Killer, myself, and probably others are well-aware that DFS is asymptotically close to being the only other untouchable besides Luka on the team. You trade DFS for Durant, or for a young stud. You don't trade him for high risk castles in the sky like Kyrie. Or Simmons. Or anyone remotely like that. Sure-thing stars solitarily, please, or leave GK alone.

(I know you meant it as a joke, but the chain yank deserves a stiff response, tbh)

PS - And by the way, you most certainly don't trade him for John Collins, unless there are a few first rounders coming back with him.

(07-08-2022, 11:38 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]No, obviously that's you for saying that.

Then the Mavs do NOT have junk for assets. They have players you would basically never part with. 

Just because nobody wants the players YOU don't want either doesn't mean the Mavs have no assets and a bunch of junk. 

If it was just Luka and junk then everyone on here would be willing to trade anyone but Luka. But they aren't. Because the Mavs actually DO have good players and assets that the league covets.

(07-08-2022, 12:09 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Then the Mavs do NOT have junk for assets. They have players you would basically never part with. 

Just because nobody wants the players YOU don't want either doesn't mean the Mavs have no assets and a bunch of junk. 

If it was just Luka and junk then everyone on here would be willing to trade anyone but Luka. But they aren't. Because the Mavs actually DO have good players and assets that the league covets.

I agree with this, but they aren’t young assets with offensive potential. That’s the problem. They are role player assets who are very attractive for contending teams that have all of their offensive talent in place. Hence, it is tough to move them in deals that result in a better Mavericks team. 

If the Mavericks were trying to blow things up, I feel like they could rack up picks by selling off those players one at a time. If Royce O’Neill is worth a first round pick, then DFS is worth two, no question. So is Kleber, probably. The problem is that the Mavericks don’t care about picks, even when they should. 

The guy who might have been useful in a trade to bring the Mavericks another talented piece that they need was Jalen Brunson. I suppose THJ or Dinwiddie might be useful to that same affect (to a lesser extent) but Dallas currently NEEDS them on the court. 

It’s not impossible, just really, really difficult. I definitely agree that Dallas has good players. I believe that is your overall point.

(07-08-2022, 12:22 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with this, but they aren’t young assets with offensive potential. That’s the problem. They are role player assets who are very attractive for contending teams that have all of their offensive talent in place. Hence, it is tough to move them in deals that result in a better Mavericks team. 

If the Mavericks were trying to blow things up, I feel like they could rack up picks by selling off those players one at a time. If Royce O’Neill is worth a first round pick, then DFS is worth two, no question. So is Kleber, probably. The problem is that the Mavericks don’t care about picks, even when they should. 

The guy who might have been useful in a trade to bring the Mavericks another talented piece that they need was Jalen Brunson. I suppose THJ or Dinwiddie might be useful to that same affect (to a lesser extent) but Dallas currently NEEDS them on the court. 

It’s not impossible, just really, really difficult. I definitely agree that Dallas has good players. I believe that is your overall point.

This. Would add that contract size and length also matters. DFS´s value probably increased because of his extension. Maxi on the other hand is expiring. Same for Wood. THJ and Dinwinddie are hard to judge. I guess it is up for debate if they are positive/negative assets.

Looking at "star" player packages the Mavs just don´t have enough to get into the conversation. They cannot send out four first round picks. They don´t have young lottery picks (at least non without a bust label...sorry Frank) on the roster.

(07-08-2022, 12:22 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I definitely agree that Dallas has good players. I believe that is your overall point.

That's my point. 

I am just tired of hearing that the Mavs have junk and no assets and nothing the league wants to make a trade. That is correct if you mean, "Nobody wants the Mavs bottom five players for their starter." (even though the Mavs just DID that by the way....)

To get good players you generally have to give good players and/or 1st round picks. So if we want the Mavs to trade for an impact starter we need to realize the CW trade will be the exception not the rule and need to be ready to let go of one or more of the current top 7 Mavs.

(07-08-2022, 12:36 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]They don´t have young lottery picks

Yeah, one of the things the Mavs did very, very wrong, imho, was how they tanked. 

I know we all love Dirk, and I in no way want this to come off as disrespectful to him, but those many, many seasons between the title in 2011 and the year DSJ was drafted really took their toll. Trying to be the 8th seed with a revolving door of Vince Carter types. I know that one season was positive (until the awful Rondo trade), but overall, that was basically a decade of wheel spinning. 

Then, when they finally did decide to do a reboot (with Dirk still on the roster), they got DSJ and then Luka/Brunson in consecutive seasons. Obviously, the Luka/Brunson draft was a home run for the franchise. The problem is that when teams tank, they usually don't find a guy like Luka so quickly. It would have been easier on them going forward if they had been in possession of 3-4 "almost" lottery players (better than DSJ, but not on Luka's level). Because they landed on Luka too quickly (I get how ridiculous of a thought that is) they just didn't have the young lottery assets around that most rebuilding teams have when it's time to build around the 1-2 guys they decide are the future.  

The Mavs only had DSJ, and for what it's worth, they used him in a trade that I felt at the time wrung every last drop of value out of him possible. But then, their wad was spent, and that move was unsuccessful as we know now. 

The Mavs have shown they are VERY competent (better than most teams, imo) when it comes to finding and developing role players. Even those "stuck in the mud" seasons featured guys like Brandan Wright. That they have turned Kleber and DFS (both undrafted) into the winning contributors they are today speaks volumes about the organization, imo.

I was on board for the cap room swings (which made me the target of quite a bit of snark around here), but they failed to use that period of huge flexibility to positive effect. Since they seem boxed in right now (even more so now that Brunson is bouncing for nothing or next to nothing), what has me waking up in a cold sweat at night is the persisting thought that their next plan will be to strip down and try cap space again. They could easily get major cap space for 2024, but the problem is that outside of Paschal Siakim there doesn't seem to be a prize worthy of going that route. 

This is a pickle, any way you look at it. If only they just retained Jalen Brunson, my outlook would be completely different right now.

(07-08-2022, 12:52 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]one of the things the Mavs did very, very wrong, imho, was how they tanked.

PREACH! PREACH! PREACH!

Terrible, terrible, terrible stuff by the MBT from 2015-2020. I blame RC for not losing some key, key games that could have changed the direction of the franchise AND Donnie/Cuban for not stockpiling picks and instead relentlessly trying to get to the playoffs when the writing was on the wall.

(07-08-2022, 12:38 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]That's my point. 

I am just tired of hearing that the Mavs have junk and no assets and nothing the league wants to make a trade. That is correct if you mean, "Nobody wants the Mavs bottom five players for their starter." (even though the Mavs just DID that by the way....)

To get good players you generally have to give good players and/or 1st round picks. So if we want the Mavs to trade for an impact starter we need to realize the CW trade will be the exception not the rule and need to be ready to let go of one or more of the current top 7 Mavs.

All that's relevant as a general point. It doesn't change the fact that you were alluding to, not "one of our top seven," but our number two player, for freaking Kyrie Irving, a move as uproariously damaging as losing Brunson for nothing. That's not an example to throw out there if you want people to listen (although I've already been betrayed by Killer here).

(07-08-2022, 12:59 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]you were alluding to, not "one of our top seven," but our number two player, for freaking Kyrie Irving

That wasn't at all what I was communicating (sorry for the confusion). I was responding specifically to the claim that the Mavs could not make any deals because they have garbage for assets. 

I would never trade DFS for Kyrie unless I am getting 1sts back as well.

(07-08-2022, 12:58 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/FredKatz/status/1545465400489492480

I guess I'm the only one, but I still think the tampering thing should be leverage for the Mavs under the watchful eye of the league. I understand that the Knicks want to get something back from the Mavs. They are getting something back - Jalen Brunson. To me, if this ends up not being an SnT, with something favorable beyond the TPE going to the Mavs, not the Knicks, it speaks direly poorly of Nico's abilities as a negotiator.

(07-08-2022, 01:02 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]To me, if this ends up not being an SnT, with something favorable beyond the TPE going to the Mavs, not the Knicks, it speaks direly poorly of Nico's abilities as a negotiator.

Disagree. SnT is not a "must" in my mind at all. NYK already has all the leverage in the situation and paid to clear space.

(07-08-2022, 01:01 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]That wasn't at all what I was communicating (sorry for the confusion). I was responding specifically to the claim that the Mavs could not make any deals because they have garbage for assets. 

I would never trade DFS for Kyrie unless I am getting 1sts back as well.

OK - we're on the same page.

(07-08-2022, 01:04 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Disagree. SnT is not a "must" in my mind at all. NYK already has all the leverage in the situation and paid to clear space.

Like I say, I must be the only one here who sees things this way. We'll agree to disagree, and I guess there's no point in me raising the issue again if no one else sees it as a valid position as seems to be the case.

(07-08-2022, 12:52 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I was on board for the cap room swings (which made me the target of quite a bit of snark around here)

Next one that mentions powder, Giannis or Jokic in the same sentence should get a life time ban. Compared to my rants during those years this years free agency rage was harmless.