(12-12-2022, 04:11 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]despite being on the trade block for 12 months.
Agree with your point, and I think it has probably been even longer.
Important to note that, because it seems to point to the idea that either A) he's not quite the impactful player many of us believe in the eyes of the league or B) the Hawks have been asking for way, way too much in return for him.
Either way, super bizarre for a player to be so overtly available for so long. They must
really not care about their relationship with him.
(12-12-2022, 02:46 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I actually prefer Wood, I think, but if Collins can be played 30+ minutes and finish games (in Kidd's mind) then I think it's easy to see how that trade would benefit the team, tbh.
And, the contract could be a positive or a negative, based on POV. It would mean the chance of losing him for nothing this summer goes away, which could be a great improvement over Wood, if the fit is good.
I would love Collins for Wood (and Bullock) for the express reasons you alluded to: 1) permanence, and 2) Kidd will actually play him.
I'm trying very hard to come up with a reason for some sorry ass team to take McShaqtin off of our hands...
It's likely the Mavs are the worst run team in the league.
(12-12-2022, 04:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]super bizarre for a player to be so overtly available so long
I think like KP and Luka didn't work, Trae and JC doesn't work. JC has not been nearly the player he was since Trae came along.
(12-12-2022, 04:45 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: [ -> ]It's likely the Mavs are the worst run team in the league.
The IIC wouldn't have it any other way.
*Idiots In Charge
(12-12-2022, 04:45 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I think like KP and Luka didn't work, Trae and JC doesn't work. JC has not been nearly the player he was since Trae came along.
I think the Hawks are slowly coming to the realization that Trae might not be the guy to build around. It´s hard to compensate for his defensive short comings when he is great on offense. So far he is shooting 41% from the field and 29% from 3.
They beat the Bucks and Nuggets when he was out and Murray was running the show. Looked like a completly different team on defense.
Reading the Hawks reddit board and one poster was saying no one is going to take Collins contract without attaching a pick. I am not sure if I agree and you know they Mavs will never be the team to get a pick in a trade. But if his value is really negative a Wood and McGee trade for Collins works out. The Hollinger rating has the Mavs losing 5 games in that trade.
(12-12-2022, 04:57 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Reading the Hawks reddit board and one poster was saying no one is going to take Collins contract without attaching a pick. I am not sure if I agree and you know they Mavs will never be the team to get a pick in a trade. But if his value is really negative a Wood and McGee trade for Collins works out. The Hollinger rating has the Mavs losing 5 games in that trade.
I'd do it. McShitter can be traded starting the 15th.
(12-12-2022, 05:53 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]https://old.reddit.com/r/AtlantaHawks/co..._pursuits/
Found this there pretty quickly:
"The thing is JC would probably have to play the same role on majority of teams because even though he’s been great at help defense and scoring in the low post, he still would be too little to play the 5 even though offensively playing Center fits him like a glove because he’s great at PnR. Still, teams would need him to be a stretch 4 and trading valuable guys for one who shoots 21% from the 3 rn and making 25Ms is not ideal."
I kind of agree with this. I'm a little worried that the best of Collins comes in the form of a smaller center, which doesn't appear to align with Kidd's plans. I honestly think the best course might be to keep Wood and try to play him in a smarter way. It might not work, but I'm not sure it comes with much more risk than Collins if they try to use him the way they're using Wood.
I have dropped Bullock in some proposed deals recently. The more I have thought about it, I will be surprised if he is in any deals (for the level of talent he will bring back). Rightfully or wrongly, I really think Kidd and the front office thinks the cheat code is Luka doing Luka things surrounded by shooters and defenders. While Bullock has not been good at either, I fully expect they will give him every chance to rebound as they think this is the formula they are trying to capture.
(12-12-2022, 06:26 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Found this there pretty quickly:
"The thing is JC would probably have to play the same role on majority of teams because even though he’s been great at help defense and scoring in the low post, he still would be too little to play the 5 even though offensively playing Center fits him like a glove because he’s great at PnR. Still, teams would need him to be a stretch 4 and trading valuable guys for one who shoots 21% from the 3 rn and making 25Ms is not ideal."
I kind of agree with this. I'm a little worried that the best of Collins comes in the form of a smaller center, which doesn't appear to align with Kidd's plans. I honestly think the best course might be to keep Wood and try to play him in a smarter way. It might not work, but I'm not sure it comes with much more risk than Collins if they try to use him the way they're using Wood.
Its interesting because we start Powell and he is not much bigger than Collins (inch taller and 5 pounds heavier). I think the issue is less about size and more about defense. I don't know if Collins is good enough for Kidd to start him as the lone big, but I think he is better than Wood defensively at both the 4 and the 5. I think he is more likely to start and get over 30 minutes because of that, although like Wood I think he would be at his best playing with Maxi.
(12-12-2022, 08:21 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I think he is more likely to start and get over 30 minutes because of that
I agree, but I think the times when he has looked best
offensively have been when he has played 5 with someone next to him like Hunter. I'm not saying he wouldn't get played more than Wood, just that I'm a little worried he wouldn't be the player some around here are hoping to acquire if he gets played like Wood is being played, more minutes or not. It seems like one of the major reasons he's available is that the Hawks have determined they A) don't want to play him at center and B) don't really like his game so much at the 4.
So many of these front court players who seem like offensive threats kind of need an athletic advantage to do their thing, imo.
(12-12-2022, 08:26 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I agree, but I think the times when he has looked best offensively have been when he has played 5 with someone next to him like Hunter. I'm not saying he wouldn't get played more than Wood, just that I'm a little worried he wouldn't be the player some around here are hoping to acquire if he gets played like Wood is being played, more minutes or not. It seems like one of the major reasons he's available is that the Hawks have determined they A) don't want to play him at center and B) don't really like his game so much at the 4.
So many of these front court players who seem like offensive threats kind of need an athletic advantage to do their thing, imo.
I would argue that his ideal situation (similar to Wood) would be paired with a stretch 5 like Maxi. The Hawks don't have a player like that to pair him with, and they are basically choosing the Capela/Okongwu route over Collins. The Mavs on the other hand, have a Maxi and don't have non shooting rim protecting center they have to play big minutes.
Even if Kidd feels the need to put Maxi in the starting lineup to pair/protect Collins, I think he will be more willing to let Collins play single big minutes against second units.
(12-12-2022, 08:40 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I would argue that his ideal situation (similar to Wood) would be paired with a stretch 5 like Maxi.
And I would still disagree with that argument, including its assessment of how Wood is being played NOW, so I'm not sure what the point is. When they play together, I think it's crystal clear that Wood is playing 5 more often than not, and I think the determining factor has more to do with matching in transition than it does with any system preference.
Either way, at the end of the day, if we're talking about a player who can ONLY play his BEST position when Kleber is on the floor, I think it's a pointless acquisition. The goal should be for your top 6-9 players (as deep as possible) to be interchangeable in a variety of ways to create different combinations/styles. THAT is "flexibility." This notion of certain guys being joined at the hip is basically just another way of saying you don't have the players you need to win.
(12-12-2022, 08:40 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I would argue that his ideal situation (similar to Wood) would be paired with a stretch 5 like Maxi. The Hawks don't have a player like that to pair him with, and they are basically choosing the Capela/Okongwu route over Collins. The Mavs on the other hand, have a Maxi and don't have non shooting rim protecting center they have to play big minutes.
Even if Kidd feels the need to put Maxi in the starting lineup to pair/protect Collins, I think he will be more willing to let Collins play single big minutes against second units.
And don't get me wrong, regardless of the semantic position debate, I don't disagree that Kleber is a better fit next to Collins (and Wood) than Capela, for example. That's specifically
because Collins and Wood both have games that fit much better as 5's in my opinion, but I do agree with you.
But, then people say "but hold on, you can only play Kleber 25 minutes a game!"
It's just not a road that leads to where I'm hoping they're going, as a fan.