MavsBoard

(11-18-2022, 11:02 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I've seriously lost hope on the Mavs making good roster choices with how Cuban has continued to refuse to hire a GM with elite GM skills in negotiating and evaluating.

FIFY

(11-18-2022, 01:12 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Atlanta wants to use Collins to get better.  So, they aren’t taking our junk.

The reason a Hayward trade might work is he’s a big dollar injury prone guy who no longer fits his team’s timeline.  The main two things about this for Dallas is getting out of the Hardaway mistake a year earlier and getting that third creator (doesn’t have to be a pg to be a creator).  Hayward would also be a big expiring contract to be used in a summer trade or at the 2023 TDL.

I don’t see a place for Rozier here if Hayward is incoming.  I’d rather focus on a mobile big who can hit threes and play some D.  Washington (and to a lesser extent Jones) provides that.  Washington could also be potentially helpful in a big summer trade.  How can we make a deal that sets up the next deal while keeping us competitive in the near term should be the focus.

Wood.        Powell
PJ-Wash.    Maxi
DFS.          Green
Hayward.   Luka or Hayward
Luka.         SD

I love this trade and have been wanting PJ Washington for a long time but the one thing I would point out in this hypothetical is that I would assume Wood stays on the bench and Green starts with either PJ or Maxi starting as the lone big.  We still need to replace Bullock's defense at the point of attack in the starting lineup, which is why I think Green would be that guy.  Frank would probably play a lot more minutes (which you noted in a previous post) behind DFS and I think Powell would end up being the odd man out and would be used as a change of pace sort of center.  The real question around all of this is the value of Bullock/Hardaway and whether we would need to add some seconds or Hardy.

The entire time typing this all I could think is "man Javale McGee really just stole 17 mil from us".

(11-18-2022, 11:34 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]... very surprised at all the Hayward hate.  Lots of folks wanting play making from the wing position but not being honest with themselves about how short a list of NBA players that is and Hayward is on it.  He's a passable and smart defender as well.  If you can get him while still saving first round picks for this offseason you absolutely do it.

If he's almost always healthy and playing, your take is a good one. But he's not.

On paper, Hayward is a desirable player - playmaker with some size, and plays both ends of the floor. But --- Gotta recognize (and admit) that Hayward is VERY unreliable as to whether he will suit up for games. Including whether he can make it through a season and give you a single minute in the playoffs.

Combine that with the fact that he's getting paid a ton of your payroll - which then sits idle in street clothes, during which time you are getting NO playmaking at all from him - and it saps his value.

(11-18-2022, 11:37 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Morey to all 30 teams:  Hey, are you interested in Tobias?

All GM's:  No

Shams: Sixers in discussions with teams about Tobias.

There's so much truth in this ^

Feels like there is a lot of grass is always greener on the other side with Collins here. Collins can't create for himself, and has to be even more involved compared to Wood. Lobs/PnR etc. pp

You might look at more Luka usage with Collins compared to Wood. ISO Wood > ISO Collins. Post up Wood > Post up Collins


Collins: 17.6 % of his FGM are unassisted
Wood: 32.9 % of his FGM are unassisted


Last season:

Collins: 17.1 % of his FGM are unassisted 
Wood: 32.3 % of his FGM are unassisted


Collins for Wood is a lateral move at best. Feels like Wood is a little underrated, and Collins overrated. And moving Maxi who would make things work with Collins, as well as making things work with Wood seems like a terrible idea. Maxi still remains the most unique player on the Mavs roster. I don't see any replacement for him.
Good defensive 5 with a bit of rim protection, who is elite at defending the perimeter rarely exist in the NBA. He is the easist plug and play big on the roster, and works with literally anyone.

I love, love, love Hachimura.  THT style love. Be weary.

(11-18-2022, 02:44 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]FIFY

Kidd may wind up being an awful hire after a great first year.  Time will  tell.  But I just feel some are setting him up to be the boogie man with everything wrong with this team.   I don't buy that...yet.   I think these decisions are much more complicated than that.   My hope is Nico would build the team to his vision and be good at it.   Others said he was not that type of hire.  It is looking like that may be the case.  If this is true then we are back to where we were previously where Cuban listens to different people and we seem to be all over the place in roster building.  Not a winning strategy.  Sooner or later another Bob V will enter the picture.

(11-18-2022, 02:51 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]If he's almost always healthy and playing, your take is a good one. But he's not.

On paper, Hayward is a desirable player - playmaker with some size, and plays both ends of the floor. But --- Gotta recognize (and admit) that Hayward is VERY unreliable as to whether he will suit up for games. Including whether he can make it through a season and give you a single minute in the playoffs.

Combine that with the fact that he's getting paid a ton of your payroll - which then sits idle in street clothes, during which time you are getting NO playmaking at all from him - and it saps his value.

I agree it's definitely high risk high reward but I feel that worst case scenario is us having a 30 mil expiring on our roster to pair with all our draft picks next offseason which was always going to be when this front office was going to take a big swing.

I see this as one of the few ways we can raise this team's ceiling without sacrificing draft picks, I just don't see a lot of paths to add play making to this roster with our current assets without being wildly irresponsible.

Also if you are able to get PJ Washington you basically found a Maxi clone so you can now keep a switchable big on the floor at all times.

I keep going back to the idea that Sacramento would not mind dumping Holmes...
This trade ends up as a 4 way deal in order to facilitate paying off Phoenix to take McGee (legal otherwise as a stand alone, but with Dallas paying $5 million)

Dallas trades McGee to PHX for Jae Crowder. Difference in overall $$ is about 5 million and everyone kicks cash to make it happen
Dallas trades Powell to Sacramento to Holmes and Sacto sends $1.75 million to PHX for a 2nd rd pick: Sacto saves about $23 million 
Dallas trades THJ, Bertans, Pinson, and Frank to Charlotte for Hayward and Rozier. Charlotte sends $1.75 mil to PHX for a 2nd rd pick; Dallas sends Charlotte 3 2nd rd picks, and the right to 2 1st rd pick swaps.

(11-18-2022, 04:12 PM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: [ -> ]I keep going back to the idea that Sacramento would not mind dumping Holmes...
This trade ends up as a 4 way deal in order to facilitate paying off Phoenix to take McGee (legal otherwise as a stand alone, but with Dallas paying $5 million)

Dallas trades McGee to PHX for Jae Crowder. Difference in overall $$ is about 5 million and everyone kicks cash to make it happen
Dallas trades Powell to Sacramento to Holmes and Sacto sends $1.75 million to PHX for a 2nd rd pick: Sacto saves about $23 million 
Dallas trades THJ, Bertans, Pinson, and Frank to Charlotte for Hayward and Rozier. Charlotte sends $1.75 mil to PHX for a 2nd rd pick; Dallas sends Charlotte 3 2nd rd picks, and the right to 2 1st rd pick swaps.

Nice thoughts.  I am not sure PHX would have any interest in McGee.   Don't they know have 3 competent centers?

I like the Holmes idea.  Although I have no idea if he has just fallen out of favor or fell off a cliff.  Regardless, Kings are on a run right now and they may not want to do anything at the moment.   

I do expect Charlotte to do something.  I would factor in saving money high on their wish list with Jordan.   I am not sure Mark is going to be willing to take on more salary.   I also wouldn't use pick swaps in any deal with Charlotte.

Frank to Minny for Naz Reid.   Minny gets a bench defender and Mavs get a bench big man if McGee is a lost cause.

(11-18-2022, 04:12 PM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: [ -> ]I keep going back to the idea that Sacramento would not mind dumping Holmes... .

The idea that SAC would let you have Holmes is accurate. In fact, I bet they'd bring him to you and kiss you on the mouth, if you'd take him off their hands.

But "he's easily available" and "his team doesn't want to keep him" doesn't mean you should want him. To be fair, he was certainly one of my own "what-if's" when the season ended, and before they got Wood. Prior summers too, when I thought the Mavs could have gotten him, and they showed almost no interest.

But sometimes the best deal you make is the one you DON'T do.

What is his appeal, other than SAC will certainly love for you to take him and that contract? He's almost no threat on offense, and not sure he offers much D either. I don't see him play, but I also think there's reason to suspect he's dealing with some age/injury hindrance, where maybe he doesn't move as well, as his per-36 numbers are down considerably and SAC has him around 10th or 11th in the rotation.

My (favorite) trade. Received down votes on reddit 

THJ/Bertans/1st/(Hardy) for Conley/Clarkson


Why?

- 3rd playmaker
- leadership with Conley
- shot creation unassisted
- get rid of junk

Why not?

- Conley is old. Too old?
- losing Hardy, if one 1st is not enough
- No one offered a 1st for Conley, which is good i guess


What's the issue Mavs fans have been crying about? The loss of Brunson. Usage here, usage there. Someone who can score without the help of Luka or SD?

I still think the Mavs miss Brunson scoring ability way more than his playmaking. Tho this trade has the potential to fix both issues. Or at least should improve both situations by a lot.

This trade gives Conley for playmaking, Clarkson for iso scoring. Both have decent advanced stats as well. Conley basically leads Utah in most advanced stats.


- Half of Clarkson FG makes are unassisted. Only 18 % of THJ scores are unassisted.
- Luka is at 90 % (leading the league), SD at 66 %. Thats about it
- Brunson is currently at 74 % and was 63.6 last season
- Conley is at 40.7 % and was ~ 60 % last season
- Clarkson is roughly at 50 %

Trade fixes a 3rd playmaker, improves shot creation because both should immediately have the 3rd and 4th best unassisted values on the Mavs, at least on paper.

Conley also gives major leadership vibes, which the Mavs are lacking. No offense Luka. But it felt like Brunson was prolly much more of a leader than Luka.

(11-18-2022, 05:29 PM)sefant Wrote: [ -> ]THJ/Bertans/1st/(Hardy) for Conley/Clarkson

I have zero doubt that this trade would be great for this season, and maybe next, but in the Mavs' current circumstances I think the cost in terms of long term asset building is too great. 

It's a shame they've been so mismanaged, because if times weren't so tight this is exactly the kind of trade that would make sense.

(11-18-2022, 05:29 PM)sefant Wrote: [ -> ]My (favorite) trade. Received down votes on reddit 

THJ/Bertans/1st/(Hardy) for Conley/Clarkson

Am I crazy to think that Utah wouldn´t be interested. They give up the two best players in the deal and both incoming players have one additional year on their contract. Hardy + 1st probably isn´t enough compensation.

(11-18-2022, 07:21 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Am I crazy to think that Utah wouldn´t be interested. They give up the two best players in the deal and both incoming players have one additional year on their contract. Hardy + 1st probably isn´t enough compensation.

I suppose this would hinge on Ainge's opinion of how improved the Mavs would be with Conley and Clarkson. If he thinks the pick will be a late one, he might want more. But, seeing as we know almost for sure they've been dangling those guys for weeks we can reasonably assume neither player alone is worth a 1st on the market, I'd think?

(11-18-2022, 06:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I have zero doubt that this trade would be great for this season, and maybe next, but in the Mavs' current circumstances I think the cost in terms of long term asset building is too great. 

It's a shame they've been so mismanaged, because if times weren't so tight this is exactly the kind of trade that would make sense.

I don't see Cuban as a long-term asset thinker.

(11-18-2022, 05:29 PM)sefant Wrote: [ -> ]THJ/Bertans/1st/(Hardy) for Conley/Clarkson

......


What's the issue Mavs fans have been crying about? The loss of Brunson. Usage here, usage there. Someone who can score without the help of Luka or SD?

I still think the Mavs miss Brunson scoring ability way more than his playmaking. Tho this trade has the potential to fix both issues. Or at least should improve both situations by a lot.

I agree that those are two big issues, and that JB was incredibly valuable because he fixed both of them. But I don't think this trade has any real potential to being a real fix to what's missing.

The VALUE with JB was that you put one player on the floor, and you solved both issues, playmaking and scoring. OTOH if you add two different players to address those issues, that means you have to take two other players out of the lineup to address what JB solved all by himself (leaving a different issue that is no longer covered). Or, if you rotate them, you will ALWAYS lack either playmaking or scoring, depending on who is playing and who is sitting.

Platoon basketball - where you employ players who solve one need for you, and those who solve the other, but no one who can solve both - creates the problem of how you then aren't well rounded enough to get enough done, since you only have 5 players. The trick is to get MULTI-skilled players on the floor at the same time in bunches, rather than having a team full of one trick performers.