Apply the gas
Juice the offer
Such completely nebulous reporting, left so vague as to appear to say a lot, without saying anything.
Isn't he basically saying nothing more than UT really wants NY to up their offer, and UT wants NY to get in a hurry and get desperate for a deal? But that's just basic truth, right? Seems like what we've known all along.
It sucks Ainge always gets his way.
In any case, in the aftermath of a Mitchell trade, I wonder if the Mavs can swoop in and be a 3rd team for Derrick Rose. I assume he'd be the odd guy out in a salary match. He's essentially on a 1 year deal.
Mavs can absorb his 14 mil relatively easily too.
(08-26-2022, 11:57 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs can absorb his 14 mil relatively easily too.
I would love to see Rose to Dallas - seems like a perfect fit to me. But not sure how they "absorb his 14 mil relatively easily" at this point, or in a way that would entice UT to slide him along to the Mavs.
(08-27-2022, 01:06 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]absorb his 14 mil relatively easily
I'm using relatively pretty loosely here. When a team is trying to trade at least 5 FRP as reported, plus trying to match/shed salary, the Mavs only needing to send out Powell+Frank is relatively easy in my mind.
Although I don't have much confidence in this front office being able to convince the parties at be that this is a win-win for everyone involved to get the deal done.
Mavs make sense as one of the teams in a Mitchell trade. Jazz want unprotected FRP’s. Mavs can make one of the NYK picks unprotected
NYK: Mitchell
DAL: Bojan
LAL: Rose, Bertans, Clarkson
UTA: Westbrook, RJ Barrett, Quickley, Josh Green, 4 unprotected FRP’s including Mavs 23, 1 LAL and 2 NYK…….plus 2 protected FRP from NYK and a SRP from each of LAL and DAL
Knicks and Mavs upgrade their roster. Jazz get a haul of picks and players. Lakers get usable players while dumping Westbrook for only one FRP
(08-27-2022, 10:59 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs make sense as one of the teams in a Mitchell trade. Jazz want unprotected FRP’s. Mavs can make one of the NYK picks unprotected
NYK: Mitchell
DAL: Bojan
LAL: Rose, Bertans, Clarkson
UTA: Westbrook, RJ Barrett, Quickley, Josh Green, 4 unprotected FRP’s including Mavs 23, 1 LAL and 2 NYK…….plus 2 protected FRP from NYK and a SRP from each of LAL and DAL
Knicks and Mavs upgrade their roster. Jazz get a haul of picks and players. Lakers get usable players while dumping Westbrook for only one FRP
I don't think LA does this. I think that Bertans contract is more negative to them than the Russ contract due to the extra year(s).
Its also too cheap for the Mavs. Not long ago we wanted to remove that protection to give us access to our picks for trading sooner. I realize the tables may have turned a bit on that, but I don't see that being big value. Other than that, we are sending out Green to get off Bertans contract. Nobody would do that straight up, and then we are getting Bojan on top of it. Too good to be true.
(08-27-2022, 10:59 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ] Lakers get usable players while dumping Westbrook for only one FRP
I don't think the other teams would let LA walk away with a deal like this -- if LA is going to get rid of RW and also get any usable player(s), it will cost them through the nose. "We gave up a FRP" isn't close to enough.
That's how these more-than-2-team swaps work -- even if they are getting something they like, each of the other teams in the deal also get diligent to ensure that NO TEAM will be walking away with the impossibly sweet end of the deal.
If Ainge is who we think he is, he's going to demand at least 4-5 FRP just for Mitchell to NY, then at least 2 for taking RW. The idea that you roll those into one deal where Ainge only gets 4 picks, I don't think it even gets to first base.
(08-27-2022, 12:39 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think LA does this. I think that Bertans contract is more negative to them than the Russ contract due to the extra year(s).
Its also too cheap for the Mavs. Not long ago we wanted to remove that protection to give us access to our picks for trading sooner. I realize the tables may have turned a bit on that, but I don't see that being big value. Other than that, we are sending out Green to get off Bertans contract. Nobody would do that straight up, and then we are getting Bojan on top of it. Too good to be true.
My biggest problem with that deal is that the Mavs don't get Rose. He's a perfect fit for the Mavs. And I'm assuming he would be less expensive for the Mavs than Bogey, which is even better.
(08-27-2022, 02:58 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]My biggest problem with that deal is that the Mavs don't get Rose. He's a perfect fit for the Mavs. And I'm assuming he would be less expensive for the Mavs than Bogey, which is even better.
I actually had the same thought. Rose makes more sense as a target from the standpoint of better fit and cheaper. I'm not really sure how to get there though. I don't think Bertans makes sense in this kind of trade because nobody wants that contract for 2+ years. Maybe Powell plus Frank plus protection removal?
The problem with targeting Rose is that he's 100% a Thibodeu guy. It's a pretty well known thing that Rose had to actually ask Thibs for a smaller role after his first year in NY, which when examined from a different angle means that Thibs would play him more if he could. I know we see them signing Brunson, looking at Mitchell, etc, and think that makes Rose expendable, but I don't know that we can assume Thibodeau sees it that way at all. I really don't remember seeing much (outside of salary matching speculation) that leads me to believe Rose has been shopped at all.
The guy Thibs seems to want to get rid of is IQ, which drives some of my Knicks fan friends crazy.
(08-27-2022, 05:33 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]The problem with targeting Rose is that he's 100% a Thibodeu guy. It's a pretty well known thing that Rose had to actually ask Thibs for a smaller role after his first year in NY, which when examined from a different angle means that Thibs would play him more if he could. I know we see them signing Brunson, looking at Mitchell, etc, and think that makes Rose expendable, but I don't know that we can assume Thibodeau sees it that way at all. I really don't remember seeing much (outside of salary matching speculation) that leads me to believe Rose has been shopped at all.
The guy Thibs seems to want to get rid of is IQ, which drives some of my Knicks fan friends crazy.
Could be true, and your take on Thibs is good.
However, Thibs may be stuck with reality, because NY's desire for an All-Star player is probably "Mitchell or bust." In such a deal, matching salary is an issue, UT won't want to accept multi-year crap (like Randle or Fournier), and Rose is the biggest expiring on the NY roster. When you look at the alternatives, Rose almost MUST be included.
I keep landing on a deal which has Rose (as expiring filler) as a given, and the negotiating points are: 1 the quantity/specifics of the pick package, and
2 which set of young players are included with Rose (out of Barrett, Toppin, Quickley, Grimes).
Anyone for a smaller deal of Graham for Powell straight up? Graham got beat out by Alvarado and is on a 3 year $11.5-12.5M deal so it is risky if he is what he showed last year. If he continues his trajectory from Cha? He could be a perfect fit off the bench.
(08-27-2022, 06:22 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Could be true, and your take on Thibs is good.
However, Thibs may be stuck with reality, because NY's desire for an All-Star player is probably "Mitchell or bust." In such a deal, matching salary is an issue, UT won't want to accept multi-year crap (like Randle or Fournier), and Rose is the biggest expiring on the NY roster. When you look at the alternatives, Rose almost MUST be included.
I keep landing on a deal which has Rose (as expiring filler) as a given, and the negotiating points are: 1 the quantity/specifics of the pick package, and
2 which set of young players are included with Rose (out of Barrett, Toppin, Quickley, Grimes).
Regardless of whether I think they (Randle/Fournier) are crap, there is no such thing as a bad contract for a Utah team clearly currently constructed to suck for the next 2-4 years. If Ainge can get an extra 1st round pick and/or Grimes for eating the bad contract of Fournier, he´ll take that over the expiring contract of Rose.
I think this is actually a pretty straight forward deal, if it happens.
Barrett/Fournier for Mitchell + picks.
This would leave the Jazz with max contracted RJ Barrett plus the rookies and literally nobody else in the summer of 2024. Everybody else (Bogdanovic, Conley, Fournier, Beasley, Clarkson, THT, Gay) expires.
I honestly don´t get why the Knicks are even considering this with the reported five first round picks. If Barrett takes another leap (like he has each season), you are looking at 23/7/4 next year. I´m not even sure I´d make the team better long-term with the straight up players deal.
Only way I´d give Utah the five first round picks is if I get to keep Barrett. Brunson + Mitchell + Barrett is at least a core I can point to.