(09-14-2022, 08:55 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...9739447297
Unfortunately, this is the most likely scenario. If you add all three guys to Lakers they suddenly become very dangerous for a season. Ainge is going to want both firsts which could be crazy valuable after the Lakers break apart.
(09-15-2022, 09:33 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately, this is the most likely scenario. If you add all three guys to Lakers they suddenly become very dangerous for a season. Ainge is going to want both firsts which could be crazy valuable after the Lakers break apart.
I just can’t see LA giving up both picks. It would cripple them if Lebron leaves(which he has publicly said he will do). Also, the Jazz players and no other available players make them a contender anyways
The smart move would be to hold onto Westbrook and keep the assets. Sign Kyrie with the space and give up on the year before it starts
Or find some way to make a mega deal where LA takes on all the worthless expiring contracts and only gives up 2nds
(09-15-2022, 12:39 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]The smart move would be to hold onto Westbrook and keep the assets. Sign Kyrie with the space and give up on the year before it starts
If by "hold onto Westbrook" you mean buy him out or release him instead of giving up assets to trade him, I think that's exactly what I'd do were I in their shoes.
If you can get reasonably usable players by trading him without giving up the picks, great!
(09-15-2022, 12:48 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]If you can get reasonably usable players by trading him without giving up the picks, great!
That would be analogous to the Mavs trading Bertans for KD, when you throw in the "trading with Ainge" factor.
The only way the Lakers will be able to get back anything more advantageous in the moment than WB in trade is by trading picks.
(09-15-2022, 12:52 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]That would be analogous to the Mavs trading Bertans for KD, when you throw in the "trading with Ainge" factor.
The only way the Lakers will be able to get back anything more advantageous in the moment than WB in trade is by trading picks.
I don't know...maybe there's a package of Bertans-level players they can get from some team who tricks themselves into thinking Westbrook can help them. Never say never.
(09-15-2022, 12:39 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Also, the Jazz players and no other available players make them a contender anyways
I'm not so sure about that. AD/Lebron/Bojan/Beverly/Conley/Clarkson looks like a contender to me if everyone can stay healthy (a big if). We have seen Lebron's power over organizations in the past (including that terrible trade for Russ). I'm curious how it plays out.
(09-15-2022, 09:33 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately, this is the most likely scenario. If you add all three guys to Lakers they suddenly become very dangerous for a season. Ainge is going to want both firsts which could be crazy valuable after the Lakers break apart.
Yes I think that's the discussion (
Conley-Clarkson-Bogey for Westbrook-2 unprotected 1sts).
Lakers are weighing whether it's worth 2 unprotected 1sts (ie, their future) to become "competitive for a title this season." Along with the difference it would make this season, they would also get the opportunity to re-sign Clarkson and Bogey going forward, and/or use them as trade fodder at some point, thereby extending their time to be competitive.
I think Lakers need to pull the trigger and give up the picks. Lebron isn't getting any younger. But it's not an easy call. Meanwhile, the clock is ticking down - the highest value is to get those players into the mix pronto, with a full camp and also some of the pre-camp work.
It's possible they have hopes to do with RW what Mavs seem to be doing with THJ/Bertans -- ie, see if they can elevate their trade value by what is shown during the season. But I don't have any expectation that the trade market for him will increase, and there's always the risk UT trades elsewhere and then the Lakers get stuck holding the Old Maid when the game ends.
(09-15-2022, 12:48 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]1 If by "hold onto Westbrook" you mean buy him out or release him instead of giving up assets to trade him, I think that's exactly what I'd do were I in their shoes.
2 [Then, sign Kyrie, JT opined.]
3 If you can get reasonably usable players by trading him without giving up the picks, great!
I don't think 3 is a realistic option for LA. I can't envision why another team would do that. LA won't want bad multi-year contracts, and RW is not in demand at all, so how does LA compensate for what they want to get.
I like 1, in theory -- just let the clock run out on RW, then start again w/o paying to get rid of RW -- but in reality it's not so enticing. One problem with it is that the buyout doesn't make your team better, it just sends RW home. You don't get any opportunity to sign other talent in his place, because his salary is still on the cap sheet. The other problem is that when he falls off the cap sheet in 2023, you still don't get enough cap freedom to do enough to change the team. 25-30M might get you 1-2 average-to-good players (players like Kuzma and KCP and Harrell), but not a star.
That ties into 2, where "they can sign Kyrie in 2023" sounds like a thing, but it probably doesn't work. The issue is that it would take Kyrie willing to accept a HUGE discount from a max. I don't think he would. That's why he wanted a trade to LA, because he wants more (max) money, not less.
(09-15-2022, 12:48 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]If by "hold onto Westbrook" you mean buy him out or release him instead of giving up assets to trade him, I think that's exactly what I'd do were I in their shoes.
If you can get reasonably usable players by trading him without giving up the picks, great!
I actually mean keep him. It will be an embarrassing season for them and they actually need him to be more competitive. The shame would be on Westbrook instead of Lebron. Buy him out doesn’t make anything better
The only trade that makes sense is with the Jazz taking on WB. But the lakers getting back garbage.
Jazz first agree to individual trades with their players. Then incorporate LA into it
PHX: Bojan
DAL: Conley and Crowder
DET: Hardaway
UTA: Westbrook and Green
PHX FRP and 2nd’s,
2nd’s from DAL and DET,
2nd’s and a 1st rd pick swap with LAL
LAL: Powell, Saric, Kemba Walker, Noel, Gay, Alexander-Walker
The money lines up. LAL get trash that’s better than WB
(09-15-2022, 12:54 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know...maybe there's a package of Bertans-level players they can get from some team who tricks themselves into thinking Westbrook can help them. Never say never.
Bertans and Fournier types yes they could trade for bad multi year deals with no FRP’s attached but then it takes them out of contention next year too. It really only makes sense for them to take on expiring or free to move contracts like that Clarkson player option
(09-15-2022, 05:49 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Buy him out doesn’t make anything better
Oh, I disagree vehemently. Addition by subtraction, particularly because there's so much baggage leftover from last season.
(09-15-2022, 01:18 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not so sure about that. AD/Lebron/Bojan/Beverly/Conley/Clarkson looks like a contender to me if everyone can stay healthy (a big if). We have seen Lebron's power over organizations in the past (including that terrible trade for Russ). I'm curious how it plays out.
Maybe you’re right and that puts them in contention but it would also probably lock them into having that same team again the following season. You would be sacrificing the Kyrie possibility and 2 rebuilding years unprotected FRP’s for that squad. Probably best case scenario for Lebron until he leaves. I wouldn’t want the mavs to do it if we were in their shoes
(09-15-2022, 05:54 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Oh, I disagree vehemently. Addition by subtraction, particularly because there's so much baggage leftover from last season.
I should have added buy him out doesn’t make anything better for Lebron…….. Lebron, AD, Beverley and scrubs is a lotto team too IMO because 0%. chance none of them miss time. Someone would have to take the blame in the media. Who would that be without WB? They already played the “fire the coach” card too
(09-15-2022, 06:03 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]You would be sacrificing the Kyrie possibility and
I don't think there's any realistic "Kyrie possibility" for LA anyhow, if they keep RW. Kyrie wants to be paid.
Once you realize that, it becomes a real factor in assessing what options LA has, and how LA might plan.
I said it before but if I were LA and Davis is healthy and playing well going into the TDL, I'd cash out on him and then offer to move LeBron to his destination of choice.
(09-15-2022, 05:49 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]I actually mean keep him. It will be an embarrassing season for them and they actually need him to be more competitive. The shame would be on Westbrook instead of Lebron. Buy him out doesn’t make anything better
The only trade that makes sense is with the Jazz taking on WB. But the lakers getting back garbage.
Jazz first agree to individual trades with their players. Then incorporate LA into it
PHX: Bojan
DAL: Conley and Crowder
DET: Hardaway
UTA: Westbrook and Green
PHX FRP and 2nd’s,
2nd’s from DAL and DET,
2nd’s and a 1st rd pick swap with LAL
LAL: Powell, Saric, Kemba Walker, Noel, Gay, Alexander-Walker
The money lines up. LAL get trash that’s better than WB
Yes and we pay the difference.
LA might find that team, but I really doubt it. Mostly because this team has to also pay Ainge.
But I hope it's not us.
On Zach Lowe's podcast they were discussing the Suns. The guest brought up three names he would have interest for the Suns:
*Myles Turner- I believe this was in addition to Ayton. I don't think this makes sense.
*Wendell Carter- Lowe thought Carter was too much of a center
*John Collins- Lowe thought this was a good name. He stressed Collins was not available now, but wondered if the Hawks had a disappointing start if this could change. He thought Collins would fit well with Ayton and others.
Lowe brought up Bogdanovich and Harrison Barnes. Lastly they brought up SGA and 4 picks and 3 pick swaps gets you into the conversation with almost anyone. What sort of hurts the Mavs is our star is 23, while the Suns leader, Paul, is 36. So unless a team wants to bet that Luka doesn't stay in Dallas, it may be viewed as a less desirable trade than other teams offering future picks.
(09-16-2022, 08:27 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]He stressed Collins was not available now
Probably because his value around the league does not equal what they want in return. They have shopped him at least three times.